As a lifelong cycling fan who is a few years from retirement I am contemplating training to become a framebuilder. Steel frames, road track and mtb. I don’t need to make loads of money, I know I’m not going to get rich, but it would be a great occupation for me in many ways.

Your thoughts?

if you have a clear vision for what you’re trying to build, the skills and tools to realise it and a market that’s willing to pay you to do it then why not?

there’s an increasing number of frame builders about in the UK – go to the bespoke bike show in Bristol and see what they’re doing?

Well you’ve got the username for it, at least.

postmans syndrome?

I’ve often thought about that as I have a background in steel fabrication and design, but I guess it’s a hard trade to get into with not many opportunities.

Good luck.

What’s/will be your niche as WWW says, seems to be a fair few now covering pretty much all levels of bespoke.

brand it right, you’ll win. look at how much old steel road frames go for these days to the urban trendy.

Just give it a go. There are courses you can enrol on if that helps, maybe try building something to your tastes as a starting point.

If you can make it a hobby that might make some money then yes. If you would need to rely on it to make a living then be very cautious.

I think yo would need a usp as well to distinguish yourself from the other more established people around

Have you a background in engineering and do you know what makes a good/bad frame?

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Yes I have a previous career in engineering, and as a big fan of Robin Mather and Steven Shand, I’d like to go down that route.

My niche would initially have to be quality for a good price.

To be successful in any business you have to be totally commited, not just building frames, but marketing, development etc.

Don’t underestimate it.

I suggest employing TJ as your brand manager 😉

Accepting you won’t make a lot of money is probably a good start!

Have you got a background in Engineering, existing fabricating skills, apprenticeship?

Where are you planning on training? Might be hard to find an apprenticeship with a framebuilder which would be the proper inroad if you have no experience in metalwork. A 1 week course to make a frame is a good start but doesen’t exactly qualify you 🙂 . I’d probably have more faith in a builder with the pre-existing skills to work it out himself (without needing a specific course).

After “training” you will need to make a lot of practice frames for friends etc before being confident to sell to the public.
Have you built one before? It can be quite labour intensive, slow, laborious work, especially if producing in enough volume to make a living.

I’ve built a few frames but certainly in no hurry to make it a career. If you do the research, a lot of the American builders also have a day job.

What are the liability implications if someone bins it due to failure of a frame you built?

What are the liability implications if someone bins it due to failure of a frame you built?

That applies to the most skilled and experienced frame builders too. Insurance

yossarian – Member

I suggest employing TJ as your brand manager
Ha! 😆

I suggest you focus on urban utility bike as that’s where the market is heading in future but you need to be very creative.

What you do not have to worry with urban utility is the problems of getting the angle right for suspension or full suspension.

Like this here.

Utility bikes

Listen to Norman Taylor at about 5:40

“… taught about 30 lads to build frames over the last 50 years….. only about one in ten [lads] have been any good….”

What are the liability implications if someone bins it due to failure of a frame you built?

This is why all(?) businesses have liability insurance just in case.

I think it will be difficult to make any money after paying for equipment, advertising etc, what’s your profit per frame and how many do you think you’ll sell ? That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it for fun but I suspect there is something else bike related which would be enjoyable and make a bit more money.

Where do you live ?
I might suggest hooking up with a local builder with too much work to handle.
A lad I know has just set up in business building frames.

look at how much old steel road frames go for these days to

Those of us who dont like aluminium and carbon

Thankyou all very much for your input so far. Many points have been raised that are genuinely worth consideration. I have a plan, some unique ideas and some great support. (I knew my kids would come in handy one day!)

But there’s nothing like hearing other peoples’ perspective. Thanks again.

Shand tells me it’s v tough to make any money at it…as TJ says, a USP may help, but your work would have to be good.

I can be your first custom urban utility bike genuine pig if you want …

Learn Chinese & get a passport.

Learn Chinese & get a passport.

….and go on a carbon laminating course

Article in WMB October 2011 no 127 called “Frame Academy”

Probably just committed forum heresy on STW

My ill-considered and poorly thought out opinion:

There is a particular generation of cyclists out there at the moment for whom a steel frame represents something important. They have grown up wanting one, but have settled for aluminium intially for a price/availability reason.

The advent of carbon frames may have hoovered up some of their desire, but that custom steel frame is still seen as desirable by these folk, who now have the cash and the insight to get one.

As cycling has become aspirational, maybe even middle class, perhaps the new golf, so the market for steel and custom steel has been maintained.

…but…

This desire is confined to a particular age range, despite the retro appeal of steel frames, and so I suspect that the market for such frames is already well supplied. If you are one of the old guard, with a history, with a track record, with the kit and the connections, you can do ok.

But I suspect that it is a changing scene, and as the steel is real boys get what they want, the market for custom steel will contract.

Not a viable business proposition in my honest opinion, more of a hobby.

….and go on a carbon laminating course

AND FORGET BICYCLES…and work in motorsport or Carbon garden gnomes you will make more money. Even the Chinese are looking at reducing costs and to that end there might not be a lot of laminating going on soon just loading charges into moulds.

Building a frame is the easy peasy part.

Richard sachs has an ace blog which puts it into perspective.

Downsize The Fantasy

I’m not trying to put you off but Its well worth a read

Do it if your passion is there or die thinking of what if scenario …

Just make sure you put aside some of your money for safety net.

Work hard, be creative, not greedy and you should be fine.

Build bikes that housewives will ride – a potential market that can be tapped better as the current range are shite. Same apply to gentleman urban utility.

Urban utility but must not be too quirky or expensive with complicated parts like suspension or full suspension. Use steel but not high grade steel like 853. Something tank like but cheap-ish with a modern twist to it. Keep it simple but multi-purpose with plenty of “modules” upgrade. i.e. produce a base model that can be upgraded as required.

🙂

http://www.tour-qtr.com/epaper_4_2011

Has a nice article on building your own steel frame pg6

Why build bikes? How about bespoke 853 wheelchairs. Could be cheaper than the titanium offerings.

Otherwise, have a nice design and build that and see if they come. Or ask Paulus Quiros if he has any subcontracting?

dont be narrow to bycycles.. if you like manipulting tube and can braze/ weld then the classic motorcycle market is massive and we pay top dollar for new look alike frames the wheelchair market is equally strong and going to get much bigger
understand who wants what.. what the competition is.. how much you can make per unit and practice practice practice.
if you can braze as well as the metal work on my trials bikes ( see my blog) then you ll easy get work.. currently 6 months delivery schedule on most ‘new’ pre 65 trials frames/ sub frames..

pre65blogspot

You need a very specific idea of what you want to do, and a pretty high degree of confidence that what you want to do is something which will sell in the market that you operate. There are quite literally a handful of UK/EU custom framebuilders who really make a go of it, as Shand will attest – and he’s certainly one of the most skilled builders out there.

The difficulty you need to overcome (assuming you have the skills to build top notch frames – which are not by any means easy to come by) is mostly one of perception. Such has been the decline of British and European custom framebuilding, and its resurgence driven by the US, that there is an ingrained wariness of UK builders with no history. There are a few have seem to be making a go of it (Demon and Paulos Quiros off the top of my head) but TBH there somehow remains an air of inferiority to the top US builders.

So you are up against that obstacle in the first place. Then to prove you can actually produce high end cycle frames with sufficient differentiation to actually sell them, or earn commissions. Then the wise words of Sachs as linked above about learning the craft. Then the practical aspects of actually running a business – assuming you want to make money from it.

I wouldn’t say it’s impossible, and I sure hope that you and others like you step up and make it happen because it would be great to see. But I have to admit that when I stared into that abyss I stepped back and took a different path.

A good first step might be to go to the Bristol Bespoke show in a couple of months’ time and talk to people there. Or rather contact the folks exhibiting there after as I’m sure they’d rather be selling bikes during the show.

Tom at Demon Cycles said it took two years of practice before he felt happy selling a frame he’d made. There are plenty of very good builders around now.

Personally, I’d be more interested in the bespoke accessories associated with handmade frames – bottle cages, racks, saddle bags and whatnot. Things that those who like to personalise their posh new frame further might purchase for £20-200. Your niche could be ‘not made in China’.