Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 83 total)
  • New forks not getting full travel – Sales of Goods Act claim?
  • Digger90
    Free Member

    What recourse does a consumer have if a pair of forks do not produce anything close to the manufacturer’s claimed amount of travel?

    They were purchased new in Dec 2010, waited for 2 months for teh new frame to arrive – fitted in March, went back to UK Distributor earlier this month as they were not getting full travel.

    The UK distributor claims that they measured them to get 155mm travel but it’s hard to see how they did that without fitting them to a bike unless they have some kind of machine press.

    They are coil forks with air assist. With zero air in they get 140mm max travel no matter how hard I wail on them – and I weigh 92Kgs so I can’t imagine I’m not able to get full travel out of them.

    With the correct air setting for my weight they produce a maximum of 125mm travel. Whether 140mm or 125mm, neither is the manufacturer’s claimed 150mm travel.

    When one spends £550 on a brand new pair of forks claimed to have a certain amount of travel and they don’t, it’s pretty disappointing to say the least.

    What, if any, recourse do I have as a consumer?

    hexhamstu
    Free Member

    Depends, what forks are they? Have you put a ratchet strap round them and tightened it up to see actual full travel, instead of just “wailing” on them.

    Joe
    Full Member

    None. Get over it. Sell them if it’s a problem.

    I HATE all the sales of goods act preachers on here.

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    donsimon
    Free Member

    I HATE all the sales of goods act preachers on here.

    Even when they agree with you?

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Joe – you don’t think consumers should have rights and use them?

    However in this case your odds are low. The manufacturer has said full travel is available so you would have to have an engineers report of equal stature to say that the fork is not working correctly

    Why are you putting air in them if you are not getting enough travel?

    Its very easy to test travel without a fork however its rare yuu can get full travel just by leaning on them

    How do you know you are bottoming them out ?
    Take the springs out.
    Now see how much travel you get.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    change springs?

    john_drummer
    Free Member

    they may not bottom out on a regular ride but try a couple of 3foot+ drop-offs at speed* & see what travel you get. They shouldn’t bottom out completely during “normal” riding anyway, if they do the springs are too soft

    *See what Danny MacAskill gets up to & you’ll see what I mean
    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19zFlPah-o[/video]

    tree-magnet
    Free Member

    They shouldn’t bottom out completely during “normal” riding anyway, if they do the springs are

    Yeah they should. If you don’t bottom your forks out once a ride, you’ve got the wrong weight spring in them.

    Which, incidentally, sounds like the problem you’re having. You might find the 5mm of travel you’re missing (as the distributor tested) is negative travel.

    Either way, as above, take the springs out and compress it. That’s the max theoretical travel. If you’re not getting that once a ride, then you need a lighter spring.

    rob-jackson
    Free Member

    thats not right tho is it! If the sag is correct the he has the right springs

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    No – what tree says is right. You should bottom or nearly bottom out the fork on the biggest hits you usually take.

    Preload has as much influence on as as spring rate ( to oversimplify)

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    thats not right tho is it! If the sag is correct the he has the right springs

    Probably not as there is an air component too empty internals and see how far them move try lighter spring

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    There clearly marzocchi forks, all you need to do is drain a bit of oil out of the legs. Thats why your not getting all your travel cos theres too much oil in them. Do that and they’ll work.

    john_drummer
    Free Member

    you haven’t seen me riding 😉

    sorry, what I meant was they shouldn’t bottom out “frequently” in normal riding. once or twice a ride fine. Frequently, spring is too soft; never, spring is too firm

    Northwind
    Full Member

    tree-magnet – Member

    Yeah they should. If you don’t bottom your forks out once a ride, you’ve got the wrong weight spring in them.

    This argument only works if every ride you do is the same! TJ’s version works but this one’s useless.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    how i assume when you compress the spring fully it is still an actual physical object of say 10 mm thickness hence 140 of full travel. That said if the forks said 150 i would expect 150 with the spring in it not with the spring out.
    is that not how it works
    Re full travel tbh depends what/where you ride and what you hit. If you go down the canal towpath full travel may be unlikely. 6 ft drop offs i would expect near full travel. I rarely bottom out tbh but I like it firm…. especially in the rear 😉

    Reluctant
    Free Member

    I think DavidT might have it – Marzocchi were notorious for over filling their forks. Takes a few cc s out and see what you get. To truely check max travel, remove air valves, top caps, springs and then measure.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    junkyard – the fork should hit full travel before the spring becomes coilbound

    br
    Free Member

    I’d rather not hit full travel on every ride, as that means you’ve nothing left in reserve…

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    other way round is too little oil and the ramp up at the top due to the air in the system prevents full travel too More of an issue on basic 888 type forks

    Digger90
    Free Member

    Thanks for the replies.

    Yes, they are Marxocchi’s – their 2011 44 RC3 Ti 150mm QR15 forks.

    I sent them back to Windwave, they have changed the seals, fully serviced them and returned them claiming they are fine – however they are not and the max travel is as I say, either 125mm with the correct air pressure in or 140mm without any air at all.

    The thing is at this point I do not believe these forks will ever produce 150mm and am somewhat suspicious of Marzocchi’s claim that they are in fact 150mm forks.

    I will call Windwave tomorrow and discuss the matter with them, but if they can’t produce 150mm of travel I don’t see why a consumer should pay £550+ for a product that does not do what the manufacturer sells it to do.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    If you are only getting 125 mm with air in its not the correct air!

    How much sag have you got?

    Have you tired removing top caps and springs and compressing them?

    glenh
    Free Member

    Surely the answer to this is simple? Take the spring out and see if the fork will fully compress without it.
    If it does, then it’s just the wrong spring for you.

    P.s. I bet it will compress 150mm without the spring.

    P.p.s. If you aren’t getting enough travel why are you putting that much air in there?

    legend
    Free Member

    If you are only getting 125 mm with air in its not the correct air!

    How much sag have you got?

    Have you tired removing top caps and springs and compressing them?

    +1

    Setup guides are just that, they are not law. So dump all the air out of them.

    Opening the top caps and compressing them will show exactly how much much travel the fork is capable of.

    Also, 150mm could be 140mm positive + 10mm negative travel – have you looked into this? Alternatively you might find the travel stated is +/- 10mm (or whatever tolerance)

    From Marzocchi:

    Air pressure values will vary depending on the rider, terrain,
    preferred travel position and personal preferences. Therefore
    the data provided by this chart are purely indicative and have to
    be considered as a quick set-up guide for your fi rst settings and
    may vary after riding the bicycle.

    seanodav
    Free Member

    Windwave told me my forks were fixed and not leaking any oil twice, until i returned them with photos of them pissing oil out the lowers.
    (they were 09 model)

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Correct me if I’m wrong but,

    If you’re wailing on them and they’re not bottoming out, then the travel is “sufficient” whether that’s 150mm, 100mm or a foot and a half, no? If you’re not outperforming the forks then does it matter whether there’s 10mm or 30mm left that you’re not using?

    Sure, I get the idea that you bought something then you should get it, but marketing departments have been stretching the truth as far as they can get away with for years. Are these forks any different to any others in terms of claim vs actual?

    (ObDisclaimer, I don’t *know*, so feel free to ignore me)

    seanodav
    Free Member

    I have 55’s and get nowhere near full travel just wailing on them, however i do on decent sized drops etc.

    What pressure are you using in the cart?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I’ve never had air forks that gave the stated amount of travel apart from Pace which gave slightly more when you walloped them on a ride.

    The air piston in my 66s has a 170mm stroke when you take it all apart. It’s never going to get that when assembled because even at 0 psi the air in the cartridge won’t compress to nothing. I get about 150-160 when riding even on big big hits and landings (big for me, anyway 🙂 ).

    However they are still really 170mm forks – they are burlier and longer than what I’d get if I went out and bought 150mm forks.

    I used to have coil 66s and I did get their full 180mm but never bottomed out hard due to the lovely RC2X damper.. I miss those forks *sigh*

    It’s annoying, but it doesn’t really affect the ride. Presumably you bought them for their length and built no the specific amount of travel..?

    donsimon
    Free Member

    (ObDisclaimer, I don’t *know*, so feel free to ignore me)

    Duly ignored. 😉

    Cougar
    Full Member

    If only that were true.

    Three_Fish
    Free Member

    If you don’t bottom your forks out once a ride, you’ve got the wrong weight spring in them.

    You should bottom or nearly bottom out the fork on the biggest hits you usually take.

    Why does this myth persist? There is never a time when one *should* bottom out. It’s not the end of the world, it just means that a higher spring rate or more/better damping is required; but it really isn’t something that people should be accepting as some kind of necessity. It’s just the same as saying that one *should* pinch-flat at least once per ride.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    No – It means you are using all your fork. If you never bottom it out you need a lighter spring.

    jonahtonto
    Free Member

    maybe you just dont have enough gnar to do the forks justice 😉

    Three_Fish
    Free Member

    No – It means you are using all your fork. If you never bottom it out you need a lighter spring.

    Still wrong. You’re just repeating yourself.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Why wrong? its one of the standard ways of assessing spring rate. Why do you want a fork so stiff you don’t get full travel ever?

    From Locos site

    Sag/Spring rate problem solver

    Symptoms: Not using full travel, feels harsh, poor traction while making turns

    Causes: Overly stiff spring or compression damping

    Solutions: Lower air pressure or soften coil springs; reduce compression damping

    http://locotuning.co.uk/forks-sag.html

    Three_Fish
    Free Member

    Why do you want a fork so stiff you don’t get full travel ever?

    I haven’t said that I do. A fork can be well-damped without being stiff.

    I’m not saying that bottom-out should never, ever happen; just that it’s not something that people should be aiming for as some kind of marker that their fork is set up properly or that they’re using it properly. I think that the term “full travel” is being taken too literally.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    If it never bottoms you are not getting full travel!

    For a chap in the trade you have some very odd ideas. 🙄

    Sneaky edit there threefish

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Why does this myth persist?

    Because manufacturers such as Rockshox suggest it ?

    Three_Fish
    Free Member

    Because manufacturers such as Rockshox suggest it ?

    They suggest bottoming out every ride?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    What constitutes bottoming out on an air fork that has an infinitely steep rate at the end of travel?

    I ran my 66s soft for a while because I got more travel, then I realised how stupid I was being. 170mm is to a large extent an arbitrary. No point at all in running them too soft to try and ‘bottom them out once a ride’. I firmed them up a bit and the ride is much better which is surely what’s important here?

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 83 total)

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