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National trust land - access

26 posts & 18 voices | Started 2 years ago by Pook | Latest reply from singlespeedstu

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Pook - Member

I was walking over the weekend on NT land, and coming down a trail, thought it looked ace for riding. In fact, as perfect as perfect could be.
Considering firstly, cheeky night stuff, I then saw a list of NT byelaws and got reading. (annoyingly for my parents and GF).

Anyway, there was a section on what vehicles were allowed access on the the FT land, saying that basically, they weren't allowed on anything other that clearly marked tracks etc, but below all this was a caveat saying "this does not apply to bicyles" or something to that effect. I couldn't find anywhere in the byelaws a law prohibiting cycling on the NT land in question.

On an OS map it shows as a Footpath.

Which jurisdiction do I follow? I'm erring on the side of it being out of bounds really but I'm curious as to under which law.

Posted 2 years ago #
sharkbait - Member

Not sure but I was accosted by a 'ranger' a while back who informed me that I/we weren't supposed to be there (Sandstone trail).
I appologised and we all got off the bikes, walked around a corner then got back on and rode the rest.

I think that for some reason NT land is completely out of bounds for everything other than walkers.

Edit: just found out that the Sandstone Trail isn't NT land after all..... dunno where I got that one from

Posted 2 years ago #
TN - Member

Pook, where were you? I might be able to find out, depending where this was... (if you don't want to 'publicise' you can mail me - email is in profile.)

Posted 2 years ago #
crouch_potato - Member

I think that for some reason NT land is completely out of bounds for everything other than walkers. - Nonsense

There may be BW access for example, and in some cases (eg in some areas of the Lakes) where these don't exist permissive routes for cyclists and horses have been established. OP- just go back and ask someone who knows.

Posted 2 years ago #
z1ppy - Member

Never been stopped on our local NT land (though there are no bike signs on some trails - even after SSS's efforts) but have happily ridden past rangers and volunteers without any comment from them. There are several BW's on this land though.

Posted 2 years ago #
sharkbait - Member

I think that for some reason NT land is completely out of bounds for everything other than walkers. - Nonsense

you're right...... I got everything mixed up. NT actually seem pretty good about access.

Posted 2 years ago #
Pook - Member

TN - YGM

Posted 2 years ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

NT land is private land, just like farmland or your back garden.

Footpaths and bridleways accross NT land are more often than not marked up incorectly. The number of people who stand at the gates argueing that they should be allowed in for free because its marked as a footpath is sometimes silly.

Some land is open to bike some isn't. Your best bet is to phone up the Warden and ask. It'll either be a yes or no. Best off asking as a lot of NT land is SSSI, etc, in which case the SFB "I'll ride where I like because technicaly its not illegal" argument isn't true and could land you with a massive fine.

Posted 2 years ago #
b r - Member

just ride it

Posted 2 years ago #
simonfbarnes - Member

in which case the SFB "I'll ride where I like because technicaly its not illegal" argument isn't true and could land you with a massive fine.

that's a very tentative "could" given the ample evidence of multiple infractions! I've had 2 polite letters pointing out there is no right of way for bikes

and my position is actually "I'll ride where I like because it's my ancient right"

Posted 2 years ago #
mrmichaelwright - Member

Pook - assuming you mean the peak district?

if so, email me mrmichaelwright@hotmail.com and i can provide more information

Posted 2 years ago #
Scienceofficer - Member

The NT is not interested in any kind of land use other than 'keeping Britain pretty for old people'.

Despite their protestations to be pro-cycling, they're not at all. They should stick to stately homes and architectural gardens IMO and let the rest of us get on with it.

Posted 2 years ago #
mrmichaelwright - Member

The NT is not interested in any kind of land use other than 'keeping Britain pretty for old people'.

even for stw, that's one of the least informed statements i've ever read

Posted 2 years ago #
Scienceofficer - Member

Please inform me then.

Posted 2 years ago #
mrmichaelwright - Member

i'd rather not thanks

perhaps you should go and volunteer for the NT or speak to some employees on the ground?

you know, the ones for instance repairing rights of way in the winter, in the rain, in the middle of nowhere for very basic money.

ask them what their motivations are, i assure you that allowing purple rinsers to look at georgian furniture is not one of them

Posted 2 years ago #
Scienceofficer - Member

Ah, so its just snooty 'I know better than you, but I won't justify it' is it?

Thanks for sharing.

Posted 2 years ago #
mrmichaelwright - Member

HTH

Posted 2 years ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

go on then, justify your oppinion if you know more than Mr Wright?

I'd say 90%+ of the events re aimed at children/families and 70%+ of the visitors are probably below 65. But what would I know, its not like I grew up in/arround National Trust houses and parks.

Posted 2 years ago #
Dave - Moderator

Guiding principles

1. The National Trust welcomes cyclists on its land and encourages cycling both as an activity and as a means of transport, recognising the benefits to health and that responsible use causes negligible damage to the environment.

2. New opportunities for cyclists should be reviewed regularly within the management planning process and the different needs of touring and off-road cycling recognised.

3. Irresponsible behaviour should be discouraged, eg excessive speed, lack of consideration for others and cycling techniques which cause erosion.

Amazing what Google turns up hey?

Posted 2 years ago #
obirobkeno - Member

Pook - just give NT a call... I did this for a couple of small woods near my parent's place and their reply was "Cycling isn't allowed in those properties you mentioned, but if we don't see you... " NT have historically been particularly anti-bikes, but they are slowly opening their properties to bikes.

Clicky Click on any properties of interest and look for the bike icon

ok, so it's gnarly, techy trails, but it's a step in the right direction.

Posted 2 years ago #
al_f - Member

Dave - Moderator
Amazing what Google turns up hey?

Aye, but what you didn't show are the following gems from further down that page:

It is an offence under the Highways Act 1835 to cycle on a footpath.

Isn't it rather that you don't have a legal right to be there and are committing trespass (a civil offence) against the landowner?

Visual intrusion on open mountain and moorland. Mountain Biking and the Environment (Adventure and Environmental Awareness Group, 1992) recommends that mountain biking is in most cases inappropriate in such wilderness areas.

Er, "visual intrusion"? What?

In cases of extreme conflict with walkers and horse riders, preferably after first considering alternative routes and time zoning, apply for Traffic Regulation Orders to prohibit cycles on bridleways. Monitor numbers and 'incidents' first to establish a firm case.

On the one hand fair enough, but on the other not desperately encouraging that they're advocating lobbying for prohibition of bikes from bridleways.

Add that to the fact that the 2 NT-owned areas of land near me both have "no cycling" signs at the entrance points and it's not making them look desperately bike-friendly in my book.

Posted 2 years ago #
antigee - Member

plenty of grand stuff as listed above about cycle access but focus (and thats a little fuzzy) is on leisure stylee and encouraging cycle use to/from properties

acid test - tell me where a concessionary bridleway exists on national trust land?

and as the landowner i can only assume that the NT is responsible for all the signs (lots and lots) prohibiting cycling along sections of the east side of Ullswater that aren't a bridleway - cries out to be accessable to cyclists to avoid the main rd on the west side

Posted 2 years ago #
nbt - Member

acid test - tell me where a concessionary bridleway exists on national trust land?

East Park Gate to West Park Gate., Lyme Park, Disley. the only place in the Lyme Park estate where bicycles are allowed. The head warden *really* doesn;t like bike anywhere else. Shame, 15 years ago under a different warden they used to hold NEMBA downhill races there!

Posted 2 years ago #
Sam - Member

acid test - tell me where a concessionary bridleway exists on national trust land?

Loads of bridleways through Ashridge estate in Herts. I ride there all the time and only rarely have any issues.

Posted 2 years ago #
eviljoe - Member

The NT is not interested in any kind of land use other than 'keeping Britain pretty for old people'.

Hmm.

In which case they wouldn't be employing me.

See here.

And here

The majority of the folks at Antony House this weekend weren't even in double figures, let alone blue rinse....

Posted 2 years ago #
singlespeedstu - Member

z1ppy.

(though there are no bike signs on some trails - even after SSS's efforts)

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Posted 2 years ago #