• This topic has 168 replies, 57 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by DezB.
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  • new car time auto or manual??
  • toomba
    Free Member

    never had an auto but thinking about trying one next, they seem to have came on a lot in recent years

    geoffj
    Full Member

    Auto for me for the past 2 years. I’ll not go back to a manual for my main motor.

    garage-dweller
    Full Member

    I recently went “auto” well VW DSG semi auto.

    After 10,000 miles here’s my view on it. Taken against my limited experience of other “proper” autos. Bear in mind some of these experiences are exclusive to DSG/Powershift type boxes.

    It’s bloody brilliant at just driving along, going places driving. Motorway, big dual carriageway slogs etc.

    It is handy and easy round town subject to my traffic jam comment lower down.

    Use the paddle shift or manual mode and it’ll give a decent bit of interaction and useful extra control on faster A road and open B road driving.

    For stop start and even more so in slow crawling traffic it isn’t imo/e as good as a proper (torque converter) auto. It’s always trying to be in second when anyone with half a brain would have a manual in first. It feels sloppy and wrong. This is easily overcome by banging it in manual mode and “forcing” first gear when needed. Sport mode ironically works better than D. This is sod all effort in reality but it is counter intuitive to what you expect from a clutchless car.

    If you have the ability to ballet dance balance a car on the clutch and throttle really well (think awkward off camber reversing / parallel parking uphill type manoeuvres) then you will notice it isn’t as subtle in that kind of uphill manoeuvring. It’s better on the flat though. If you are not ultra delicate then you won’t notice it. I still miss the subtlety but (1) I haven’t yet found any manoeuvres I couldn’t do that I could do in a manual but it occasionally needs a different approach and (2) it’s a compromise worth living with for the other benefits.

    Ultimately would I have another DSG or other auto. Yes definitely.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    Auto.

    Manual is so yesterday.

    garage-dweller
    Full Member

    PS sorry if that’s long winded but I spent months agonising over this in early 2016. As a recent convert and having clocked up a decent number of miles very quickly in mine (less than 6 months in just now) thought a brain dump might give you a feel for how I found the change.

    If you look at my topics started you might find a couple od useful what car/gearbox type threads.

    iainc
    Full Member

    Auto on order for 17 plate, after owning manuals all my driving years (33 of them, years, not manuals 🙂 )

    Have driven quite a few though, however wife never has and is slightly anxious !! She has her own car, but uses mine a fair bit.

    Am getting S-Tronic, whatever that is !

    br
    Free Member

    Auto.

    Driven them for years and on Saturday I pick up my new car – diesel auto, 0-60 in 4.7 seconds 🙂

    weeksy
    Full Member

    I bought a civic auto. Apparently they’re the worst auto box ever.
    I now agree with that.

    garage-dweller
    Full Member

    Am getting S-Tronic, whatever that is !

    I think that’s their name for DSG.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    It feels sloppy and wrong. This is easily overcome by banging it in manual mode and “forcing” first gear when needed

    I’d say the opposite. Because it slips the clutch loads in second the overall experience is much smoother than staying in first. And it can slip the clutch more (at least mine can) because it’s a wet clutch i.e. bathed in oil all the time. Clutches don’t tend to wear, afaik.

    In general, there are a few times it’s jerky or awkward, but those are so trivial, and the advantage of not having to change gear when driving around in town is huge. The time I’m the most grateful for them is in traffic jams.

    garage-dweller
    Full Member

    I’d say the opposite. Because it slips the clutch loads in second the overall experience is much smoother than staying in first.

    It’s that very slipping sensation I hate. To me it feels mechanically wrong to allow a clutch to slip more than is absolutely necessary/at all.

    I’m not sure what the wear characteristics are (I’m on a 6 speed wet clutch box too) but having a pretty delicate right foot I can roll the car through traffic more comfortably in first and it feels better to me and not like stirring porridge.

    I think what we might have concluded is if you can live with that slipping sensation then it might suit you but if you don’t like it then there’s a solution too. 😀

    Edit: and I owe you (molgrips) some thanks for all the comments you made before when I was pre purchase. It genuinely helped me make my mind up.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Most of the cars I drive these days are hired and most are auto.
    To borrow a phrase it jut works…
    Town and city, much easier.
    Open roads, simple
    99% of the time just easier and smoother
    though test drive it and see what the box is like, most of the ones I get are Toyota which seems decent.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Unless I am pulling up a hill, when it’ll stay in second and feel like a bit of a learner driver in the wrong gear*, it just tickles the clutch nicely. I do same if rolling slowly in a manual too in second, cos if then I have to let the clutch back in it’s all smoother.

    * of course it’s not in the wrong gear – it knows full how much torque it can put through what amount of slip.

    I’ll say that it’s a bit less smooth than an old fashioned auto, and it can jerk at times if you floor it whilst it’s changing or if you get a fluffed change where it hasn’t got the right gear pre-selected – but I’m happy to trade that off for better performance, economy and tradeability.

    Edit: and I owe you (molgrips) some thanks for all the comments you made before when I was pre purchase. It genuinely helped me make my mind up.

    Most welcome 🙂

    I’m in favour of learning how to get the best out of things; some people in general (not necessarily here) are quick to moan and complain at the first hint of something different or not quite right.

    toomba
    Free Member

    some nice positive comments helping me to edge towards an auto.
    Seems the way forward with lots of lorries now auto boxes.
    Have noticed some manufacturers quoting lower mpg with autos but only a few mpg

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    It’s not as efficient mechanically so it will have a lower MPG, but how that goes real world is up to how you drive it (It you imagine the automated MPG testing is bases on being in the right gears etc

    agent007
    Free Member

    I’d say if you like driving, are a skilled driver, live near some free flowing twisty roads and like to retain ultimate control of your car then get the manual.

    If driving is just seen as a way to get from A to B, perhaps a chore to be endured, mainly in heavy traffic, you’re happy to sacrifice a little bit of subtlety and control in the name of convenience then get an automatic.

    toomba
    Free Member

    Is the auto any more expensive for servicing?
    As I said never had an auto in 31 years of driving but think nows a good time for a change

    garage-dweller
    Full Member

    Dsg needs an oil change each 40k. Powershift is 30k I think.
    Our local VW dealer charges £180 for that.

    Everything else is the mechanically the same as the manual equivalent.

    plumslikerocks
    Free Member

    You didn’t mention what vehicle or engine combo you were looking at. Another benefit of autos is that they tend to be lower maintenance with high power / torque engines. Big engines can be heavy on clutches etc

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Auto fluid change can be done yourself if you have a dongle to read a measuring block. Costs about £80 for the fluid alone if you want to DIY. So yeah that’s a bit of a downer.

    OTOH you won’t need a clutch. Or shouldn’t – they can fail like anything else, but they aren’t consumables like they are on manuals.

    nickewen
    Free Member

    Interesting comment on the economy. My auto has better quoted mpg than the manual.. Maybe that’s because it has an extra 2 cogs though not because it’s auto. It’s faster to 60 than the manual ‘box too.

    To address to point in the OP – I do think autos have come a long way. I got my first auto (8 speed ZF in a 135) after 13yrs of manuals and I honestly cannot fault it – I can’t think of an instance (in full auto mode) in 12,000 miles where I’ve thought its in the wrong gear. In manual mode I’ve been in the wrong gear but that just demonstrates that the car is cleverer than me! The ZF ‘box is a neat bit of kit but has a traditional torque converter at the end of it unlike the DSGs etc. I think… so is very smooth in comfort mode. Missus wasn’t too sure on the auto but now she’s saying she’ll never have a manual again!

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Have noticed some manufacturers quoting lower mpg with autos but only a few mpg

    First gen of DSG quoted the same performance but slightly less MPG – but better than traditional auto. This is because the system is hydraulically driven and there’s an internal pump that creates drag. But the lack of a break in power transmission compensates for the drag when accelerating flat out.

    The petrol ones now come with a 7 speed dry clutch, and this is quoted as higher mpg than the manual because it has a longer top gear I suppose. Because it’ll shift down to 6th instantly and seamlessly it can have a really long 7th, whereas if you were driving a manual it’d be a pain in the backside to have to keep changing down yourself on hills.

    Re smoothness though – having been in new taxis with DSG they are way smoother than mine, partly because they have common rail engines that can operate at lower revs. I can’t always tell what the hell the box is doing even though I’m really listening to it. Car just moves smoothly.

    tonyg2003
    Full Member

    We have a 5speed auto, a 7 speed auto, a 9 speed auto and a dsg auto. The newer 9spd and dsg are great to drive. Can’t say I ever miss a manual and I’ll only get one if it’s only option for a specific car.

    Capt.Kronos
    Free Member

    I switched to auto this year having been a long time hater. Injury forced the change though, I couldn’t operate a heavy clutch anymore!

    I love it.

    Merc 7 speed auto in the vito – does everything just so nicely. I has a manual mode, but I rarely use it. Sometimes chip it down in advance of an overtake, but otherwise leave it to do it’s thing.

    My next car will very probably also be auto.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    IMO Depends on the car, the larger the more suited to auto it is. My cut off would probably be Golf sized, above that auto ? My last 2 cars have been autos, combined they have done 175,000 miles no issues or notable “excess” servicing bills.

    mitsumonkey
    Free Member

    It’s 2016 I can’t believe we’re having this conversation, auto box obvs. 😆

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    My cut off would probably be Golf sized, above that auto ?

    In some ways smaller cars end up being driven more in cities/stop start etc. auto just works for that, never missed manual on the smaller hire cars

    coolhandluke
    Free Member

    Last 2 cars have been auto. Wouldn’t go back. Best bit is at a junction, rolling to the give way, see an appropriate gap, step on it, you’re away.no faffing to find the right gear first and thereby miss your slot.

    First auto was 3.0 engine, was unsure about stepping down to a 2.0 litre but its well nice still, 8 speed, 5 series touring. Will get the version that is sat nav linked 😯 next time.

    Certainly wouldn’t bother with a manual gearbox again.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Have driven quite a few though, however wife never has and is slightly anxious !!

    I have this problem and it drives me **** mad. She wouldnt drive the auto I had!! **** me you press one pedal to stop and one to go whats there to be nervous of. Besides which in her manual she’s invariably in the wrong gear anyway, never changes down when she needs to and thinks if you get into 5th asap you will go faster!!!!!

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Just recently moved to BMW 8 speed auto here, apparently the best auto box there is (none DSG)

    Effortless in traffic, can’t even feel it change gear.

    Takes away the fun of properly driving a car, and as it’s none DSG there is about a 1 second delay in manual changes. Also in auto mode if you come to overtake it revs to the red line when it really doesn’t need to.

    I would say if a car is a thing to get from A-B and you do lots of town driving then auto. If you enjoy driving and do less town driving then manual.

    toomba
    Free Member

    great to hear so many positive comments in favour of autos.
    Either Land Rover Evoque or one of the later Freelanders L/R dealer has one of each so will test drive both in Auto

    wobbliscott
    Free Member

    I’d never go back to manual unless I had to. Those who think they can drive a manual are kidding themselves and have to ‘unlearn’ what they’ve learned. A modern auto will be in the right gear more of the time. Part of the reason why manual-lovers/auto haters think the auto gearbox is doing it all wrong, is actually because they’ve been doing it all wrong all these years and are expecting behaviour from the auto box which is wrong and the box is not programmed for. If you just sit back and let the auto box do its thing they’re great. At slow speeds if you’re not positive with the throttle you can cause some confusion with the box (again driver error not gearbox error) but if you are positive with the throttle in 99% of cases the auto box is bang on. You can also influence the box, so if you feel auto boxes change up too quickly or change down too urgently then you can anticipate and influence that with small well-timed movements of the throttle once you’re used to the car and box to either delay a gear change or trigger one a bit earlier.

    kerley
    Free Member

    I have had automatics for 10 years and as long as there is an option to change gears manually they are good. The improvements in last 10 or so years have been around dual clutch gearboxes where changing manually actually works rather than waiting a second or two for the gearbox to do what you requested.

    I actually fancied a change and went back to manual with a new car in March. Big mistake, now selling it and going back to an auto at a great loss as expected when selling a new car after so few months.

    The manual is great when there is no traffic but those times are just getting less and less. The rest of the time it is a chore.

    fisha
    Free Member

    I had a freelander manual, and have driven a number of evoques. I’d say the auto is better especially with paddle shifters in those cars.

    The manual had a grabby clutch which was difficult to engage smoothly at slower speeds.

    gonefishin
    Free Member

    I’ve just switched to an auto, the BMW 8speed box and while it has a lot of advantages things like pulling away at roundabouts are a bit slower as the box doesn’t know what you’re about to do. I also think the auto start stop functionality in my partners manual Golf is a better system.

    I still go for the clutch occasionally.

    thebees
    Free Member

    Ferrari don’t make a manual car any more.

    br
    Free Member

    Either Land Rover Evoque or one of the later Freelanders L/R dealer has one of each so will test drive both in Auto

    My OH has a 12 plate Freelander auto, the 190. Drives real nice and a quality autobox. Not sure of the Evoque but the Discovery Sport I drove had a 9-speed autobox.

    For those that hate auto’s my wife was the same. When I met her (20 years ago) I had a Primera 2.0i auto, she ‘suggested’ only old men drove autos. She then borrowed it a few times, and when she changed her car, she bought an auto.

    IME few folk can actually drive better/faster/safer with a manual than an auto, and based on my looking for a new car recently, once into premium/decent bhp the majority are now autos.

    Yak
    Full Member

    I’ve had manuals all my driving life. On the odd occasion years ago I would hire an auto. Without doubt they were always awful things – sluggish, changing gear mid corner etc. Recently I drove a big 9sp merc auto and was blown away with how good it was. Now this was well out of my car league, but if this is a sign of things to come/ trickle down, then I would happily swap to an auto.

    kerley
    Free Member

    once into premium/decent bhp the majority are now autos

    Unfortunately not the case for small cheaper cars (where auto would be a great advantage as they are mostly driven in traffic)

    Guessing it is because the additional cost of auto option (usually around £1K) makes up a big % of the overall car cost?

    oldbloke
    Free Member

    Recently had to make this call when not wanting to lose everything I like about a manual for all the highland roads I drive. Test drove the VW DSG box for long enough to get happy, which is just as well as manual isn’t an option on the car I’m going for.

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