Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 130 total)
  • NEW Teachers pay.. one for TJ
  • bikemonkey
    Free Member

    My girlfriend is a primary school teacher and works hard – giving a lot of her own time in the evenings, weekends and in holidays.

    On balance, given the holidays, working out of hours and marking I’d say that she and I work as hard as each other – she with the difficulty of working with parents, me with the threat of redundancy.

    However, the starting salary, annual pay increases, general pay increase through thresholds and pension contribution far outweigh what I get.

    I wouldn’t do her job simply because I have no nurturing instinct or patience for kids, not because it’s too difficult or demanding.

    I think there are easier and more difficult jobs than teaching, but the “teaching is the hardest job / teaching is a vocation / teaching is poorly paid” lobby is vocal, especially the NUT.

    airtragic
    Free Member

    I think public sector pay in general is pretty good, speaking as a public sector employee. Yes, you’ll never earn as much as the highest paid in the private sector, but you’ll never earn as little as the lowest either. My job (RAF) has its good bits and bad bits, as long as the good outweigh the bad (and the pay is one of the good bits), I’ll stick around. I suspect teaching is the same.

    bullheart
    Free Member

    I love being a teacher.

    The workload can be extraordinary, but then that happens in all sectors. The holiday thing is a red herring; I spend four weeks planning in the summer, and with the further developments in curriculum planning, AfL and other such strands the work is constantly evolving.

    I suppose the thing I don’t get is, if the job is so well paid, with such great working hours and incredible holidays, why don’t all the naysayers on here become teachers? Surely its a win all round, right? ‘Piece of piss’ job for megabucks with tons of time off eh?

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    rkk01
    Free Member

    I suppose the thing I don’t get is, if the job is so well paid, with such great working hours and incredible holidays, why don’t all the naysayers on here become teachers? Surely its a win all round, right? ‘Piece of piss’ job for megabucks with tons of time off eh?

    Because I know I don’t have the aptitude to be in front of a class day in day out. That, and despite the hours, stress and demanding clients, I still get a buzz out of what I do

    Ming the Merciless
    Free Member

    Mrs Ming is a teacher(at a Primary), I reckon I have my real wife for about 3 weeks over summer, and maybe a week over Christmas and Easter; the rest of the time is filled with planning, reports, meetings, monitoring the kids performance(levels), dealing with stroppy parents who see school as a baby sitting facility or getting a severly understaffed social services to save a kid in danger, oh and a little bit of teaching.

    Also every change of teaching minister/government means a complete re-write on the way kids are taught either reverting to tried and tested old-skool methods or the latest scientific education breakthrough. It’s shite, they keep fiddling with the system, leave it alone and let the teachers teach. And precisely when in the teaching day are some of these new ideas supposed to be fitted in? is another hour in the day being created specially for the latest citizenship/social awareness/big society fad.

    Don’t get me started about Ofsted, if they had an insignia and badge it would be a gold skull & crossbones and lightning bolts.

    Seriously; TEACHING = DEATH by inches.

    The only real perk was good pension but I see the government is screwing that over, as my wife says she wants to go at 60 because by then she’ll be totally burnt out.

    Good grief, I’ve had a rant!

    aracer
    Free Member

    I suppose the thing I don’t get is, if the job is so well paid, with such great working hours and incredible holidays, why don’t all the naysayers on here become teachers? Surely its a win all round, right? ‘Piece of piss’ job for megabucks with tons of time off eh?

    Same reason I don’t become a popstar or premiership footballer.

    BillMC
    Full Member

    I’ve noticed that new entrants to teaching seem to be a bit less bookish but that’s down to how their cohort has been taught (including those that have gone into the private sector), not them as individuals. However I’ve seen countless mature entrants to teaching from the private sector who couldn’t keep the pace. We had a whizz bang guy this year coming from Coopers and he lasted two terms. If you’re serious, teaching involves long hours and stress but I’ve found it very rewarding. Kids are forever interesting and entertaining. Teaching’s taken got me to Australia for a year, a couple of conferences in Boston (partly funded by me and during the vac) and a teacher’s fellowship at Oxford. I’ve taught working class kids who’ve gone on to become barristers, academics, an M.P., doctors and indeed teachers. I like what I do but despair and get bored by the frequently ill-informed knockers.

    onehundredthidiot
    Full Member

    frequently ill-informed knockers

    tee-hee

    BillMC
    Full Member

    ill-informed [??l?n?f??md] ADJ [judgment, criticism]

    Your point is?

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    The thing thats so tiring about teaching compared to other jobs I’ve done is that when your in front of a class you have to perform. I have never been into school with a hangover for example from when the bell goes at 8.45-3.10 I hardly have the chance to stop for 5 mins. Not complaining and not botherd about the pay which is OK, although as someone who had a previous career and came into teaching at 30ish it was poor to start with and its only 4 years in I have got near to what I earnt in a frankly piece of piss Uni research job (although that had minimal job security).

    MSP
    Full Member

    ill-informed knockers

    What gets me about teachers, the police the NHS etc, is that they are ill-informed about the reality of working life for most of the UK. They see their roles as being especially difficult and hard, a viewpoint frequently re-enforced by government policy labelling them as key workers. They need to open their eyes, for a big portion of society working conditions and life quality has been gradually getting worse since the 80’s, they are just part of it.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    MSP have you ever been a teacher? Most teachers have done other things in my experience, of the 8 science teachers I work with currently only two havent had other careers.

    project
    Free Member

    MSP – Member

    ill-informed knockers

    What gets me about teachers, the police the NHS etc, is that they are ill-informed about the reality of working life for most of the UK. They see their roles as being especially difficult and hard, a viewpoint frequently re-enforced by government policy labelling them as key workers. They need to open their eyes, for a big portion of society working conditions and life quality has been gradually getting worse since the 80’s, they are just part of it.

    Posted 19 minutes ago # Report-Post

    Well said that man,the 3 types of job are so insular and so well protected by the unions or governmnet that they just float above redundancy, sacking, and being incompetent, they go on about how hard they work, yet get paid well, and finally it was THERE career choice, not some person working in an office who is now going to tell unemployed what job they need to do and how to get it , all as part of the new governmnet scheme to create profits for large companies, ofering back to work advice.

    missingfrontallobe
    Free Member

    Are the proposals that a student will achieve QTS before completing their course? If so, how, as they won’t have achieved the requirements?

    Any other job with a natioanlly recognised qualification (nursing as an example) couldn’t function in this manner, besides what happens when those north of the border get £10K for their last year in university and then get a job working south of the border, would their pay still be halved or would they earn £30k in two years, one of which was while they completed their training.

    BillMC
    Full Member

    In schools we teach, amongst other things, about conditions of service, standards of living, in/security at work, anti-union legislation, the widening health and wealth gap etc etc. We are acutely aware of these things. Do you really think workers in the state sector are protected from speed-ups, redundancies, pay cuts, pension cuts? Ever thought of taking an interest in current affairs?

    MSP
    Full Member

    My brother is a teacher, he used to be a comms engineer, but he finds the work life balance of being a teacher is better than his previous career, he is also better paid now, so he doesn’t complain about his lot. My mother was also a teacher, but times have changed since then, I think it really was a relatively easy job back then.

    I don’t believe that teaching is an easy life, but I also don’t believe its any harder a life than many other jobs, its the belief from within the profession that it is that I find quite ill informed.

    easygirl
    Full Member

    especially the police, they swan about in their fast cars, eating do-nuts, thrashing innocent young kids
    sack em all i say , and let us take care of ourselves.how hard can it be to stop a street robber

    gonefishin
    Free Member

    and finally it was THERE career choice

    their

    Oh and relatively speaking teaching isn’t a well paid profession when compared with other graduate professions such as Doctors and Lawyers. I get paid significantly more than my parents, both of whom were teachers, ever did. Not for all the rice wine in china would I want to do that job.

    project
    Free Member

    BillMC – Member
    In schools we teach, amongst other things, about conditions of service, standards of living, in/security at work, anti-union legislation, the widening health and wealth gap etc etc. We are acutely aware of these things. Do you really think workers in the state sector are protected from speed-ups, redundancies, pay cuts, pension cuts? Ever thought of taking an interest in current affairs?

    Posted 5 minutes ago # Report-Post

    All learnt from books or the internet, without actually having any experience of real life, it appears.

    oh na d the answer is YES.

    MSP
    Full Member

    Oh and relatively speaking teaching isn’t a well paid profession when compared with other graduate professions such as Doctors and Lawyers.

    From the CPS careers website

    The starting salary for legal trainees is £18,425 (national pay rate) or £19,441 (London base rate) award pending.

    miketually
    Free Member

    What gets me about teachers, the police the NHS etc, is that they are ill-informed about the reality of working life for most of the UK

    Yeah, because we don’t know anyone who does anything other than teach 🙄

    gonefishin
    Free Member

    The starting salary for legal trainees is £18,425 (national pay rate) or £19,441 (London base rate) award pending.

    and the average salary once qualified…?

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Takes deep inhale as project attacks public sector workers …how many of you real world private sector folk are at work posting now? Ah the real world eh
    I think teachers just want people to realise it is not a PT job with short hours and long holidays as many ill informed people think.
    many jobs are hard but the public sector is not some land where everyone does nothing all day long except post on the internet
    I suspect most daytime prolific posters on here are private sector employees
    EDIT:
    Income

    Salaries during pupillage are at least £10,000 a year.
    In the first few years of practice, earnings can be anywhere between £25,000 and £200,000 a year, depending on specialism and reputation.
    Salaries in the Crown Prosecution Service are between £28,000 and £60,000.
    Top earnings in private practice can reach £750,000 a year or more.

    BillMC
    Full Member

    ‘Real life’? Deary me, is there really a parallel universe? Is the answer really 42?

    onehundredthidiot
    Full Member

    Ironically someone who appears to be ill-informed about the roles that these people do claims they are ill-informed about the real world. Sorry but teachers/NHS workers/police live more in “the real world” than you do in their world.

    Put the Daily Mail down and listen to people who do the jod. I mean actually talk to a real person not rely on people that have an axe to grind (plenty of them on both sides of the fence).

    Oh and i’m a private sector worker in a public sector role.

    project – Member

    MSP – Member

    ill-informed knockers

    What gets me about teachers, the police the NHS etc, is that they are ill-informed about the reality of working life for most of the UK. They see their roles as being especially difficult and hard, a viewpoint frequently re-enforced by government policy labelling them as key workers. They need to open their eyes, for a big portion of society working conditions and life quality has been gradually getting worse since the 80’s, they are just part of it.

    Posted 19 minutes ago # Report-Post

    Well said that man,the 3 types of job are so insular and so well protected by the unions or governmnet that they just float above redundancy, sacking, and being incompetent, they go on about how hard they work, yet get paid well, and finally it was THERE career choice, not some person working in an office who is now going to tell unemployed what job they need to do and how to get it , all as part of the new governmnet scheme to create profits for large companies, ofering back to work advice.

    BermBandit
    Free Member

    Isn’t the point here the fact that we need our teachers to be highly qualified, competent and well motivated people. They are after all whats shaping the future for us all whether we like it or not.

    Surely cutting their pay by 50% is devaluing is demotivating, let alone the constant buggering about that goes on with the curriculum every time you get a new half wit like Gove in.

    MSP
    Full Member

    Isn’t the point here the fact that we need our teachers to be highly qualified, competent and well motivated people.

    My point would be its bad to just highlight certain professions to be “highly qualified, competent and well motivated” those criteria are required in all areas of life in order for society to advance, not just the select few that play well for the media.

    Stories of teachers unable to buy houses in major cities makes headlines and garners political capital, stories of employees of water companies being unable to buy houses doesn’t. Both education and clean water and thousands of other things are required and important to the health and future of our kids, teachers don’t deserve special considerations, they deserve the same as everyone else.

    gonefishin
    Free Member

    Stories of teachers unable to buy houses in major cities makes headlines and garners political capital, stories of employees of water companies being unable to buy houses doesn’t.

    Children live in cities so it makes sense for schools to be located there and therefore teachers also. Water companies do not have to be based in cities, in fact I’d go as far as to say that locating a water company in a city is fairly stupid thing to do.

    MSP
    Full Member

    Oh FFS!

    Very little “has” to be in a city, but its a because society has largely moved into cities, that is where all the requirements are. Do you carry your water in a bucket from outside the city or does it come out of a tap in your kitchen? Most of the supply infrastructure needs to be close to where people live.

    BermBandit
    Free Member

    Most of the supply infrastructure needs to be close to where people live.

    Is that why they build nuclear power staions in the middle of nowhere?

    Anyway that wasn’t my point, my point is rather more selfish thatn that. This country needs to be successful into the foreseeable future, otherwise we won’t be able to pay for the frigging infrastructure wherever it is! So how does that happen?

    We educate properly and to the highest possible standards. Thats why its as important and in reality much more so than water supply systems, electricity or pretty much anything else in long term……. unless of course you aren’t worried about things like turning the place into a third world economy, the value of your pension, etc etc you know little things like that!

    druidh
    Free Member

    How many schools operate with zero electricity?

    BermBandit
    Free Member

    most of those in the third world apparently

    MSP
    Full Member

    Is that why they build nuclear power staions in the middle of nowhere?

    How about all the substations at the ends of streets, all cables down the roads and into every home, the fuseboxes and the plug points, the street lighting etc etc etc. Do you think its all done by pixies? You seem to fail to grasp the concept of how a city works. Turn the water off to London and education will become nothing but a dream the city will collapse into chaos in days.

    most of those in the third world apparently

    Do you really think those schools are churning out the calibre of students that would advance western society? They may be moving ahead of their parents education but they are generations behind the education being taught here.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    MSP, isnt electricity supplied by private companies? If a city wants it switched back on they will pay whats needed, they are also free to pay different amounts to people in different areas if they need to attract the right person.
    Teachers have National pay awards with a bit extra paid for London and the whole thing paid for by the tax payer. Its hardly a similar set of circumstances.

    MSP
    Full Member

    The city doesn’t pay, its the people who live in the city that pay, if a teacher can’t afford to live there think of all the other people who are essential to the running of the city that get paid less, how are they meant to pay it.
    I would say that the national pay award actually puts the teachers in a strong position, in most industries the employees have to compete against each other this means the employers have access to a market that actually does have to compete on price.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    have to compete against each other this means the employers have access to a market that actually does have to compete on price.

    That was my point. Anway its been nice but I make a point not to argue on the internet with idiots.

    5thElefant
    Free Member

    . I’ve taught working class kids who’ve gone on to become barristers, academics, an M.P., doctors and indeed teachers.

    4 successes out of 5 isn’t too bad I guess. 😀

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    so a teachers salary rises pro/rata with their tendency to talk to other adults in a dictatorial manner as if they were children.

    why do teachers do this? can’t they learn how to separate work and home life?

    gee
    Free Member

    In consider myself well paid for my job and experience. The problem is that at 29 years old I have reached the top of the pay scale and can only move up further if I go into leadership, which means less classroom teaching time. Classroom teaching is the fun part of the job, so not exactly a brilliant choice to have to make.

    I work 7am – 4pm every day, occasionally later in the evening marking and report writing. I also go in for at least a week during the summer holiday and spend another week on field trips during the holidays.

    It’s ok, just a bit rubbish long term. Plus you can’t ever get a cheap holiday.

    GB

    Clink
    Full Member

    ‘Job for life’? No more! I work in Somerset and I know staff are being made redundant in many secondary schools, including my own.

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