• This topic has 36 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by Drac.
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  • Near death experience in rented house
  • plumslikerocks
    Free Member

    So this afternoon, one of the kitchen wall units spontaneously came off the wall and landed on my 5 year old, cutting his lip and gums. He’ll be ok but it could have been much much worse.

    Anyway, it looks like the units are each fixed with four of these:

    small screw-in fixings

    I know that there has been at least one STW thread about plasterboard fixings with the usual range of opinion, but my question is – would I be justified in expecting the landlord to come and check and replace all of the other fixings for the rest of the units?

    plumslikerocks
    Free Member

    sorry, wrong forum

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    Sorry to hear this but those are not suitable for kitchen units in plasterboard . Not even close.

    Bregante
    Full Member

    Absolutely right you would. That’s shocking. Glad the little fella’s OK.

    nickjb
    Free Member

    Similar happened in our old student house many years ago. It was a plastered brick wall and cupboards came down on a couple of housemates. Landlord replastered the wall as it was crumbling away.

    Those fixings are quick and easy and nice for pictures and small cabinets but no way suitable for kitchen units. Needs investigating and fixing.

    mintimperial
    Full Member

    Jeez. I would be speaking to a lawyer straight away and getting seriously **** uppity about this. Damn right you’re entitled to get him out to look at the place, if you’re not already considering hauling his cheapskate piece of shit arse to court for compensation he’s incredibly lucky. I am a landlord by the way (via work, not buy to let), shoddy work like that leading to physical harm to your tenants is Officially Not On.

    I sincerely hope your kid gets better soon. Assume your house is a death trap until your landlord has proved otherwise. Oh and take loads of pictures of everything relating to the current injury, right now.

    allthepies
    Free Member

    Perhaps give the landlord the chance to sort things out first ?

    The landlord may have bought the place with the shoddy cabinets already in situ and not have had anything to do with the install.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    I’d be surprised if the landlord doesn’t volunteer to do it if you tell them what happened. Potential liability for them is huge.

    Awful for you and your child – hope they heal quickly and completely.

    mintimperial
    Full Member

    Perhaps give the landlord the chance to sort things out first ?

    The landlord may have bought the place with the shoddy cabinets already in situ and not have had anything to do with the install.

    That’s the landlord’s lookout, and that’s what landlord insurance is for. Sure, give them chance to sort things out, but OP is entitled to rather more than just checking a few fixings here.

    plumslikerocks
    Free Member

    Jeez. I would be speaking to a lawyer straight away

    Won’t be doing that – landlord has been spot on so far. The property was fully refurbed before we moved in. He used the same contractors for most of the work and the bits you can see are of a high standard I.e. Kitchen, downstairs loo, main bathroom and en-suite all brand new and immaculate. They’ve obviously let themselves down a lot here but I don’t blame the landlord for trusting them on the basis of everything else.

    No ethical point in sue-ing as we haven’t lost anything. I’d rather have the goodwill in the bank come return of deposit time.

    Thanks for the feedback on the fixings though.

    legend
    Free Member

    bits you can see are of a high standard I.e. Kitchen

    erm….. experience suggests otherwise?

    jb72
    Free Member

    erm….. experience suggests otherwise?

    Exactly. Trying to attach something heavy like a cupboard to plasterboard is never going to end well. Those fasteners are awful … not fit for purpose.

    nickjb
    Free Member

    Trying to attach something heavy like a cupboard to plasterboard is never going to end well.

    You can comfortably attach a cupboard to plasterboard you just need to use the right fixing method (which isn’t those particular fixings used in that way)

    timba
    Free Member

    I’d be interested to know how well everything else has been done, have you seen the gas and electricity certificates, for example??

    spooky_b329
    Full Member

    Those fasteners are awful … not fit for purpose.

    There is a big difference between ‘not fit for purpose’ and ‘not suitable for the job’.

    Those fasteners are excellent, when used for suitable things such as hanging a clock on the wall. Kitchen cupboards are just about the most unwieldy thing you would ever fix to a wall, heavy and the depth creates a strong pull out force.

    paulosoxo
    Free Member

    have you seen the gas and electricity certificates, for example??

    We’ve gone full daily mail here, just because a kitchen fitter has used the wrong fixing for the application doesn’t mean the gas man has made an arse of things too.

    Drac
    Full Member

    Jeez. I would be speaking to a lawyer straight away and getting seriously **** uppity about this.

    Some what overreaction there.

    bigyinn
    Free Member

    Speak to the landlord calmly and factually first, pointing out that it fell on your son.
    Base your appropriate response upon his reaction.

    mintimperial
    Full Member

    Some what overreaction there.

    No Drac, I don’t think it was given the OP’s first post implied that the landlord was being awkward. Perhaps I misread:

    would I be justified in expecting the landlord to come and check and replace all of the other fixings for the rest of the units?

    …but that could certainly be taken as “Landlord won’t even come to the property to view damage”. Getting lawyers involved would focus the landlord’s mind on his responsibilities. His second post clarified that this isn’t the situation, so I can only apologise in retrospect for having some empathy and climbing to the top of the angry tree – but if something like that happened to my kid because of another person’s neglect and incompetence I’d be absolutely **** livid.

    We’ve gone full daily mail here, just because a kitchen fitter has used the wrong fixing for the application doesn’t mean the gas man has made an arse of things too.

    No it doesn’t, but if a landlord has employed cowboys for fitting a kitchen then he may well have cut corners elsewhere, for example by not having a gas cert at all, or by using Dodgy Des to do some rewiring too. Far too many BTL landlords view their properties as infinite money presses, rather than a job with responsibilities. OP is well advised to take a look at things rather more closely than he might otherwise have done to avoid something horrible happening again.

    doris5000
    Full Member

    I can only apologise in retrospect for having some empathy

    😆 gonna try that line on the wife next time i’m in the doghouse

    avdave2
    Full Member

    if you’re not already considering hauling his cheapskate piece of shit arse to court for compensation he’s incredibly lucky.

    Wow you not only know that the landlord put the kitchen in but that they are male, you really must be psychic.

    dooosuk
    Free Member

    those are not suitable for kitchen units in plasterboard

    They’re fine for attaching the base units to a wall. Definitely not acceptable for attaching wall units though!

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “They’re fine for attaching the base units to a wall”

    rather you than me . especially in a rental.

    cbmotorsport
    Free Member

    I would be speaking to a lawyer straight away and getting seriously **** uppity about this. Damn right you’re entitled to get him out to look at the place, if you’re not already considering hauling his cheapskate piece of shit arse to court for compensation he’s incredibly lucky. I am a landlord by the way (via work, not buy to let), shoddy work like that leading to physical harm to your tenants is Officially Not On.

    The fact that the landlord may have paid a kitchen fitter to fit the kitchen, and expected him to do it properly is evidently lost on you. As a landlord, would you stand over your kitchen fitter and inspect their work? Would you take the units off the wall to inspect the fixings once they’re gone? No.

    The only time I could get arsey with a landlord over this type of incident is if it was a DIY job, and the landlord had been negligent.

    I would expect him to refit all the units immediately with the correct fixings though.

    mintimperial
    Full Member

    Jesus, does anyone else want to pile in?

    The fact that the landlord may have paid a kitchen fitter to fit the kitchen, and expected him to do it properly is evidently lost on you.

    I am a landlord, I know what I’m talking about! The contractor may have been negligent in the first instance, but the landlord is still responsible to the tenant to ensure that all work done on the property is safe. It is the landlord’s problem to fix irrespective of who was holding the screwdrivers.

    Look, I’m on the OP’s side here. I was trying to offer helpful advice based on his original post, yes I got a bit spirited, but it actually was a child’s face this time. Anyone else wanting to give me a verbal kicking for caring about this stuff can pre-emptively have a “**** off, alright?” Shut up unless you’re trying to help the OP.

    allthepies
    Free Member

    Angry much ?

    pjt201
    Free Member

    Calm down dear, it’s only an internet forum.

    Still, I wouldn’t suggest resorting to lawyers would be the best course of action. And I’m not sure what you think a civil action would result in, if the landlord is found responsible for the injury of a child, in the uk at least, it’s a criminal matter and any compensation the child is entitled to would be set by the court as part of that. In a civil case the best you could expect is recompense for any medical bills and loss of earnings a parent has in dealing with this along with any out of pocket expenses for rectifying the kitchen. We don’t live in America (thank god) so a $3million lawsuit for “mental anguish” would get nowhere in our courts.

    sandwicheater
    Full Member

    I’d burn the house down and start again.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    I have landlord insurance that covers exactly this – and I as a landlord would be checking it all anyway….

    bails
    Full Member

    And I’m not sure what you think a civil action would result in, if the landlord is found responsible for the injury of a child, in the uk at least, it’s a criminal matter and any compensation the child is entitled to would be set by the court as part of that. In a civil case the best you could expect is recompense for any medical bills and loss of earnings a parent has in dealing with this along with any out of pocket expenses for rectifying the kitchen.

    Sorry, but the bits in bold just aren’t true.

    cbmotorsport
    Free Member

    It is the landlord’s problem to fix irrespective of who was holding the screwdrivers.

    Yes, exactly. Hence why I said this:

    I would expect him to refit all the units immediately with the correct fixings though.

    😯

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Im agreeing with mintimperial on this one

    if it was my kid, id be struggling whether to hit or sue the landlord and Im generally a cowardly pacifist

    project
    Free Member

    stuff happens, what if the landlord or his family had fitted the units, what if ther o/p had fitted them on the advice of what fixing to use by the local diy store or internet forum, so many ifs, an accident waiting to happen and its happened to me, somebody failed to secure a unit onto a wall and it fell on me, it hurt, i just securely fixed it back up .

    In rentals always best to fix a 2 x 1 baton onto wall below base of unit, hold unit on this baton and mark position of fixing plates, fix fixing plates onto wall then fit another baton to top of unit, and secure to wall, then screw up through unit into top batton or use small angel brackets.

    Finally one bodgit and scarperist, used large nails hammered into studs through back of unit and then bent over, worked ok on base units, till we had to remove the units to get at hidden pipes and cables, and found even worse with the electrics and pipes.

    plumslikerocks
    Free Member

    Just an update….my boy is fine – been to dentists to have his cut gums looked at. Need to keep an eye on him for potential nerve damage but chances are he’s going to be fine. Reported the incident following morning – all at letting agents upset and concerned by the incident. Co-owner of agents came round in person with pressies for the wee man.

    Landlord came round with his joiner same day and checked and put new fixings into all other units. He managed to antagonise my Mrs slightly by asking her if the boy has been swinging on the cupboard door. To be honest it was the first question I asked, but not sure I would have done in his position. After all, with the right fixings, I should have been able to swing off it…

    The way I see it, if I bought a house, I wouldn’t have all the kitchen units off the wall to check the fixings. If I paid a kitchen fitter, I wouldn’t stand over them to see what fixings they were using. So even though we could no doubt take the landlords insurance for a couple of grand, it doesn’t seem fair to do so when we’re not out of pocket.

    Not sure I’d fancy being a landlord though…..

    allthepies
    Free Member

    Good to hear your son is likely to come out of this relatively unscathed.

    project
    Free Member

    today a nursing home owner has been fined 150,000 pounds after failure to secure a wardrobe to a wall and alarms not working, like i said accidents happen, but some are preventable like securing a wardrobe, or fixing alarms.

    Glad everythings ok for all and a good learning experience for all.

    Drac
    Full Member

    A great outcome I’d say.

    Co-owner of agents came round in person with pressies for the wee man.

    Some sweets?

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