Opinions please!
Typical cyclist body with over-developed quads and tight hamstrings plus weedy core strength and pipecleaner arms means my body is badly out of shape and needs fixing.

I do some stretching (mainly for back) but have just started Pilates lessons and the instructor kept me behind for additional guidance as she could see my lack of flexibility.
Anyway, she suggested I try some Myofascial Release, which seems to involve placing a soft ball in your tender spots for a few seconds. Which seems too easy to me…which, cynical ole me, suggests it’s some sort of witchcraft (but I’m willing to be proved wrong).

Over to you…

but have just started Pilates lessons and the instructor kept me behind for additional guidance as she could see my lack of flexibility.

Is she hot?

On and off I’ll use a foam roller which has helped particularly with back, hip flexor and itb. I’ve used a tennis ball for shoulder release on the advice of my physio which again helped a lot.

If that’s the same as “trigger point” therapy I did taht on various bits of my body that have been damaged. Helped loosen up the knots in my muscles. Plus a bit of the “hurts so good” feelings. Placebo, probably.

The stretching bit is the “snake oil”

I already have two soft balls in my tender spot but my hamstrings are still tight.

It helps with some things, cannot say if it helps with what you’ve got.

Foam rollering immediately sorted out my knee the first time (not the second) when I had ITB problems. Yesterday I squatted too hard and gave myself sore outside thighs, so I rollered – it helped, but didn’t cure it.

It’s just like a sports massage really. Not really magic or snake oil, but it depends what’s actually wrong I’d imagine.

https://www.myofascialrelease.com/about/definition.aspx

Myofascial Release is a safe and very effective hands-on technique that involves applying gentle sustained pressure into the Myofascial connective tissue restrictions to eliminate pain and restore motion. This essential “time element” has to do with the viscous flow and the piezoelectric phenomenon: a low load (gentle pressure) applied slowly will allow a viscoelastic medium (fascia) to elongate.

Trauma, inflammatory responses, and/or surgical procedures create Myofascial restrictions that can produce tensile pressures of approximately 2,000 pounds per square inch on pain sensitive structures that do not show up in many of the standard tests (x-rays, myelograms, CAT scans, electromyography, etc.)

Sounds like complete and utter cobblers.

I use a variety of different balls (sizes and hardnesses) for different areas and different levels of tightness. Tennis ball is a good starter – something too hard into a very tight area is going to hurt like all holy hell.

Well I sorted my ITB issues with a foam roller and while eye wateringly painful at times a golf ball has helped to defeat Plantar Fasciitis.

But these are just things you can do yourself, no need for some mystic healer with special powers.

I agree with the above – specific pressure on tight spots has always helped me – either a physio sticking their elbow in or a ball of some sort.

Give it a go and see how you get on?

surfer – Member
The stretching bit is the “snake oil”

You mean to say that being able to touch my toes is completely pointless?

I’ll stop then and just put up with tight legs/shoulders/back then?

I use tennis balls and a foam roller to ‘release’ tight spots on my hips, works well for me.

Had a load of physio sessions last year due to severe stiffness in my hips and back. I thought Myofascial Release was pulling the skin to release tension on the myofascial tissue? I had it done and the burning sensation is very odd.

IMO it definitely helps when you have a specific problem with a muscle. Not so much if they’re just feeling a bit sore from exercise.

It’s basically DIY sports massage (similar idea to foam rollers) but given a fancy name.

Yes it works. Yes people get all hippy about it and start spouting poncy pish.

Mrs K bought a Massage stick – like a foam roller in rolling pin guise – much easier to use whislt watching telly.

Article by @fitforeshore, posting simple applicable sports science.
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There are three types of stretches:
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1. PNF stretching involves stretching to a point, then flexing the muscle before relaxing into a deeper stretch.
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2. Dynamic stretching (DS) involves moving into a stretch and back out of a stretch in a controlled manor.
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3. Static stretching (SS) is moving into a stretch and holding it for 15-30 seconds.
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A review of literature in 2015 found that stretching in any of these three ways can help performance and reduce injury risk in healthy and active individuals.
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The study found that neural adaptations from stretching of each kind lead to improved flexibility. Using one of these forms of stretching to warm up, and cool down is recommended for reducing muscle injuries and increasing joint range of motion.
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Generally, DS to warm up, SS to cool down and PNF on days off to really push.
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Importantly, stretching has shown no negative effects on performance, so why not? Give it a try.”
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Source:
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Behm et al 2015. Acute effects of muscle stretching on physical performance, range of motion, and injury incidence in healthy active individuals: a systematic review. Applied physiology, nutrition, and metabolism, 41(1), pp.1-11

from https://www.facebook.com/ebtofficial/

Sounds like complete and utter cobblers.

That paragraph, and possibly the whole site does yes.

However it’s just self massage, and it can help, and that’s not cobblers.

The stretching bit is the “snake oil”

based on?

from https://www.facebook.com/ebtofficial/

The Yoga routines i learnt from a ‘flow’ class had elements of all three types. Sorted out short hamstrings (and thus back pain) and general stiffness/aches from spending too long sitting at a desk using a computer

Hmm, so it sounds like a combination of some techniques I already use, wrapped up in a new and fancy name…

Well, I’ll give it a try I guess.

I do a combination of stuff, I find rollering has little impact now, have two rollers with different firmness. Have a range of balls, from coconut shy through to a ‘yoga ball’ mostly use the solid wood one.

I also have a massage stick I use for self myofascial tissue release – mostly groin / hip. So lie on your back, bring one knee up, dig in the stick to lock the ligament thingy and then slowly slide your leg flat – it feels like the burning sensation mentioned above.

I find it helps with my ITB. Ended up doing most of this myself as I couldn’t afford weekly sports massage

You mean to say that being able to touch my toes is completely pointless?

I’ll stop then and just put up with tight legs/shoulders/back then?

You tell me, your toes.

based on?

I think you are misunderstanding how this works. If you assert something is true, you provide the evidence, not the other way around.

Go to a sports physio for this sort of issue not pilates

Footflaps, I give you…

Despite these caveats, though, the fact remains that there is little experimental evidence that stretching benefits the average (or above-average) distance runner. Some might advocate stretching anyway because it “can’t hurt,” and I don’t necessarily disagree with this outlook. Nevertheless, when training time is limited, one should spend that time on the things that matter most. For many of us, stretching may be more of a luxury than a necessity, and it should therefore be prioritized as such.

From: Science

From the same article:

Perhaps the largest-ever study of stretching and its injury-preventing potential was published this past winter. Pope et al. (Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 32: 271-7, 2000) examined 1538 Australian army recruits randomly divided into stretch and control groups. The authors summarize their results as follows: “A typical preexercise stretching protocol does not produce a clinically useful reduction in injury risk. Our best estimate of the effect of stretching is that is reduces all-injury risk by 5%, and we are able to rule out a 23% or greater reduction in injury risk with 95% certainty.” They continue, “When these results are expressed in absolute terms, the futility of stretching becomes apparent. Recruits stretched for 40 sessions over the course of training, and so, on average, each recruit would need to stretch for 3100 physical training sessions to prevent one injury. As it took 5 min to complete the stretches, an average of 260 hours of stretching would be required to prevent one injury.”

Another article:

Apparently, no scientifically based prescription for stretching exercises exists and no conclusive statements can be made about the relationship of stretching and athletic injuries. Stretching recommendations are clouded by misconceptions and conflicting research reports.

My selection. Read the whole article here.

Some more:

If you are aiming to avoid sore muscles and injuries, there seems to be little if any gain from stretching, he says.

Some Prof said this, lifted from this article:

Who knows…..

which seems to involve placing a soft ball in your tender spots for a few seconds

As others have said a good Sports Physio should help.

I suffered from patellar tendonitis a while ago. A series of exercises, routines and a foam roller really did help.

But the use of a lacrosse ball to target certain areas/trigger points really really helped. Not sure if this constitutes ‘myofascial release’ though as what you are trying to target with a ball is muscle ‘knots’/scar tissue etc- similar to a sports massage in order to (inter alia) stimulate blood supply and promote healing

I think you are misunderstanding how this works. If you assert something is true, you provide the evidence, not the other way around.

How’s those achilles aches & pains surfer? Did you see a Sports Physio in the end.

Message from one of your heroes Kilian Jornet for you – he says you should look after yourself and stretch … 😉

Your ‘evidence based’ approach is commendable but I think you are missing something. And this is recovering from injury. The same US national library of medicine has studies about injury recovery using stretching – as you well know as we’ve been here before haven’t we?

As people get older they pick up injuries/imbalances/niggles along the way. Yoga & stretching can help address some of these imbalances alongside strength and conditioning.

Kilian is now 30 and has to take care of his body as minor twists & sprains take their toll … be like Kilian! 🙂

How’s those achilles aches & pains surfer? Did you see a Sports Physio in the end.

Ankle and achilles pain comes and goes the root cause being my arthritic big toe. Partly relieved by wearing Hoka clown shoes! but its only going one way for me.

He is not my hero and it sounds like he has been drinking the koolaid…

ooh cheeky edit:

I remember now, you failed to provide any evidence then if I recall correctly? Is anecdotal stuff from whatshisname all you have to offer? You do know how science works dont you?

I get extremely tight calf muscles caused by restless legs and I use a textured roller to ‘loosen’ them. It’s sometimes painful beyond belief to make them feel relived (Vomitting anyone…?), but it definitely does work.

Mrs K bought a Massage stick – like a foam roller in rolling pin guise – much easier to use whislt watching telly.

If Mrs K is finding this useful and would give a positive review – could you pop up a hyperlink?

Your ‘evidence based’ approach is commendable

Ye, call me old fashioned 🙄

Go to a sports physio for this sort of issue not pilates

I have been. And I’ve been getting various specific treatments for a couple of injuries/tenderness/lack of flexibility issues I’ve had.

The Pilates is intended to supplement this, more of a long term rehab/preventative nature by learning safe, appropriate techniques for stretching/improving posture.

you failed to provide any evidence then if I recall correctly?

erm … not really – these are the links I provided last time in this thread:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/knee-pain-after-running-1/page/3#post-8155210

http://www.southperthphysio.com.au/the-stretching-debate-what-does-the-evidence-say

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3273886/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15126706

– there are plenty more if you can be bothered to search.

Sorry to hear you are still bothered by your Achilles. So did you see a Sports Physio or not?

From a quick glance the first is just a physio site with generic stuff.

The second explains how stretching increases mobility however my point is not “does stretching make me better at stretching” but does it:

A: help to avoid injury
b: speed up my recovery once I am injured.

Can you point to evidence that stretching is beneficial for either?

edit: just read the 3rd one. It is very short and would be interesting with more explanation.

From a quick glance the first is just a physio site with generic stuff.

Have a look at the references at the bottom of the article

And for the record I’ve never claimed that stretching can help with injury prevention.

edit: just read the 3rd one. It is very short and would be interesting with more explanation.

Fill your boots surfer … there’s loads more on the ncbi website. I only posted those links to refute your claim that I’d previously failed to provide any ‘evidence’.

@markgraylish Why don’t you try doing it and see if it works?

Myofascial release worked for me when i had a dropped foot which caused me to drag it and i often tripped up, i lived with it for a number of years from 2008 till 2016 as the doctors/spinal/neuro consultants put it down to the damage i did to my spinal cord back in 1991 and nothing could be done for it. Myofascial release was mentioned during a consultation with a sports physio at Hamden sports clinic in Glasgow (for an entirely different matter) and an initial consultation with a very talented physio in Ayr was set up, she worked around my calf muscle and knee area with a small percussive tool that resembled a trigger operated punch – it took a full 90 minute session but i regained full use and mobility of my ankle.

I think you are misunderstanding how this works. If you assert something is true, you provide the evidence, not the other way around.

You said that “The stretching bit is the “snake oil”. The evidence you’ve quoted seems to focus on ‘does pre-stretching help prevent injuries’ and ‘does extra flexibity from stretching make you run quicker’.

On a personal level when I did no other exercise than cycling I got very inflexible and suffered back pain. Yoga seemed to solve it. I don’t think there’s any doubt that excessively tight hamstrings from cycling can be an issue – when http://www.tommygodwin.com/ finished his year of riding his heels didn’t touch the ground when he walked. Whether there’s any benefit of ‘above average’ flexibility is a different question.

Surfer you started with Stretching is snake oil

But you accept that stretching increases mobility

Surely that means it isn’t snake oil. I want a wider bridge in climbing. I stretch and achieve it, results

I’m happy accept that randomly stretching before exercise is no better than random antibiotics. But proscribe the right one of the right ailment and it works just fine. I have been proscribed stretching for various injuries and it always seems to have helped

Most dramatic was recovery from ankle injury. I added a massive range of motion to ankle I could barely walk on as it was so locked. Placebo? Well I thought we accepted that stretching made you more flexible and given that was the problem

I would only prescribe stretching if a muscle is too short

I have had great results when using MFR both on patients as part of a massage and myself with a foam roller. It’s so easy to apply it with a foam roller or a tennis ball (or even a tin can!) that I suggest you try it, if you haven’t already, and see how you get on..

But you accept that stretching increases mobility

I wouldnt argue with this although it depends what you mean by “mobility”. I have never really looked into it. my interest is only that of an often injured runner who is often told to stretch as the answer to every running question. I was being deliberately provocative of course. Stand by what I have said but being “better at stretching” is not something I am particularly interested in. You may be.

Fill your boots surfer … there’s loads more on the ncbi website

And I have shown there is a large body of scientific evidence to show a lack of scientific evidence for stretching.

I am interested only in injury prevention and injury recovery and I am not convinced their is evidence of any benefit. I wish there were, as I have said before I would do it to help me as an aging runner and it would mean all those hours with my leg on a steeplechase barrier or pushing against walls wasnt wasted time although I suspect it was.

Just before Christmas I was sent up to fire service rehabilitation center for 2 weeks after having hip problems, it’s been bothering me for years but I didn’t know what it was, I have it turns out hypermobility and had at some point damaged the hip we think it was on my motorbike by assessment of pains and working backwards, we think the impact on the tank caused it.

I was given mfr and clinical pilates and improved on a daily basis, I’m still doing pilates now and getter better/stronger still

My original physio just stretched me over and over and it got to the point after one session I was really struggling to walk and by the time I got the new physio I couldn’t stand properly on my right leg. So not all stretching is good, I can easily put my palms on the floor with straight legs so God in know what he was doing.