Anyone else get Cy’s newsletter this morning?

Any opinions? The 125mm gets my vote.

I was thinking of the 100mm as it fits the kind of riding darn sarf that I do 🙂

what was in it?

Yeah i said 100mm too for the same reason, wwaswas.

Cy’s testing out two new full susser’s.

Alu 100mm rear and 100-120mm front or a steel 125mm rear with 120-140mm up front (both based on the rocket suspension system).

Eh is putting this on ok Mods? I do like these emails the only marketing type stuff I read rather than bin! Would like a Solaris really like the look of those! 8)

Morning!

Hope you’re well and getting out despite the weather. It’s really not been good to us this year, has it?
What I’m hoping for with this letter is some help and some insight. I’m going to let you in on a couple of frames we’re working on to expand the droplink suspension platform and I’d like some feedback from you on what you’d prefer – if anything – out of the options we’re looking at, and if we’re not going the way you’re interested in, what would you like?

The Rocket has been going brilliantly for us and it’s been great to successfully get into a part of the market that Cotic hasn’t traditionally found itself in. However, this new area of the market is part of the issue I’d like some help with. Whilst the Rocket is absolutely the bike I wanted for blasting around my home trails of the Peak District, a lot of people we’ve spoken to seem to think it will be “too much bike” for them. This surprised me a little bit, as I’ve quite happily put some zippy tyres on mine and shot about on singletrack trails without wishing I was on something else. People really seem to be interested in the idea of the Rocket, with it’s steel construction and clean lines, but some feel it’s more than they want/need.

Realistically our usual customers (your good self) are hardtail fans, and there is definitely a body of opinion out there that people would rather be ragging a shorter travel bike towards it’s limits than going off in search of the lofty limits of a 150mm bike. This being the case, we have had a couple of options on test for a couple of months now and both are getting to the point of being sorted. However, I can’t see us doing both of them – not initially anyway – so I’d like some feedback from you. Here are our current development bikes, both 26″ wheel before you ask!

1) 125mm travel, 120-140mm forks, very much related to the Rocket with a steel front end and Rocket swingarm with the X-12 axle. 67.5/73 angles with 140 forks, 68.5/74 with 120’s. Frame weight in the high 6lbs range. With 120mm forks it’s proper nippy at trail centres, with 140mm forks it’ll handle the Peak in very much mini Rocket style. Obviously carries the steel front end and aesthetic of the Rocket into something shorter and a little less intimidating.

2) 100mm travel, 100-120mm forks, aluminium throughout, basically Soul geometry. For those with a long memory for Cotic facts, the geometry on this frame is based on the KP24 prototype we did a few years back for Kate Potter to race one. Frame weight is around 6lbs depending on size. 100mm FS frames these days all seem to be either crazy light carbon or jumpy slopestyle. Nobody really makes
a 100mm travel trail FS frame. That could be either an opportunity to fill a niche or a sales disaster waiting to happen!!

Personally, I prefer the 125mm bike. It’s something very much like the Rocket experience in a lighter and nippier package, and particularly at trail centres and the like you do feel much less ‘overbiked’ than riding the Rocket. On the 100mm frame, for me I’d rather ride my Solaris 29er hardtail as I think it does mostly the same things but lighter. On the flipside, Paul (who’s 5ft 8in and doesn’t really get on with 29ers) thinks it’s basically a faster version of his Soul, which therefore makes it brilliant. It’s clearly a good bike though, and despite my feelings towards it, I know plenty of people who don’t want to go 29″.  
Be interested to know your thoughts. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Cheers,

Cy

 +++++++++++++++++++

I have a Flux and a Solaris and have just sold my Soul

In my opinion these bikes are too close in comfort/ability, if I wanted a trail centre machine I think the 125/140mm machine would get my vote

I have a 150mm travel bike and don’t tend to use it much as find it a bit much for local XC and the Wales trail centres

I’d edit to remove your email address 😉

Maybe just leave body if email?

Yep just saw that!! Thanks Was!

I’m down south but I think I would prefer the 125 version.

100mm travel with 100-120mm forks. Like a Superlight then? I reckon that’s more than enough bike for most folk.

Dunno druidh, I run an ex8 but often wish I could run a 140mm fork especially when I’m in Wales. Trek told me they don’t warranty a 140mm fork on an ex8 so this would be right up my street.

Like Frankers I used to run a 150mm, but it was complete overkill.

This bike would suit me well with a Talas up front.

The 125 rear 120-140 up front seems alittle to close to the Rocket, imo might as well aim for the other end of the market, and for people who ride trails but also would like a bike that they can enter into the occaisonal race or two when it suits them, so 100/100-120 gets my vote.

Is Cy going to read this thread or does he want people to mail him?

I replied to his mail directly. If we drum up enough support maybe we can get him to build both…eventually.

Some people just havnt come to terms with the fact 29ers are better. 😆

I’d rather ride my 140mm Soul than a 100mm FS. If I got a Rocket I’d want 150 or 160mm fat stanchioned forks (not 32s!) so I guess it would end up a fairly blunt DH focused instrument, so as a one bike solution instead of a Soul and a Rocket, both in heavy duty spec, then a 140/125 low slack FS would make sense. The Soul and Solaris are such excellent XC/trail machines that I can’t really see the point of a similar geometry but heavier FS.

I don’t own a 29er but I’d probably make a 120-140F/100R 29er FS instead of either option!

I’m going to throw a spanner in the works, I like my 140mm hardtail, I like my 120mm full suss, what I’d really like in a full suss is 140 front, 100 rear, but I am a single voice looking for something different.

Edit – I’d like to keep it 26 as well…

If I had one MTB (which I do), it would be 125mm and 120/140mm (which it is). If I had two, the second would be a hardtail with 100/120mm, and if I had three, the third would be 160mm and 160/180mm.

pleaderwilliams – what bike is that your running?

I have one bike, a Rocket with 160mm Bos. I never lose any sleep from being over biked. I am over biked 80% of the time I’d say.
I regularly do local xc mincer rides. I find there is always something along the way that warrants the suspension.

Just been reading this thread and my initial preference is the 125mm travel option…but with the frame weight of the 100mm travel option. Be a good replacement for my Hemlock particularly as I normally run it at 120mm travel

Failing that, I’d second PrinceJohn’s suggestion “what I’d really like in a full suss is 140 front, 100 rear“

…although I also like chiefgrooveguru’s suggestion “I’d probably make a 120-140F/100R 29er FS instead of either option!“

Hmmm, it is tricky 😕

The 100mm sounds like the one for me.
If it looks as good as the Rocket and rides as well as a Soul or Solaris, I’ll be getting myself one 😀

120R/120-140F 650b would get my vote. But Cy didn’t seem to keen at Bespoked when I suggested it.

100R/120F 650b gets my ‘x’… Nearly with you andyl! 🙂

I’d probably make a 120-140F/100R 29er FS instead of either option!

+1, it’d be right at the top of my list.

CBA with 650b, I’m 6ft and 95kg so no need for training wheels :p

Does anyone know what happend to those ragley frames that were 20 mm difference in travel at each end ? Did they ever go on sale

100mm FS frames these days all seem to be either crazy light carbon or jumpy slopestyle. Nobody really makes
a 100mm travel trail FS frame.

Isn’t that sort of what Marin tried to do with the Rift Zone when they re introduced it. I think everyone looked at it and just thought that’s too heavy for a 100mm bike. And of course being a Marin meant no one on here could buy it anyway. 🙂

Weight is a bit of an issue generally isn’t it? The Rocket is burley enough for it not to be such a clincher, but anything shorter travel is going to struggle to compete (theoretically if not in practice) with the wide array of lightweight all-rounders. Personally I reckon a big wheeled version of the Rocket would be the most compelling, but that wasn’t on the list.

I’m actually in the same camp as PrinceJohn, so that makes two of us.

Of the options offered though, I’d have to go with 125r, 120-140f.

shorter travel trail geo for sure

125 rear travel definitely gets my vote.

@moonsaballon – no they didn’t, went AWOL.

But, 140mm front, 100mm rear, like what the Ragley 10-4 was supposed to have, would be awesome.

120ish both ends, lightish weight, all day FS XC kind of bike would make more sense to me. Lots in that market though, but loads of them are moving up to higher numbers just because bigger numbers are better.

Or 2 shock mount positions on the link to swap between 100 and 120 (ish) at the back, and rate it for 100-120 (ish) forks? Kill 2 birds with 1 stone, and no need for linker change like on the Hemlock.

100 mm travel ripper, as slack a head angle as you dare (67 with 120 forks) built up with light weight rims, single front ring would weigh 25 lbs, given I have a Cotic (medium) with 2.25 and 2.4 tyres on, that weighs in at 23.5 lbs.

Orange have just got rid of their ST4 which was basically a 120mm trail bike, problem was that built up its weight wasn’t that shy of a well specced Five..!

I’d want a 29er with 100/120mm rear and 120/140mm front.
Not an option though so i’ll get my coat…

pleaderwilliams – what bike is that your running?

Trance X with Sektor U-Turns.

Will it be as expensive as the Rocket? 🙁

As an ex Orange ST4 rider, I totally get the ‘slightly nippier, slightly lighter, slightly less travel but still stronger and stiffer than an XC bike’ bike for all sorts of riding. 100/120mm worked brilliantly for 90% of the time – there was the occasional Peaks or uber-rock Highland descent where you felt a few bottom-outs, but it was a couple of times a year – maybe if you are an uber-gnar rider you will want more, but for most of us, I think this works.
100/120mm for me.