ninfan – Member
Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy though – if customers are holding off buying to see whats going to happen next, i.e. if they’re going 650 or staying with 26, then either is a valid choice – people aren’t ‘not buying 26’ they’re just waiting to see the manufacturers shit or get off the pot before buying anything at all.

precisely, I wouldn’t know what to buy at the moment

I am quite happy with 26, and have no desire for bigger wheels, but I’d be mighty pissed off if I buy a new frame to find out in a years time that every manufacturer is trying to phase out 26 frames and components

in the end I reckon I will still be faster than the 27.5″ guys in my 26, it’s about the rider not the bike 😉

As above my decisions are purely based on which one will be around in a few years rather than which one is going to be insignificantly better.

I may end up going for a 29er for that reason.

Glad I got mine now then!!!

Mine is 3 months old and I had lusted after one for years. Having to buy new wheels as well would have been a deal breaker.

Heckler with a Deore Triple crank??? Eeuuchh!

They’re really not that bad, honest! This with the deore BB is the only thing on my bike that’s budget. Honestly doesn’t bother me, although a mate reckons that they’re a bit flexy compared to his SLX.

acidchunks – I personally think that the new Deore stuff looks really good for once. If the rest of it works as well as the brakes (I love mine) then it will be hard to justify the extra cost of XT.

The wheel size thing could make those who have bikes for ages or are waiting for the dust to settle hang on to stuff even longer. Bike stuff is getting ever more expensive so when a new frame involves fork and wheels, many may just stick with what they’ve got. If I was having to change the wheels and forks for the Banshee, I wouldn’t have bothered because it would have cost too much. So it may help drum up business in places like the states of for those who can afford it but it may have the opposite effect on a lot of other people.

can someone wake me up when all this nonsense has finished?

To be honest, its more the triple on an AM bike. I have the Deore brakes and think they are ace!

Well I’m glad I didn’t wait any longer to get my heckler now.
Got to admit to being fed up with having 650b pretty much forced upon us. 🙄

26er is officially dead…….

$1400 in the States / Canada for the frame, and 1400 pounds in the UK? You guys should boycott buying bikes until distribution channels stop taking the pish!

I thought it was £1199 in the uk?

£1199 is still over priced

Especially now you have to get new wheels to go with your shiny new frame 😐

to be confirmed but i predict around the £1400 mark..

I’m not naming the shop as they’ll just be selling at the retail price. Either way, anything over a grand is silly money for a few welded bits of aluminium and a shock.

I’m not naming the shop as they’ll just be selling at the retail price. Either way, anything over a grand is silly money for a few welded bits of aluminium and a shock.

Agreed. Especially when you can get an awesome complete such as a Scott Voltage for about £1200.

It does seem expensive given that the early ‘new’ Hecklers were a smidge under a grand.

Unfortunately, it does seem to be the going rate these days and that’s about what I paid for my Banshee (although I got some money off). I don’t think it helps that the likes of Specialized have moved away from offering reasonably priced frames.

$1400 in the States / Canada for the frame, and 1400 pounds in the UK? You guys should boycott buying bikes until distribution channels stop taking the pish!

+ 1000000
SC are the worst, and whilst I’m a bit of a fanboy they really don’t represent VFM.

If you run 2.4/2.5″ 26″ tyres your almost running 650b/27.5″ anyway… i.e. 2.4″ Rubber Queens are bigger than most 2.2″ 650b/27.5″ tyres

True, but one of the advantages of running a conti 2.4 rq, mk2 or x-king is the casing height.
Being that you can run those same tyres in 27.5, then the difference is still there between 26 and 650.
I agree that squeezing a 2.2″ 650b tyre into a 26″ frame just for the sake of it is daft.

I do wonder if the confident move to 650b here is because SC have tested this bike with 26 inch wheels and know that will happily with run either size wheels

DoSC sell more bikes or frames? Changing wheel standards for buying a bike seems irrelevant, you get everything you need. It sframe buyers who a more likely to revolt if they can’t use their old wheels and forks

I agree SC frames are extortionate over here – even second hand! That’s why I was so smug picking up a mint s/h one in the states for £330 8)

£330 I paid £250 delivered for a like new Heckler. You were robbed.

Please would someone explain to me, that when a real player in the industry makes a deliberate move to update it’s range, ( a range that is, in all fairness, a very popular one – who mentioned earlier that nearly all his riding buddies ride Santa Cruz bikes?) and not just with new colours and a few little tweaks. They have brought out 2 new bikes and redesigned their core product ( Orange and 5 anyone?), and all 3 are designed with the 650B wheel size as their primary focus.

And there are still, yes still, people on this forum who are suggesting that the 650B will die a death and it’ll never catch on! Do what?!

Not only Santa Cruz, Scott, Orange, Cube, Turner etc etc….

Think about the cost of getting one new bike to market. Development, prototypes, redesign, manufacturing, ensuring that the component manufacturers are going to be able to supply their own tested and evaluated products. The investment involved by all these companies and people is eye watering.

Furthermore, many of the 650B bikes that have been launched are not first time purchases, they are being targeted at people who know a bit about their chosen hobby/sport/pastime and are prepared to invest time and money into it. An educated market.

I would say that’s quite a risk. They must be pretty sure that these bikes will be an improvement over those that have been thus far, otherwise, they are set to lose a lot of money and may well put some of them out of business completely. That would certainly reduce choices for the keen mtb’er.

I don’t believe the industry can afford for the 650B move to fail. The global economy is stretched, money and credit is not as available as it has been. It could be suggested that the industry has invested in itself to try to stimulate demand and growth. Better than introducing cuts wouldn’t you say?

How about a change of attitude from the skeptic’s? How about giving change a go? What is there to be afraid of? What is the worst that could happen? ( and please, no more with the “I won’t be able to get pucker bits for my 26er in a few years…” Of course you will ).

Attitude is everything and we make our own world. 😀

Have you read this?
http://www.bikemag.com/gear/exclusive-video-bronson-santa-cruzs-new-650b-trail-bike/

Interesting link, thanks Simon 🙂

I’ll gladly modify my spiel on whether they are an improvement! And to one that suggests the market wants it to be an improvement!

Is there any point in making the NOAMD 650b ? is that segment in the market not filled with the recent intro of the BRONSON ?

Like wise the SOLO ? why buy a SUPERLIGHT or BLUR in 650b when you can have the other ?

Orange have done the 5, Santa Cruz has now done the HECKLER, When and If the NOMAD goes 650b surely the V10 will get the same treatment ?

This is a stroke of genius by the marketeers at SC. They spend the next few years getting everyone to upgrade to 650b, then, it doesn’t take a genius to see what’s coming next, they bring out a new and improved wheel size…. 29″! Why go jump to 29″ wheels in one step, when you can do it in two and sell twice as many bikes. They’re not daft these marketing men at SC. far more clever at those other manufacturers who want us to jump to 29″ straight away 😉

It’s not santa cruz’ doing. The MTB industry have effectively formed a cartel and decided that its going to make 650b. That’s it. There’s nothing us consumers (particularly in the uk) can do about it. Personally, I think it’ll damage the industry in the short run. We know that there’s next to no difference between 26 and 650b, so relatively high end customers are going to skip the frame upgrade we may have been considering and ride our bikes until they’re at the end of their lives so that we don’t have to run out and buy new forks and wheels. I know that’s my plan. Ill still be able to service and repair my wheels and forks (spares are mainly common so wont disappear) so as long as I don’t snap anything, I should be good for a good while. That’s missed sales for the manufacturers.
I am aware that when I do need a new bike, the likelihood is that it’ll have to be a 650b.

Simon that’s a great link

I just wish the video ended with the interviewer saying

“If you can’t tell the difference then why did you change it so I need new wheels and Fork…”

I just wish the video ended with the interviewer saying

“If you can’t tell the difference then why did you change it so I need new wheels and Fork…”

The article kinda did with SC saying they were receiving loads of calls and emails asking for it.

brakes…………..

+1

Having just chopped in a HT and a 5 for a blingy Soul I reckon one of those new Hecklers could join it next year 🙂

If that link does not make you think that the marketing guys are taking us for a ride I don’t know what does?

Slackalice

I’m happy that they made it because people wanted it. However I think that they could have done with acknowledging why people are concerned

Maybe ampthill, I do see your point, it would be wise for the industry to then try to allay the fears you have. Although that might not help them sell the new bikes into which so much time and investment has been made.

As I suggested earlier, I am thankful that the industry has gone down this route rather than cutting back.

Slackalice

personally I’ll be fine. I’ve had a mountain bikes for 25 years plus and I’m on my 5th. The high initial turnover was down to theft. I’ll ride my FS into the ground and replace the whole thing.

But I do see the where the swappers are coming from

John

ampthill – Member

I’m happy that they made it because people wanted it.

I’m not… Can’t blame Santa Cruz but their boy hits the nail on the head, people want it but they don’t know why. Most of the pressure for them to make a 650B bike came from people that had never ridden one. So sure, it’s customer led in that sense but obviously the customers didn’t end up pointing in that direction naturally, this is 100% a hype-led thing not an experience-led thing.

Some bike companies make the best bikes they can, and hope to sell them. Others make the most sellable bikes they can. Can’t blame anyone for choosing the second camp but I’m glad most of my lot came from the former.

$1400 in the States / Canada for the frame, and 1400 pounds in the UK? You guys should boycott buying bikes until distribution channels stop taking the pish!
+ 1000000
SC are the worst, and whilst I’m a bit of a fanboy they really don’t represent VFM.

You forget that the £ is worthless, US prices generally have no sales tax quoted there is import duty and 20% VAT added to anything, but apart from that the distributor must be raking it in 🙂

Ampthill, like you I have also been riding mountain bikes since the mid 80’s and also share the same philosophy of riding my bikes until they wear out. I’ve just replaced my 13 year old SC Superlight, with…. A 650B PYGA. My reason being, I wanted to try something different.

We are the same chap! We love riding our bikes! 😀

You forget that the £ is worthless, US prices generally have no sales tax quoted there is import duty and 20% VAT added to anything, but apart from that the distributor must be raking it in

How comes other manufacturers manage it then?

It seems to me like the industry has noticed that lots of people have been talking about wanting 650b bikes and obviously they want to sell more bikes.

But I’d still like to know what proportion of mountain bikers have asked for 650b. If 10% of bikers use forums and 20% of them like or want 650b then that equates to 2% of mtbers overall but an apparent 20% of observed mtbers if you look at the numbers of internet evangelists.

Out of all of the mtbers I know not a single one is remotely interested in 650b, and I’m the only one out of >20 frequent riding mates to own a 29er.

I’m looking to replace my 2005 Heckler frame but I can’t afford new wheels, tyres and a fork as well, let alone a whole new bike, especially as the riding benefits, if any, will be all but invisible. So I’m not going to bother, I’m going to wait a few more years and see what happens. Along with almost everyone else I know.