Im due a new Cotic 😀 …Anyone able to paste up (or provide a link) for the geo of the small?

Geek moment:

Soul Mk1 medium
590 ETT
424 reach
90 stem (85 extension)
675 ETT+stem
509 reach+stem

Soul Mk5 medium
636 ETT
458 reach
35 stem (32 extension)
668 ETT+stem

Soul mk 1 = narrowish bars 600-700mm
Soul mk 5 = 800mm+ bars

I think adding 20mm on bar width pulls you forward about the same as adding 10mm on stem length. So if I ride a 50mm stem with a 800mm bar and then switch to a 780mm bar I can put a 60mm stem on and it will feel roughly the same. That might be madness but in my head it works.

My Solaris Max is running a 50mm stem with 800mm bars. I’m 6’2” and the large feels just right. It is the first bike I’ve had that has felt long enough for a while.

My medium, last of the 26’ers, Soul felt perfect till I got a medium 17 Anthem, and that made the Soul feel short

Would people class the mk3 26″ soul as a short bike?

I’m 5’9 and I’ve got a medium mk3 with a 50mm stem and find the length perfect even for xc, I find it more comfortable than all the longer more xc bikes I’ve owned before even on 40-50 mile rides.

This latest one looks too long for my liking but I haven’t tried any of the modern geometry hardtails yet so would need to ride one rather than just look at it. I do prefer riding shorter bikes though.

^^^ I didn’t, at 5ft 10 and longish back I found the Medium, with a 70mm stem and 740 bars perfect for over 3 years. However once I updated my FS to a longer geometry I found swopping between them highlighted the differences, with the Soul feeling short. I know others have found similar when swopping between current longer bikes and those with more traditional geometry, not just the Soul.

I’m sure if I was only riding the Soul I’d still be on it, rather than having sold it a few days ago.

Without wishing to derail the thread had this Soul been in 26 and my 2012 wheels, forks would swap straight in I’d have just ordered one. As I have posted beofre all the 29 / 275 / tapered / boost etc etc has meant I have spent far less on bikes and stuff than I would have otherwise. Cost to change (not £700 but £2k+) is just too high 😐

I had an early Soul with the same geometry and IIRC a 60mm stem, maybe a 50. Did try it with 90 and it was orrible.

I had a Mk2 which I believe was the same geometry – rode it briefly with 670mm bars, 60mm stem and 100mm fork. Then years with 710, 50 and 140. Felt great until I got something much bigger!

Was just observing how (especially once you figure in bar width) the fit hasn’t changed much between the 2003 and 2017 versions, but the front wheel has moved much further forwards.

Somehow stumbled across the page for the new soul, regular navigation takes you to the old one though.

https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/soul

That is one loooooooong bike, but if they have kept the weight the same that is very impressive! Tempted to just get a frame and swap the bits off my T130 for winter use!

iainc – Member
^^^ I didn’t, at 5ft 10 and longish back I found the Medium, with a 70mm stem and 740 bars perfect for over 3 years. However once I updated my FS to a longer geometry I found swopping between them highlighted the differences, with the Soul feeling short. I know others have found similar when swopping between current longer bikes and those with more traditional geometry, not just the Soul.

I’m sure if I was only riding the Soul I’d still be on it, rather than having sold it a few days ago.

Been exactly my experience. Loved my Soul, but moving to longer FS bikes just changed my preferences. Trying to justify a new one now, even though I have no need for it whatsoever

Password protection came off the new Soul product page this morning… mailing list people have had all weekend to grab one of the handful of advance frames… now you can get one. Navigation will move from old model to new model later today…

Take back what I said about the look of it as it looks well in orange.

jambalaya – Member
Without wishing to derail the thread had this Soul been in 26 and my 2012 wheels, forks would swap straight in I’d have just ordered one. As I have posted beofre all the 29 / 275 / tapered / boost etc etc has meant I have spent far less on bikes and stuff than I would have otherwise. Cost to change (not £700 but £2k+) is just too high

Agree completely.

Have some 29’er wheels on another bike.
A small, rigid, qr, 2nd gen Solaris sounds like the pick of the bunch for me.
If I could guarantee the availability of decent, straight steerer forks I’d have a Mk1 Soul as well.

Considering that the new BFe (more affordable than the Soul) has stuck with 142 and that more BFe26 frames are planned for 2018, I think Cotic are doing far more than most to offer frames that can be built up with existing kit.

Agree with that too.

Cotic, along with Surly are shining examples of the few who genuinely take compatability and longevity seriously.

It wasn’t aimed at Cotic.
I like the products and the philosophy and I’ve never ridden a bad one.

Cotic, along with Surly are shining examples of the few who genuinely take compatability and longevity seriously

As an owner and fan of both, that just made me smile 8)

Wheels need building for the Silver build bike… people picking up one of the handful of advance frames need to go with the more expensive (but ace) Hope wheels I’m afraid.

Pretty much where I was headed with the observation that HopeXC were the ‘worst’ wheels offered and “maybe both are true”. 🙂 Good to hear, but I’m feeling a pair of Boost DT350’s and Asym WTBs in my near future! My only real gripe about this new frame is that I can see the lust for one leading to my poor Solaris giving up its bodily parts along with a new airshaft for the Boost Yaris it’s wearing. I’d deliberately left the steerer long enough for a dropLink bike do it’ll be fine! Right now, hardtails seem more relevant to me although I’m not writing off a probable replacement FS in the next year, so I’ll hang on to my wagon wheels for a bit if the Solaris does split.

Size, at 178 I’m usually listed at the top of M and bottom of L on most charts, but in reality apart from the ‘comes up small’ L’s I’ve had I’m fairly dependably M.

http://www.cotic.co.uk/news/2017/soullaunch

Just seen on FB.

Personally not that keen on mercury colour, definitely not with orange/black accents, though the pink is growing on me. Not liking the orange massively really, particularly the soul logo surround looks odd.

Really don’t like the coloured hope kit on the built up example.

Why do they never quote wheelbase….stack is way too low for someone with long legs and short upper body like myself, shame as I quite like the raw silver colour

I like the Orange frame & Silver/Pink frame, but hate the ‘Soul’ sticker on the TT. It looks out of place. Like a kids MBUK free sticker.

Not keen on the demo build either. Gold accents don’t tie together. Should have gone Hope black or orange to match the decals.

Really like Cy’s explanation.

&

Earlier this year we hacked the front end off a Soul275 and our friends at 18 Bikes welded on a radically different geometry front end. We increased the length to the point where most riders would need a 35mm stem, and then used anglesets to find the balance point on the head angle where you would get the confidence you need in the front end, with nice crisp turn in for the singletrack, without making it over responsive and nervous.

I like this approach to R&D. Down to earth & humble.

Is a 35mm stem loads different to a 50mm stem in the way it feels to ride? 50mm is the shortest I’ve gone, what am I missing?

Is a 35mm stem loads different to a 50mm stem in the way it feels to ride? 50mm is the shortest I’ve gone, what am I missing?

Yes, amazingly so. If you lay a metre rule from grip to grip on typical bars with a 50mm stem you’ll see that the effective stem length is even shorter – maybe 20 or 30mm of forwards offset from steerer to hands. With a 35mm stem you’re approaching zero effective stem length.

It feels VERY direct, more precise control when climbing but noticeably less stability when you weight the bars – so you need a long and slack enough bike for it to not feel too nervous, plus pretty wide bars. I prefer how a 50mm stem feels but I have a 35 on my hardtail for fit reasons.

So, basically Cy has lopped 100mm off the expected stem length since the first iteration!

I think I started with a 75mm stem on my first (batch 1) Soul.

So, basically Cy has lopped 100mm off the expected stem length since the first iteration!

More like 40mm or so.

On the subject of 35mm vs 50mm stems, there’s a clear difference but both are within the useful zone of adjustment (without making the bike handle weird) for me.

Is a 35mm stem loads different to a 50mm stem in the way it feels to ride?

Certainly they were all getting very excited by the steering feel caused by the 35mm stem when they were playing around with the original Longshot proto last summer. As CGG says – its probably that point where you end up with your hands actually in line with the steering axis, so when you steer they’re moving around the max diameter of the circle, rather than being a chord on the circle. (can’t figure the best geometric terms for this, but you get the idea?)

Went over earlier for a look. The mercury/orange one is a large and did look kinda long. There’s a LOT of TT there. The orange medium was still on the stand being built, but looked fairly bikey to me – not obviously an oil tanker, and the mercury/pink small looked just like a 4x bike, which is a good thing in my book! Long, low and fast as ****!. Also there was Cy’s original Soul proto which looked very strange in modern company – even for me who’s still riding 26″. Kinda top heavy with the saddle right back on a long post and a 90mm stem with narrow high rise bars.

Went back into the Cotic website archives, and 90mm was indeed pretty normal on the original Soul.
So 55mm lobbed off since then.

By the way, this was the oldest page I could find, from 2002… http://www.cotic.co.uk/news/spy

Went back into the Cotic website archives, and 90mm was indeed pretty normal on the original Soul.

I’ve probably still got Cy’s email somewhere recommending me a medium Soul, a 90mm stem and a (loooong) layback seat pin 😀

I can’t believe you people even doubted me! 😉

I’ve probably still got Cy’s email somewhere recommending me a medium Soul, a 90mm stem and a (loooong) layback seat pin

So what was the recommended fork of the era? Details!

I couldn’t find one on my normal account (it would’ve been 2007) but I did find one from 2010 when I was asking about a Soda. I was asking about the merits of wide (711!) bars, layback pin & 70mm stem vs narrower, inline & 90mm stem (the answer was inline and 90 would put me too far forwards.

I do specifically mention TALAS forks at either 100 or 120…. 😀

I really don’t like the look of that meticallic one, proportions and colour look dire – and this from a cotic fan and previous Soul owner :(.

You can still do mincing on a modern geometry long bike.

Personally I think longer frames look better, as well as riding better.

So what was the recommended fork of the era? Details!

Wasn’t it Magura all the way back in the Mk1 era?
100mm Menja was what I had on mine.
130mm max, 120mm max recommended.
Now got a 120mm Rockshox something or other. And a 70mm stem which is the shortest I’d want. Also had ultra wide 690mm bars back then, and at 6ft3 on a L, I’d not want to go wider than the 740 fitted now.

Not fussed on the look of it either way, but those numbers look good to me.

I’m bang in the middle of a medium, for a change. Will be saving my pennies to swap my vitus frame for one of them in the future. I’ll only need a new back wheel too. Oh and a 180mm dropper.

I really don’t like the look of that meticallic one, proportions and colour look dire

TBF to Cotic these long hardtails all look wrong proportion wise to me, it’s not a specific Cotic issue. Full sus seem to carry the proportions fine, but not steel hardtails.

Is this new Soul going to be any different in real world terms than the Solaris Max?

Having quickly test ridden a Solaris Max with both wheelsets I would say so based on how that felt vs my 2012 26 BFe (admit 2017 Soul geo is quite different)

Solaris Vs Soul then?

Generall alrounder – the Solaris May have taken the Souls crown?

and the mercury/pink small looked just like a 4x bike

Cotic people reading this, I’d like to see side-on pics of an XS and small built up please, because if it looks right it probably is.

Is this new Soul going to be any different in real world terms than the Solaris Max?

Maybe they should be merged as Soularis?

Cotic people reading this, I’d like to see side-on pics of an XS and small built up please, because if it looks right it probably is.

And a medium too! You should send a memo to Deviate regarding seat tube lengths – their new bike looks so right apart from that. Short is good – droppers are LONG!

Small and Medium bikes are built ready to shoot for the launch… although this thread, with the quick advance photos, using the large, intended for the mailing list peeps, has sort of got ahead of that, hasn’t it.