At the moment im working for a company paye working away from home. Im home every weekend and earn a ok wage but have no progerssion options and its a trade I dont have an interest in.

Ive just bin offered a new position as a foreman on sites again working away but more money (self employed) but I dont have to find my own work. I get all my courses paid for and all other benifits of being self employed like claiming back expenses and freedom of having time off. Hwoever I have to pay my own travel and find my own accomodation.

Has anyone else taken the jump and howd they get on? Its much better prospects and I could be a full site manager in 5 years or stay where I am and have no progerssion?

Nothing that’s worth having comes easy really. Benefits outweigh the down sides on first inspection. I’d go for it mate.

I’d go for it too.

How secure is it?
is there not some rules that is you are self employed you cannot do it all for one company as it is just a means of avoiding NI, Is construction not targetted for this?

Also how secure is the work and how long term?
Personally i would want a sizable chunk of money above what I currently get [ factor in holidays and sick as well] to consider self employment 25 % to even consider it

is there not some rules that is you are self employed you cannot do it all for one company as it is just a means of avoiding NI, Is construction not targetted for this?

More of an issue operating through a ltd co rather than being a sole trader I think.

I would have a look at the CIS regulations.

It sounds a bit like you would be classed as Employed rather than Self Employed.

As a general guide as to whether a worker is an employee or self-employed; if the answer is ‘Yes’ to all of the following questions, then the worker is probably an employee:

Do they have to do the work themselves?
Can someone tell them at any time what to do, where to carry out the work or when and how to do it?
Can they work a set amount of hours?
Can someone move them from task to task?
Are they paid by the hour, week, or month?
Can they get overtime pay or bonus payment?

If the answer is ‘Yes’ to all of the following questions, it will usually mean that the worker is self-employed:

Can they hire someone to do the work or engage helpers at their own expense?
Do they risk their own money?
Do they provide the main items of equipment they need to do their job, not just the small tools that many employees provide for themselves?
Do they agree to do a job for a fixed price regardless of how long the job may take?
Can they decide what work to do, how and when to do the work and where to provide the services?
Do they regularly work for a number of different people?
Do they have to correct unsatisfactory work in their own time and at their own expense?

The work is solid and theres lots of it. Its for a company but I pay my travel and I get a digs allowance I will ask about the sole company as ive heard that before but is this not classed as subbing? Theres lads bin there 10yrs plus as foremen and never had a issue. Also I would have to pay ni but only the lower rate as I wouldent want state pension or want ability to claim benefits.

A lot of building firms switched to self employed when the recession kicked in so they didnt have to keep contracts incase clients pulled out of contracts ie seddon did this surley its legit?

You should look at the continuity of work each post can offer. If your self employed you can be in and out if work at the drop of a hat, however if you’re PAYE you have a little more job security (but I guess you know this already). If you’re paying your own transport and accommodation in the new post then if you run out of work midweek, are you going to be out of pocket? Will the increase in rates cover this? Is it likely to happen? The site manager in 5 years is a nice carrot but I bet the new outfit won’t give you that in writing.

The construction industry is difficult at the moment and I’m not convinced that things are picking up in a sustainable way, figures released today would also suggest this. Depending on your circumstances don’t disregard a bit of job security for a few extra quid just yet.

Put it this way the company is after 13 site managers with foreman for future contracts the jobs are 3-6 months long and are full pub/hotel refurbs the company I work for now work alongside the company I want to go to and in the whole time ive worked with them theyve never laid lads off as theres just too much work.

At the moment they have 45 open jobs running and twice that to start over the next year. At the moment I have hardly any qualifications. I can get some out of this position in the long run hopefully.

And as for the single company self employed thing how do aldi and lidl manage as all their staff are self employed?

A lot of building firms switched to self employed when the recession kicked in so they didnt have to keep contracts incase clients pulled out of contracts ie seddon did this surley its legit?

Providing the terms of the agreement match the rules set out, it’s legit yes.

However, if you answer all the questions I posted above it will tell you wether you will be classed as Employed or Self Employed by the HMRC.

You can’t just choose which to be, the circumstances of your employment dictate it.

Have a look at the first fee paragraphs here:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/cisrmanual/Pdfs/cis349.pdf

So could I be employed and pay my own tax and claim expenses? And if I had a home office? Id have orders to look after site and preform hse checks etc and do odd little jobs if I wish. Im confused?

Im confused?

Tax, it’s Taxing….

By the sounds of it, the deal is very shakey in terms of Self Employed. Just because people have been doing it for ages doesn’t mean it’s right. I’d ask a Tax Specialist with all the details.

When your doing your sums make sure you account for Holidays, a week of sick leave, pension contributions (proper ones not the state scam) and anything else your going to be out of pocket for.

Theyre a ltd co if that helps any??

bigphilblackpool – Member
Theyre a ltd co if that helps any??

Honest advice – get professional advice.
Ltd company and IR35 is something you want to get right.
Paying your own travel may help on one side but getting courses paid for might not.

I don’t know why so many people see self employed as more risky than employed in these situations.

Almost everyone I know who’s employed is on one months notice as are most self employed people I know. Basically the same position of risk but the self employed are better off.

I don’t know why so many people see self employed as more risky than employed in these situations.

Almost everyone I know who’s employed is on one months notice as are most self employed people I know. Basically the same position of risk but the self employed are better off.

The difference between self employed and employed is simple.

Self employed are aware that they could be laid off at any time with little notice

Employed are not.

And as for the single company self employed thing how do aldi and lidl manage as all their staff are self employed?

No they aren’t.

The key thing here is that it sounds as if you will still be working for one company and they will be supplying the work, telling you where to go and when. IF you ONLY work and get paid by them then you are employed by them under the IR35 regulations.

I would be worried about this f I was in your shoes. And yes I am a fully qualified accountant.

If your wages get paid by the new company on the same day of the week/month and the same/similar amount each time I would expect HMRC to pick this up fairly quickly. How would you explain your employment position to HMRC if required to do so? People do it and get away with it and some get caught out?

So what do I need to ask when the contracts manager rings me about the position? They have about 60 lads work for them all on the self employed basis?

A good friend of mine worked at aldi and he had to sort his own tax?

How would I pay and work out my tax and ni if I was ir 35?

So what do I need to ask when the contracts manager rings me about the position? They have about 60 lads work for them all on the self employed basis?

Get all the details from him about pay and conditions etc.

Then get professional advice.

Just because they have lots of people already doing it, doesn’t mean its legal.

A good friend of mine worked at aldi and he had to sort his own tax?

I’ve worked at Aldi.

I didn’t have to sort my own TAX.

Plus…..”Aldi Myths”

Think your good friend must have paid tax twice by accident 😉

Who’s the new job with? I understand you probably won’t want to give the full name but the company I work for have a division that do pub refurbs. Is it 4 initials?

Sounds like you will be employed. The courses paid for you clinches it. If you have any regular input into company decisions (theirs not yours) that would be another black mark. Take he post but put away the extra money to cover any tax liability as assessed by an accountant (ask them to lay out the worst case scenario with regard to liability). DO NOT TOUCH THIS MONEY!! Mrs Sandwich does this sort of stuff for a living and she likes your type of case as it’s an easy collar.

No its a large conpany that carry out shopfitting pubs clubs hotels offices and bespoke builds.

On his contract it stated he was responsible for his own tax???? Do aldi have franchises?

Obviously I want to save my tax and pay my ni I dont want to dodge it. I was going to save 25% of my wage and save all expenses and spends towards my work ie bills at home for my office and travel food and tools etc so could I just take the post and save my tax and get an accountant to fill in a self assesment for me?

The difference between self employed and employed is simple.

Self employed are aware that they could be laid off at any time with little notice

Employed are not.

being self employed i sometimes get laid off 2 or 3 times a week. there is no “could be laid off” it’s a certainty.

Aldi store fit-out? That would be a principal contractor working for Aldi. Aldi employees work in the store on the tills and filling the fitments. They don’t do their own building work they have people for that at arms length.

Like I said above the firms jobs last 3-6months and some longer then you move onto the next job. They have a 5yr contract with one pub chain to carry out all refurbs for them so work isnt an issue as ive already asked the formen when was the last time you had no work? Answer… 8 years ago they want them 7 days a week theres no shortage of work for us.

Right spoke to him and im more confused now as id be working for the guild? The company pay them then the guild minus my tax and I get paid? But I still have to fill in a self assesment?

Spark mate of mine who subs does that.

So technically id be employed by the guild?

Yes til HMRC come looking for a scalp,probability says that will be yours tax liability will be yours no matter who passes the buck between them. I’d say cover your ass and make sure you know it’s covered

Give the hmrc a call – they’re incredibly helpful. I always end up calling them at this time of year (self assessment!). They really will do their best to help out if you make the first move. And they are the experts…

Right spoke to him and im more confused now as id be working for the guild? The company pay them then the guild minus my tax and I get paid? But I still have to fill in a self assesment?

Unless you are paid via PAYE and you get a wage slip with your Tax and NI deductions listed. Then they haven’t paid your tax.

You will have to pay it yourself.

The main issue is, you (or they) can’t just choose to make it a Self Employed position because it suits you (or them)

As mentioned above, it’s not a choice. It’s dictated by the HMRC rules.

You really need to find out what the HMRC view of the role is, and take it from there.

Whether you’re an employee or a independent contractor is also important when it comes to insurance and legal liability, not just tax. Also you have (iirc in the UK) different levels of protection if the company goes bust – an independent contractor is typically an unsecured creditor (not enviable), employees (might?) get higher priority than that. Given that people are constantly injuring themselves and others, and going out of business, in construction, it’s worth thinking about.

Well ive booked a consultation with a highly regarded accountant through friends and family (done their books for 10+ years) and il see what he says.

To be honest I just want to work for them and pay my way legally is that so hard?

My faith in hmrc is totally shot as over xmas I got a rebate notice for 349quid happy days, I rang up and they said the rebate had bin used to pay a debt? And I owed them 645 unpaid tax (allways bin paye) confused I asked for a full breakdown in a letter.
A week later the wife phones me screaming saying ive claimed 6.7k of job seekers from 12/13!!!!!!! Never claimed in my life! Rang again and after much arguing they wiped all debt and said my rebate was on its way. How can they pick random numbers and charge peooke!!!!

This experiance is also helping me in my desicion!!!

To be honest I just want to work for them and pay my way legally is that so hard?

To be fair, it’s not the HMRC that’s making life difficult in this situation.

Their rules on this are fairly simple, and easy to figure out.

Sounds like the Employer is making life complicated and possibly bending the rules because it suits them better that way.

The guild would take my 20% tax and id be supplied with a utr and id fill in my self assesment for fuel etc does this sound right?