Our neighbour, who has vociferously objected to the plans / appeal / further plans and who has generally made life a right royal pain in the arse during the whole process – party wall shenanigans, threatening us with injunctions etc.

(At this point I should say that he has developed the same extension on his land and we have done everything by the book).

I was not on site but today he went around again to complain to the builders who are digging up the existing slab that they weren’t doing it correctly. I reckon some fairly fruity language may have been dished out to him and he threw a brick at the jcb digger and then when told (I suspect) to f-off by the driver threw a brick at him. He is 65plus and pretty weedy so not sure it would have been an overarm hurl – I need to get more info from the builders – but they were pretty incredulous about the episode. One of the builders (there were 3 up there) recorded him after the act on his mobile with a brick in his hand which wasn’t thrown but the builders were saying in the video “go on throw another brick then”.

I do believe the neighbour has some temper on him as last time I spoke with him months ago also got rather shouty.

My partner went up there after the incident and spoke to the builders and the neighbours. The neighbour’s side of the story is that the builders were being abusive and he “got their attention by throwing a brick in the foundations”.

My opinion is that I should speak to the builders tomorrow and see if they want to pursue it (they may not be overly bothered but they did threaten to call the police on him at the time). Either way this is assault and I think at a minimum the police should have a word with him – if not pressing charges then at least to record the incident in case he further makes a pratt of himself.

Cheers

It is your responsibility, as the Employer, to manage the Health and Safety on site. If bricks are being thrown around on site, and someone gets hurt, then you are liable. I’d call the police, regardless of what the builder wants to do, just to formalise that you have taken action.

Edit: I’m not excusing the neighbour’s behaviour, but if his complaint is that the foundations aren’t being dug properly, then call in your party wall surveyor to inspect and make a judgement.

It is your responsibility, as the Employer, to manage the Health and Safety on site. If bricks are being thrown around on site, and someone gets hurt, then you are liable

Is that true? As it sounds like something that isn’t true.

Hang on, just going to get some popcorn.

Hang on, just going to get some popcorn.

You’ll do no such thing!

*chucks brick at pete*

9 Protecting members of the public, including your employees
If you are an employer, or you have members of the public visiting your premises, you need to be sure that they are protected from the risks of construction work.

From and HSE document on CDM Regulations 2015

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg411.pdf

CCTV might be a good idea.

OP isn’t running a business though

Doesn’t have to be. It applies to domestic projects as well.

Generally speaking, it is down to the Contractor to manage health and safety on their site, during the works. However, you, as the Employer, have to make sure they are running the site in a safe manner, including not letting any unauthorised people on site.

In addition, it is the role of the employer to ensure they hire competent people to carry out the work for them.

Is the op not the client? Head builder guy being the employer?

What about this bit then….

“Domestic clients
If you are having work done on your own home, or the home of a family member, and it is not in connection with a business, you will be a domestic client. The only responsibility a domestic client has under CDM 2015 is to appoint a principal designer and a principal contractor when there is more than one contractor. However, if you do not do this, (as is common practice) your duties as a domestic client are automatically transferred to the contractor or principal contractor. If you already have a relationship with your designer before the work starts, the designer can take on your duties, provided there is a written agreement between you and the designer to do so.”

Bongo, you nearly had my eye out with that brick!

These guys are, I think subbies to the main contractor who I think is responsible for the H&S.

CCTV is a good idea. Sadly a day too late …

FWIW the wall that is being protected is a pretty crappy garden wall which is an L shape which then ties into the side of his house. It would probably cost about 300 quid to rebuild ….. we also have a structural engineer (part of the party wall award) going on site tomorrow to check the foundations for this wall.

No. You don’t suddenly become MD of a building firm if you get them in to do a job on your house.

Bongo, you nearly had my eye out with that brick!

Fortunately, I am just the home owner so am classed as a domestic client. You will have to take up any H&S issue with my principal contractor…or at a pinch, Mikey74 😉

Is the op not the client? Head builder guy being the employer?

Nope! Under building contracts, the employer is the person who is commissioning the work.

When its all done dont ask why the foundations go deeper than originaly quoted.

What about this bit then….

“Domestic clients
If you are having work done on your own home, or the home of a family member, and it is not in connection with a business, you will be a domestic client. The only responsibility a domestic client has under CDM 2015 is to appoint a principal designer and a principal contractor when there is more than one contractor. However, if you do not do this, (as is common practice) your duties as a domestic client are automatically transferred to the contractor or principal contractor. If you already have a relationship with your designer before the work starts, the designer can take on your duties, provided there is a written agreement between you and the designer to do so.”

Bongo, you nearly had my eye out with that brick!

You still have to ensure that the site you have given them to work in is as safe as can be.

To be honest, its probably worth requesting the builders do not enter into conversation with the neighbour…they don’t have to live next to the guy for however many years in the future, and if they think you are siding with them, they may not handle the situation as well as they should…

“go on throw another brick then”

…request they call you if hassled, or the police directly if they feel he is an immediate threat.

spooky – the builders have been told to ignore him – it was fairly inevitable that he would try to cause problems on site – in fact the other day he forced one of the guys who was up there on his own to stop working as it was a Saturday morning and the party wall award says they can only work Mon-Fri. The only thing was he was doing nothing to do with the party wall.

I’m guessing that he probably pushed them too far hence they told him to bog off and he lost it.

It does’t matter: The working hours usually apply to the whole project, unless specifically stated in the award.

As I said: If his beef is the way the foundations are being dug, then call in your Party Wall Surveyor to adjudicate….. and then rub your neighbour’s nose in it when they say everything is fine

Would the onus not be on the builders to make that initial call as you as a domestic client would’t know what a safe site is?

Admittedly a gobie brick wanging bellend doesn’t sound that safe…for anyone.

Would the onus not be on the builders to make that initial call as you as a domestic client would’t know what a safe site is?

This is where it all becomes a bit grey. If the employer has an architect, then they will usually carry out the Employer’s duties for them, including undertaking risk assessments and site inspections. However, the Employer still has duties under the CDM Regs, including taking action if they think the builder isn’t carrying out their duty in a safe manner.

Maybe my language was a bit strong in my initial post, so sorry about that, but as this seems an issue between the OP and neighbour, I would suggest it is up to the OP to ensure it doesn’t go any further.

In short: Yes, I think you should call the police, if bricks are being thrown around.

this bit keeps getting ignored

The only responsibility a domestic client has under CDM 2015 is to appoint a principal designer and a principal contractor when there is more than one contractor.

CDM 2015 transfers the liability to the contractor, unless the domestic client sets his dogs on the builders he has no liability. A domestic client can’t be “competent” as defined in the regulations

The only responsibility a domestic client has under CDM 2015 is to appoint a principal designer and a principal contractor when there is more than one contractor.

But has the OP transferred his responsibilities to a Principal Designer? He hasn’t said so.

So you told the neighbour you’d do mon to fri then got someone in on a sat ?

Hmmm.

You have no responsibilities with regard to HSE and CDM. As a domestic client your contractor assumes these for you. You aren’t ’employing’ anyone so you have no obligations as an employer. It’s a contract for services between yourself and the principal contractor.

I’d report him as he seems like a piece of shit. Who’s to say he doesn’t start throwing bricks at you at the weekend?

Just tell your neighbour that you may be having a new patio laid too. Make sure you wink as you tell him 😈

You have no responsibilities with regard to HSE and CDM. As a domestic client your contractor assumes these for you. You aren’t ’employing’ anyone so you have no obligations as an employer. It’s a contract for services between yourself and the principal contractor.

I’d report him as he seems like a piece of shit. Who’s to say he doesn’t start throwing bricks at you at the weekend?

I’ve re-read the docs and yep, that is correct. Sorry, I don’t usually run projects of this type.

Having said that, my suggestions that you A) Call the police, and B) call in your Party Wall Surveyor if there is doubt, still stand.

mikey74 – Member

If you are an employer, or you have members of the public visiting your premises, you need to be sure that they are protected from the risks of construction work.

Since when was someone coming over and throwing a brick at the workers a risk of construction work?

Since when was someone coming over and throwing a brick at the workers a risk of construction work?

An HSE inspector may ask “how did he get the brick?”, ” Are the bricks stored safely and securely”, “is the site untidy, so bricks are lying around for anyone to pick up”, “is the site not secure, allowing a member of the public just to wander in”.

I’m saying these are correct, just playing devil’s advocate.

We had a similar situation with an older neighbour, went all the way to court in the end. My suggestion is don’t bother asking builders if they want to pursue it, just call the cops and tell them about his threatening/violent behaviour (there are witnesses). They will probably come and speak to him but will say they can’t do much as its a civil matter. If it’s anything like our case he will do similar things several more times before you complete (when a delivery blocks him in or drilling is too noisy or something falls on his land). He’s probably got too much time on his hands and little else to concern himself with.

136stu – sounds sadly familiar. I’m sure the adage life’s too short wouldn’t be heard here either.

footflaps – builders are allowed to work saturday mornings around here. The party wall agreement is purely about the relevant wall (or part of wall) not to do with the works as a whole.

We have 2 party wall surveyors (we had an agreed surveyor via email but then he wanted his own – actually he wanted to represent himself – when he wasn’t happy with the notices…). As part of the award we need to have a a structural surveyor write a report regarding the best way to safeguard his wall – the surveyors will then put this in a method statement – a crazy amount of overhead for a very basic structure but c’est la vie.

Ultimately though you can’t go lobbing bricks around.

An HSE inspector may ask “how did he get the brick?”, ” Are the bricks stored safely and securely”, “is the site untidy, so bricks are lying around for anyone to pick up”, “is the site not secure, allowing a member of the public just to wander in”.

You just done your NEBOSH or something?

You have no duty under the CDM Regs.
You are not responsible for the safe storage of bricks, the contractor is.
The HSE will not be interested in you but in the contractor if at all (I think that would be unlikely).
You have no civil liability (ie for compensation) for the criminal act of a third party (and trespasser).
Throwing bricks is assault and he is possibly also committing an aggravated trespass, both of which are criminal offences, so get the police involved. This may just destroy any remaining relationship you have with him but a warning from the police may be enough.

could you just get the builders back to brick-up all his windows/doors overnight?

Can you not just hit him over the head with a spade and bury him in the footings?

Brick up his back passage should sort it.

You have no duty under the CDM Regs.

While that was true for CDM2007, the 2015 update removed the exemption for domestic Clients (although strangely domestic clients can delegate their duties to others and there is an implication that this will be done unless otherwise stated). Either way the HSE aren’t going to be fussed by one old codger chucking bricks!

lots of chat about rules and regulations and stuff..

He threw a frickin brick at someone! Call the police!

or alternatively just do nothing and wait for him to do something worse next time – up to you.

Had a word with the lads today. Transpires that he threw a brick which hit the mini JCB – overarm so it wasn’t a soft lob. Driver got pretty verbally angry by all accounts and neighbour claimed he picked up another brick in “self defence”. The boys got him on film holding the brick whilst also giving the neighbour some verbals. They say they’ve never seen anyone like this before ….

Anyway neighbour already reported (without me knowing) it this morning when I told him that throwing bricks around isn’t acceptable.

I reported it to the police who have had a telephone convo with the neighbour so that is enough. Its on record so hopefully he’ll bit more circumspect next time he decides to be a pillock.

The police, I hope, are also going to tell him to stop filming the builders with his ipad all the time :-/