Was watching a brief feature on BBC breakfast this morning where Pickles was having a pop at council CCTV vans and saying they should stop using them for parking enforcement blah blah blah, what surprised me was the little interviews they did with members of the public. They asked somewhere between 5 and 10 ( what I assume were ) random people what they wanted to change and all but one of them said they wanted more car parking spaces, including one womb who said she lived just off the high street!

I was a bit surprised that so many wanted more space taken up by car parks, not a single one of them said they wanted better park and ride, or buses or any form of improved public transport, no, they all wanted more of their town to be converted to car parking so they could park closer tithe shops 🙁

I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised but it did make me a little sad to think that the default response is ‘ pave it over! More cars! ‘ when that’s probably the last thing most towns need..

Discuss or ignore at your leisure…

I didn’t see it on the tele but did read about it. Apparently ‘Public confidence is strengthened in CCTV if it is used to tackle crime, not to raise money for council coffers‘. Are they currently used to fine legally parked vehicles?

I saw it and thought the public responses were odd too. It almost came across as though they’d been asked a different question to what the article was reporting on.

Verses – that was kind of my thoughts too, it’s like they were trying to munge two different themes into the one feature…

Are they currently used to fine legally parked vehicles?

apparently some CCTV can be used to fine illegally parked cars

My attitude, park legally and you won’t get fined, oh, and for most of the pro car park spaces people get off your fat arse and do some f****** excercise like walk to the f***ing shop!!!

The last thing most towns need is parking everywhere, problem is there are a LOT of lazy people for whom the idea of walking is alien, as for riding a bike!!!!

IMO part of the parking issue could be solved by banning stupid sized cars. How many people need a car with more than 4/5 seats, how many people need fashion pickups, SUVs, etc etc. This comes back to too many people seeing cars as an ego extension rather than a tool to get them from a to b.

I would actually like to see stricter enforcement of parking, i know roads that are dangerous to cycle because of illegal parking yet nothing is seemingly done.

Are they currently used to fine legally parked vehicles?

yep, park on the high street, photograph everyone breaking the law, post them tickets.

Pickles is a tosser, frankly.

Are they currently used to fine legally parked vehicles?

I think the problems come from what are marked as no parking areas around town centres. Are local councils trying to keep streets open for traffic, or are they just pushing people into chargeable parking.

IMO there is a lot of re-thinking to be done on urban planning in town centres in the UK, parking is just part of that.

Proper made sense that Pickles Bloke.

B’out time too..

I think the real issue is that the government is actively attacking local councils and wants to deprive them of this source of income ,without which they are significantly more vulnerable rather than giving a shite about motorists ,at the end of the day if you park illegally you get done, end of.

I mostly agree with mrmo, the only change towards leniency I’d consider making is to allow a traffic warden to disregard a ticket if the car owner returns while it’s being written.

I suspect it’s a tiny percentage of tickets written, it would make TWs seem less jobsworthy and creates a bit of good will rather than animosity towards someone who’s just doing their job.

Other than that, the rules are known and mostly in place for good reasons, so tough.

Are they currently used to fine legally parked vehicles?

yep, park on the high street, photograph everyone breaking the law, post them tickets.

😀

I think the problems come from what are marked as no parking areas around town centres. Are local councils trying to keep streets open for traffic, or are they just pushing people into chargeable parking.

or are they trying to pedestrianise/restrict access to areas and make them more pleasant for people to be? I guess the question is do we actually want to live our lives in places where it is nice to be or in places dodging traffic, dealing with noise, pollution, etc.

To be clear i am not anti car, just there is a time and place for cars, and most of the current use is down to laziness pure and simple.

Let me get this right. A government minister is telling local councils to stop enforcing the law? Or just one specific law, at least?

I may be being cynical, but…. I wonder which party the kind of person who thinks they can ignore the rules, sod everyone else, and park wherever they bloody well feel like, is likely to vote for?

they wanted to change and all but one of them said they wanted more car parking spaces, including one womb who said she lived just off the high street!

Perhaps she has a car and wants to park somewhere near her house. Maybe she either works in a shop on/near the high street or has invested in a business there and would like to keep it running.

I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised but it did make me a little sad to think that the default response is ‘ pave it over! More cars! ‘ when that’s probably the last thing most towns need.

Towns need visitors to bring money into them. Different means of transport will suit different users better.

For example, I live between 2 places:

Place 1 – I would never dream of driving into the local town, it would be a waste of time and effort as there’s a tram going past my door every 7 minutes.

Place 2 – I would never dream of taking public transport, it would take 2.5 hours to get into town rather than 20 mins by car. Oh and the bus only runs limited hours so you’d have to plan well to get there and back in a day.

nickjb.

It was a reading fail, not a getting the point one 😉

I would actually like to see stricter enforcement of parking, i know roads that are dangerous to cycle because of illegal parking yet nothing is seemingly done.

couldnt agree more, was hit by a woman opening a passenger door last year after her bloke parked up (illegally) by cutting across in front of me

first thing she said was ‘youll have to move or ill be late for work’

Perhaps she has a car and wants to park somewhere near her house. Maybe she either works in a shop on/near the high street or has invested in a business there and would like to keep it running.

Perhaps, but then most people, myself included, research such things before moving and one of the reasons we don’t live in town itself is because it would be a nightmare to park. And if public transport links were better she would probably find less people driving in and thus the existing parking serving the residents better rather than being full of people driving into town.

Businesses, especially those in the high street need people to visit, but they don’t have to arrive by car, as you yourself said later on, some towns have very good public transport systems, buses, trams, park and ride, I’ll hazard a guess that that easy access is part of what keeps them busy, throwing more parking at a town is not the answer, getting more people there is and I personally don’t think that cars are the primary way to do that.

For your ‘Place 2’ example do you think the solution there is more car parking, because the public transport doesn’t meet your needs, or better public transport?

Which would be better long term?

For your ‘Place 2’ example do you think the solution there is more car parking, because the public transport doesn’t meet your needs, or better public transport?

Parking is not any sort of a problem. Public transport would be prohibitively expensive to provide ( well, not if it was to my village alone, but it would be if it was to every little village in N. Yorks/all of England ).

Businesses, especially those in the high street need people to visit, but they don’t have to arrive by car, as you yourself said later on,

My point was more that one solution does not fit all. I’d love to see more ( financially viable ) public transport and better access for those on bikes, but if we plan only for what suits people on a bike forum then we would fail a rather large proportion of the population.

Place 2 – I would never dream of taking public transport, it would take 2.5 hours to get into town rather than 20 mins by car. Oh and the bus only runs limited hours so you’d have to plan well to get there and back in a day

sounds liek you need a bike 😉

The problem (apart from that Pickles idiot), is that the public has been hoodwinked into thinking the car is the answer to all their problems.

Here you go, a nice new BMW or Kashkow, sit in that and everything will be brilliant! Unfortunately the truth is the car is a totally rubbish answer to everyone’s problems. Cars ARE the problem.

So when Pickles or joe public is asked to talk about parking problems they say they must create more parking spaces and get rid of parking cameras.

The answer is LESS cars. The government should be making these suggestions so people begin to see them as alternatives rather than fixating on how we can make things better while keep cars in the loop.

If there are congestion issues in a town, it is due to too many people needing to go to that town, the only thing that will sort that issue out (short of removing the people), is to change the way we think about getting those people in and out. Not unsurprisingly, bicycles are a big cog in that solution. Not everyone has to ride them about the place, but enough people to make a difference.

Be part of that difference.

Parking is not any sort of a problem.

Well then this isn’t likely to be one of those places with people asking for more car parking spaces then is it, so doesn’t really fit with the example.

Public transport would be prohibitively expensive to provide ( well, not if it was to my village alone, but it would be if it was to every little village in N. Yorks/all of England ).

I’m not necessarily talking about public transport between towns and cities (that’s another kettle of fish entirely!), but IN towns and cities.

Remote town/village and using the car to get to a Park and Ride, bus into town would seem to fit with this scenario, I see and hear so many people driving into our town/city and then complaining about either not being able to park, or the cost of it, when we have 4 (possibly 5) massive Park and Ride facilities with oodles of room, free parking and regular and affordable buses in from there which are actually quicker once you take out the time you spend faffing with trying to park at the other end.

I know that this will never cover 100% of cases for those that are less mobile, have a large object to collect etc. but the truth of the matter is that most people driving into towns and cities do not need to, and the provision would still be there for those that needed it and it would be a lot more accessible to them with more and better use of public transport.

When you look at it from a purely logical POV its a bit odd… you have a city, easily modelled in most cases by a circle drawn on a map, you have many people already in the circle, and many many coming in from outside the circle, they are all trying to get to the centre, thus the density increases, and we are trying to accommodate packing all those cars from inside AND outside the circle into an ever decreasing space as you get closer to the centre. It just doesn’t work!

Use of shared/mass transport serving from the perimeter inwards is the obvious answer, the cars stop entering the city, the people continue but on more efficient modes of transport, and pick up more along the way, the space previously used to park cars is now available for people, shops, recreation and is also arguably more available for those that really do need to bring the car in.

Ideal perfect world maybe but it certainly makes sense….

*disclaimer, yes I do own a car, no I don’t use it unless necessary.

The media do this all the time. If they genuinely asked five random / sensible / well-adjusted members of society how to improve town centre access, the answers would be so boring, no-one would watch the news.

I was a bit surprised that so many wanted more space taken up by car parks

I’m convinced 90% of the population want to be able to drive door to door and only have to walk a couple of meters either end. See the bunching of cars close to the supermarket doors and abuse of disabled spaces.

They pretty much don’t give a chuff about anything else.

Businesses wanting car parking is a bit tricky. Supermarkets will always win for drivers, cheaper, easier parking. High street shops could be more about a nice place to shop. A blogger had a look at high streets near him 1 2 3, what he said seemed to make sense, dunno how it bears out in other areas. But there’s a spar and a chemist near our house, always got shoppers (badly or double) parked outside, dunno how badly they would be affected if parking was restricted.

I was a bit surprised that so many wanted more space taken up by car parks

Like what Henry Ford said “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

Councils get the parking fees. They don’t get a bean from the bus companies. Not in their interest to promote bus lanes really.

You have to close this loop. That and the cost of public transport – even at £1.40 an hour parking it’s cheaper to drive into town with a family of four than get the bus.

Still can’t see Pickles argument – you can’t use cars with cameras, but it’s perfectly okay for the traffic warden to use a camera and do the same job. 🙄

That and the cost of public transport – even at £1.40 an hour parking it’s cheaper to drive into town with a family of four than get the bus

thing is how many people drive a family of 4 into town compared to just driving themselves into town? Make public transport cheaper faster and more reliable than it is now and lots of people will still drive.

thing is how many people drive a family of 4 into town compared to just driving themselves into town? Make public transport cheaper faster and more reliable than it is now and lots of people will still drive.

average car occupancy from 2010 traffic survey is 1.2 rush hour and 2 for holidays.

those are the ones i remember, i suspect they set the top and bottom end of car usage.

As for your 1.40? no idea where is that cheap, but then again day parking in cheltenham town centre, last time i had reason to try was c£9. Which then results in the areas around the centre being hammered by commuters parking and preventing residents from actually parking anywhere near there house, which then leads to permit parking….

The only solution is for councils on mass to basically ban cars. BUT they also have to deal with the out of town retail parks and there huge car parks or the lazy will just start abandoning town centres.

Ahem – In areas where councils are enforcing parking, parked cars are not breaking the law – since the council only enforce parking in decriminalised parking areas.

Decriminalise
d??kriminl??z/
verb
past tense: decriminalised;?past participle: decriminalised

cease by legislation to treat (something) as illegal.

I would ban parking enforcement cameras, but make it legal for anyone to walk over a car that is parked on a pavement.

since the council only enforce parking in decriminalised parking areas.

partly so they don’t criminalise drivers for merely blocking the road and causing a pain in the arse for the rest of joe public but also due to the fact that car parking enforcement was about as high on the police’s agenda as ASL infringement is now*

It’s still naughty, albeit civil-ly naughty as opposed to criminally
atleast I think that’s how it goes.

*and depending on how hyperactive your conspiracy gland is, it’s also a cash cow and another battle in “The War On The Motorist”

I don’t want to get all ad hom, but do you think Pickles obsession with avoiding walking at all costs could have something to do with, y’know, his.. err.. physique?

HT Carlton Reid

Ian Walker ?@ianwalker

I’ve just plotted the chances of going to prison, after conviction, for motoring v non-motoring offences. Wow pic.twitter.com/xVqNfDB9K8

sounds liek you need a bike

I’d almost certainly have one less bike if I made a habit of riding mine into Middlesbrough. 🙁

There’s also no way I would ride the A19 – I’d rather put on a Pope’s hat and parachute into Afghanistan.

I thought the cash cow myth had been debunked when the government let councils turn off the speed cameras because they lost them money

I’m convinced 90% of the population want to be able to drive door to door and only have to walk a couple of meters either end.

This. We’ve got a small Co-op just up the road, it’s next to a cross roads, so there’s double yellows outside. However, they have their own car park (less than 100m away) and the double yellows end not that far away, but people still park on the double yellows while they go in the shop.

I thought the cash cow myth had been debunked when the government let councils turn off the speed cameras because they lost them money

This isn’t about accuracy…it’s about getting people to vote for them at the next election

Park and ride is fine, except when you actually have to drive through a large part of the town or city in order to get to it and use it. Bath has no P&R on its eastern side, the only two are on the far western side, nearly two miles outside of the city centre, useless if you’re approaching on the A4 from Chippenham, and the other is right up near Bath Uni, which still means driving into the city to get up to the Uni, by which time you could be in a car park in the centre.
The suggested eastern P&R location is nearly three miles out of the city, in completely the wrong direction if coming in from the east, as it’s due North. Meanwhile BANES makes it ever more difficult and expensive for people visiting the city to park and spend money in its shops.
Coupled with the huge queues for the buses when you want to go home, meaning you can be waiting for thirty to forty minutes just to get going back to your car. Train isn’t too bad from Chippenham, but a bus can take two hours to get the twelve miles to Bath…