Its like my Ti456 but with a fur coat and silk knickers.

It’s like my ti456 but three and a half times more expensive

Fixed that for you.

It is lovely, not even remotely what I would ever buy but then it’s not my bike. The only thing I would ‘chuckle’ at are the fun bolts on your CK rear hub. Like you’re ever going to need the extra security 😀
But they do look cleaner. Pain in the ass to get the wheel out though.

I’ll try to weigh it properly at the weekend. Certainly lighter than my Seven and that was 21.something lbs.

Harry Rowland knows his stuff, but you are right about the deviation from King’s recommendations. I’ll have a word and let you know.

The price thing is always going to be a difficult one to answer objectively as On One are fantastic value for money. Honestly, there is a certain amount of rarity and ’boutiqueness’ about the whole experience which partly justifies the price. IF are undoubtedly nicer built, nicer finished, nicer welded and offer customisation and a certain brand equity, but probably not three and a half times better at any of those things. That’s the point at which it all gets very subjective and difficult to justify the price difference.

The funbolts are a piece of cake to change the wheel. About 2 seconds longer than a QR, but I don’t do anything where that kind of time would matter. They do also look cleaner, they are lighter and cheaper than a QR. Many years ago I had a set of Control Tech allen key QRs which were basically the same principle.

Glad you like it!

Bob – I have a Pegoretti Responsorium (Columbus XCR stainless) and a Duende (Columbus Spirit). The Duende is currently in month 4 of what was promised to be a 4 week respray after changing the carbon fork for one of Dario’s steel forks. Dario can’t be rushed, but his paint is worth the wait. I’ll post when it arrives which should be next week. At the risk of this turning into a different thread (and I know some people think there are too many road bike threads on here) I got a grainy photo of the work in progress a few weeks back, but the forks hadn’t been done, or the red accents and logos applied. It is a pearl white ‘Guantanamo’ finish. Hand applied barbed wire over a pearl white base. The Responsorium is a ‘Ciavete’ (i.e. Dario goes a but mad with a paint brush and you get whatever turns out!).

As you can see, even a small volume manufacturer has to work in batches! OK, so there are only 2 of them (mine is nearest the camera), but both are subtly different. The other one is flat white, but I wanted the pearl white.

The price thing is always going to be a difficult one to answer objectively as On One are fantastic value for money. Honestly, there is a certain amount of rarity and ’boutiqueness’ about the whole experience which partly justifies the price. IF are undoubtedly nicer built, nicer finished, nicer welded and offer customisation and a certain brand equity, but probably not three and a half times better at any of those things. That’s the point at which it all gets very subjective and difficult to justify the price difference

It’s a fair point that probably most half decent hardtail frames are difficult to tell apart on a blind test, and tyres/pressures probably make more difference, but it’s missing the point. That IF is just a cracking example of the framebuilders art, it’s something I could never reproduce myself, and it would make as happy to look at as ride. I’d also almost certainly keep it for the rest of my life, so getting 20 years or so more hard use makes it look not so bad value. Even then I could probably hand it down to my kids and it’d still be a cracking bike.

I think my only caveat would be that mtb tech seems to change quicker than road (brake mounts, BBs etc) so for a ‘lifetime’ frame I’m actually considering a road bike rather than mtb. But that IF has made me wobble. Again.

Uh oh… my Marcelo’s a bit tatty (Baci paint) after a couple of crashes, car travel and a bit of chainsuck. Seed planted 🙂
I won’t be so crass as to ask how much it’s costing you, but I guess Dario’s not the most economical of options. I saw Roger’s Responsorium in the ‘f*** you’ paintjob – looked like the end result of feeding a child too many fizzy sweets. But in a good way. Maybe at the end of the season I’ll send it off.

Anyway, I digress… good luck with the paint!

Some of the things that may ‘date’ a frame for life:

1) Tapered headtube – makes sense in many respects, but looks fugly in titanium and I can’t feel the difference. The bolt through forks make more of a difference and are easy to change. The tapered headtube on some bikes is to provide a larger contact area for the adjoining tubes rather than make the forks stiffer necessarily, but there is no need to make titanium tubing any larger in diameter than it is.

2) BB30 – Definitely has its advantages, but I can’t flex the bb on this so don’t feel the need.

3) Integrated headset – Don’t see the point at all. Don’t need a low stack height and the King will probably outlive me!

4) Post Mount rear caliper – Definitely has its advantages, but an adapter does the trick.

I am sure there will changes over the years to come that nobody has yet to think of that will date it, but right now I am just enjoying riding it more than worrying about future obsolescence.

For sure, 5 year old FS designs look out of date now, but even 1 inch headtube late 1980’s hardtails share quite a bit in common with today’s breed. What dates them is rim braking (but disc brakes are here to stay), geometry (but suspension travel for an XC hardtail has settled at 100mm’ish) and headtube size (which may yet date the standard 1, 1/8 size on this one). Otherwise, a well made hardtail has a certain classic appeal.

Anyway, who am I kidding? I’ll have changed it well before it gets out of date, even if I have justified the expense as a bike for life!

walleater,the instruction manual that comes with the hub explains why they should be laced a certain way.

Indeed. I’ll let you know Harry’s answer.

To be fair, I sent the hubs to him without the instruction manual, so he built them the way he has built disc wheels for years rather than intentionally ignoring the instructions. I didn’t think that there would be anything specific about the hubs. Maybe there is something specific about the King hubs, but it will be interesting to see his response.

Wheel building is quite an art, and the finer details of elbows in/out and crossing overlap are a subtle but important mystery to me!

Yep the wheels have been built the way I would normally, but for King hubs the lacing on the front wheel leading spoke should be heads out on the disk side. Don’t think it meantions that for the rear hub though

Just looked again to make sure i hadnt jumped the gun yesterday. Nope, the blue and green doesnt work. Sorry. Swap them out for black asap

That’s one lovely bike.

Anytime you’re selling some (practically brand spanking) 2nd hand forks again, let me know! The Fox Float Xs I bought off you are still going well. Took a bit of dialling in, but they’re great on my steel Ht.

Glad to hear it! After a couple of years’ off, Fox have come back to the Terra Logic thing this year again. What goes around comes around!

I am sticking with the green. Largely for financial reasons, but also I kind of like it!

If i had the choice,i would have built them like this too! King want it their way though.Ive done it the opposite to what King have said in the past but never rectified the mistake for obvious reasons.Their way is deffo the way i would lace a king hub now though.. as if anything went pear shaped,you wont have the lacing issue haunting you in the future over something about the hub that might crop up. (maybe even something that has naff all to do with the lacing but also something they might use to get out of a warranty claim)

It would be good to hear what King has been doing warranty-wise Re: internal problems/spoke lacing.

Seriously though, this looks like my dream hardtail! I would love this to not only ride,but to look at.for hours!

I honestly can’t see it making such a huge difference. The grain of the aluminium can’t be that different from the outside to the inside of the flange, and I really don’t see how the force can be so different elbows in vs out, but as i mentioned earlier I don’t fully understand the subtleties of wheel building.

At the same time, King must be so specific for good reason, although I can’t see why they feel the need when nobody else does, and the stresses and loads are the same for every wheel.

At the same time, Harry knows his stuff, and I can only assume that he built them this way intentionally.

Oh, I don’t know! Think I’l just ride ’em and see!

Anybody else running King at the front with this way of building vs the King recommendation (or maybe you are all dead after a horrific front wheel collapse?!).

Wheel response from Harry:

The leading spoke is the one that takes the strain and this is better on the outside. I do what Shimano recommend as it makes sense to me. You get driving and braking on the rear and braking only on the front.

The leading spoke is obviously orientated in a different direction (as per Harry’s build on the photos) depending on whether it is on the drive or braking side at the rear, and at the front both sides are built for braking optimisation. A contrary argument to King, but equally convincing.

King make hubs, Harry builds wheels. I am prepared to trust the guy who has built TDF, World Cup and Olympic wheels!

I would be interested to understand what way round anybody else has them….

Theres a mixture out there.I have done shimano-style but also king-style too.Ive seen mostly shimano style elsewhere to be honest.

From King..

“The front ISO should be laced 3-or-more-cross with the rotor (left) side pulling spokes (relative to braking direction) heads out/elbows in (when laced 3-cross). The final cross of the pulling spoke must be on the outside so that, as braking force is applied, increased pulling spoke tension will pull the crossed spokes towards the center of the hub and away from the caliper. Lace the wheel symmetrically.”

Just ride it! Ive never seen any king flange fail.If you look around the pro dh bikes at world cups,you often see the same bikes built with lacing all differing from one bike to the next. They are probably building wheels as well as possible regardless of lacing pattern as they know the rim could be hammered after a few runs anyway!

Just ride it! Good advice. Think I’ll do just that. I really can’t see why King are so specific with their recommendations.