As I was ploughing up to a hill in the peak the other day I had a great idea for a MTB app. Basically sat nav that gives voice commands in your ear. Rather than have to look down to your garmin to see where to go next an app would track your position via gps and give you commands as you are cycling. Say your hooning down a hill and there’s a fork up ahead, you don’t want to lose momentum or risk looking down at your bars so you’d receive the instruction, ‘take the left track at the fork’ or say you come to a junction with 3 possible turnings, all with tyre tracks heading away, you’d receive instruction for the correct one. Quite often when following guidance on a garmin for a new route there can be some ambiguity as to which track is the right one. Or if you’re following guidance from a book the instructions are normally quite brief and you might pass a track that looks like it might be the right one but isn’t so you waste time by stopping getting the map and book out and checking before setting off straight ahead, you’ve just wasted 6 minutes and annoyed your cycling companions. This app would take care of all that, saving you time and effort.
The premium paid for service would also give you voice encouragements, like ‘great speed, you’re ahead of the pack’ or ‘you’re too slow fatty, get moving’ 😆
What do you reckon?

I think Oakley have such a thing already, there new gizmo glasses have both voice commands and head-up display i think with built in ear piece in the glasses?

Trails and tracks, unlike roads change without much notice. Even riders straight lining a corner would render your ‘in-ear’ instruction obsolete. “Take the next turn sharp right” could very easily go straight on not long after you’ve uploaded the ‘route’
In ear encouragement? Are you 8 years old?
The whole concept flies in direct contrast to the reason I ride a mountain bike.
“I had a great idea for a MTB app.” You really didn’t. Stupid idea and for that reason, I’m out.

Its success would entirely depend on the accuracy of the data and the app’s ability to generate sensible instructions from that. Up-to-date, accurate, reliable data is (usually) available for the road network, but much less so for trails.

‘Monksie you are a grumpy bugger, make a U turn and go back to bed’

The actual reading of directions is trivial – all satnavs already do it. I’ve navigated before with google maps running with the phone in a pouch on a backpack strap reading out instructions.

What you’re actually trying to create is some kind of accurate off-road mapping, which is a huge task.

Feasibly, perhaps you could create some software so people could publish talking directions with route-books or something? then the relevant direction gets read out when your at/near the GPS co-ordinates.

I navigate with google maps in my headphones every day for work. It’s pretty poor on the road, e.g. gets very confused by double roundabouts or two roundabouts close together. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to get MTB directions. There’s no competing with local knowledge.

What you’re actually trying to create is some kind of accurate off-road mapping, which is a huge task.

+1, take the right at the fork means that the app needs to know that there’s a fork. Even turn right means that the app would need to know that there’s an option to go straight on but that the route you’re following deviates from that.

I think that if you integrate with a pair of glasses it’d be cool but I think it’d be a mammoth task. I really want a pair of glasses that tells me features in the landscape that I’m looking at, like the name of each hill etc…

then the relevant direction gets read out when your at/near the GPS co-ordinates.

I think this is closer to it than an actual sat nav system. Like when you’re doing an audio tour round a cathedral and your headset picks up where you are ‘you are now approaching the crypt’ –

The technology is here already, but I don’t think there is the software for it. You can add turn by turn directions to GPS for Garmin/etc and this will beep and display “turn left in x metres”.

Luckily there are a lot of off-road GPS tracks that are very accurate on TrailForks (PinkBike), but would need turn by turn directions added and for you to write an app to convert them into words.

The problem is poor GPS signal, comparing my Garmin to my iPhone, the Garmin has a lot stronger signal. If I run them side by side the iPhone can have me getting to bottom 30 seconds quicker as the signal isn’t anywhere near as accurate.

For it to be accurate it is going to be a niche market, as they will need a decent Bluetooth/WiFi GPS and take the time to add turn directions.

Trails and tracks, unlike roads change without much notice. Even riders straight lining a corner would render your ‘in-ear’ instruction obsolete. “Take the next turn sharp right” could very easily go straight on not long after you’ve uploaded the ‘route’
In ear encouragement? Are you 8 years old?
The whole concept flies in direct contrast to the reason I ride a mountain bike.
“I had a great idea for a MTB app.” You really didn’t. Stupid idea and for that reason, I’m out.

I read all of that in a Duncan Ballatyne(?) voice in my head 😆

As long as i can have Brian Blessed doing the voice commands, I’m in.

And Andrea Corr for the motivational stuff. Maybe now we have rudimentary telemetry you could also get dual commenting on the performance of the componentry.

‘Have you got appropriate rubber on for this bit?’

‘Your front end is very stiff.’

‘I love having 6 inches in the rear’

etc.

I think that if you integrate with a pair of glasses it’d be cool but I think it’d be a mammoth task. I really want a pair of glasses that tells me features in the landscape that I’m looking at, like the name of each hill etc.

Viewranger has something similar to this, and it shows your route on the terrain via your phone camera. Its really cool.

I like the idea but wouldn’t want to ride with headphones in. Also, whilst out on a night ride recently, my phone started giving me directions as I went through an area I lovingly call zombie wood. As it was in my backpack, I shit myself as I thought a zombie had actually managed to creep up on me.

Garmin already does it. My 820 is paired to my phone and if I’m using route guidance, instructions are spoken to me from the phone in my pack. I could add a headset to get my instructions in private.

What you need is a tandem

Your stoker writes a list of pace notes and sticks them to your back, then reads them off in a WRC style as you hurtle down the trail

Whether or not possible, that sounds like a great idea to me.

APF

People are getting extremely lazy these days :-/

No, thank you. I’d stick to my map reading skills…

Cheers!
I.

Ivan+1

This.
[video]http://vimeo.com/181949364[/video]

Matt and Ivan.
Map reading all very well, how’s the memory?

Can you really commit every junction to memory, or must you stop and unfold to demonstrate your no-doubt exemplary map reading at every junction? Which is what the OP seeks to avoid.

APF

On the subject of Dragons Den ideas, has anyone come up with an ash tray that attaches to your top tube? When smoking during races I’ve found it hard to put cigarettes out on trees as I ride past, and I don’t want to risk damaging the frame by stubbing them out directly on it.

My memory of local or previous rides is pretty good. Natural nav techniques get you a long way, particularly out of a forest for orientation. Lots of hand-railing and feature/route ‘story telling’ can help my memory as well from a map.
It depends where you ride – having been a few places where there are gates every 100m, junctions every other gate, and generally small scale, farmland rides, then a GPS/such a device would be ace, as would finding some of the cheekyness or secret trails.
Bigger, open hills where you often only make a route choice a few times over 20 miles, no so much a problem.
For me, it is all part of the attraction of it all. A challenge. My skill(z). You see more on a map – you sometimes take a different route, spot a place you have never been to, look up an odd place name etc.
The immediacy of a GPS/turn by turn system is great. But it is a very narrow field of vision and information.

Kind of like this

But audible rather than visual? Don’t think it’s about at the mo, but I think offroad a breadcrumb trail is about as good as it gets.

you can do this already with google maps.

Call me Luddite but on my local rides I do not need it, as they are local and I know trails pretty well and on the new trails I’d rather not bomb hard-wired through unknown terrain.

Such trust in technology often end us in a ditch…

Not especially unheard story, when someone went one way because GPS told him so…

Cheers!
I.

Surely it wouldn’t be used for local rides though? Much the same as you won’t be checking the map on a normal local loop, unless you’re exploring new stuff maybe.

g5604 – Member
you can do this already with google maps.

This, plus when you do this with google maps it sometimes gets confused when on cycle paths rather than roads – for instance I ingnored the instruction “Turn left onto Main Street, then do a U turn” when following directions along an NCN route last year. (i.e. those suggesing that letting it know where tracks were would be somewhat tricky are correct – particularly somewhere like Scotland where we don’t need bridleways to be able to ride).

as good as google maps is I’m pretty sure it doesn’t do this with proper off road routes. We’re talking over the hills and far away here not down the canal to the shops.
& yes the idea is to use it with routes that are new to you, you wouldn’t have any use for it on local loops.

All you need is a laser light type bike light that shines an arrow on the trail in front of you to show you what direction to go. The little laser

So coming up to a turn / junction , it’ll shine a left, right or ahead arrow on the road about 5m ahead of you. Dead simple.

Or, for really open ground stuff, you could have a dot or point that based on your next waypoint bearing would shine the dot the rough direction you need to head in to get to that waypoint.

But the expense of that if much higher than simply looking down at the garmin for 2 seconds….

GPS isnt reliable enough, howany times does it drop out or play catch up?
For that reason…

I’m out

😀

I think Oakley have some ski goggles that have a heads up display with speed and some other info. I think it also does navigation arrows to guide you round the pistes.

But as others have said off road navigation is difficult. Its not always as clear cut as on road what “turn right” means. But combined with an arrow in the rough direction and it might make it easier to understand the route?

Or for full on sci-fi effect you can use augmented reality so the goggles overlays the route on top of the actual trail. You’d need very accurate data and the new Galileo GPS system to achieve this.

But I’m not sure if I’d find it distracting or not having a HUD in my view all the time. I think ideal for me would me for the GPS unit to just make a noise when I come to a junction to prompt me to look down at the display to find out the direction I should be going in next. I suspect they may already do that? I currently use a paper map.

Ohh or a device that projects a hologram of a rider ahead of you combine it with the GPS and augmented reality and you just follow him/her around the trail?

Now that would be cool!

You could have famous riders (eg Steve Peat, Sam Hill etc…) program their lines around a route and you have to try and follow and keep up with them! 😆

Changed my mind! It sounds MINT! Let’s go mountain biking. Out in the hills and the countryside. Away from it all. Just us, our bikes, our riding skills, navigational aptitude, good decisions and our adventurous spirit, …….and a silly talking gps so we don’t find ourselves in a situation where we have to use our riding skills, navigational aptitude to help make good decisions and our adventurous spirit!
Yeah……sounds mint….

Basically sat nav that gives voice commands in your ear.

Bluetooth headset or headphones, phone satnav with open streetmap on – job done, surely?

Yeah……sounds mint

Sorry – you don’t get to decide how I enjoy my bike rides. I don’t want to faff with maps, but I do want to ride new trails. Why would I want to stop and look at a map all the time? I came out for a ride not a navigational exercise.

Don’t criticise others enjoyment. It makes you look like a right dick.

Ohh or a device that projects a hologram of a rider ahead of you combine it with the GPS and augmented reality and you just follow him/her around the trail?

Now that would be cool!

You could have famous riders pornstars (eg Steve Peat Jenna Haze,Sam Hill Gemma Valentine etc…) program their lines around a route and you have to try and follow catch them in the woods and keep up with them!

Oh dear! Calm yourself Molgripes. It’s just a message board

jekkyl – Member

The premium paid for service would also give you voice encouragements, like <snip> ‘you’re too slow fatty, get moving’

Paid for? I do this for free! Am I missing out?

In the interest of transparency I’ll say I work for Ordnance Survey, but these are my own thoughts, I in no way represent the company here. I’m also not trying to promote, just offer some insight.

I’ll say a few things:

Off road mapping is totally possible.

Ordnance Survey has a off road data set which covers the UK’s national parks:
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/products/os-detailed-path-network.html

You can already access and follow routes using this data set in the OS Maps app.

Marrying these directions to a voice prompt is pretty trivial. The fidelity and speed of capture of these off road networks is only getting better as technology progresses – there’s some exciting things I’ve seen from 3rd parties in this space.

However it is true offroad paths change rapidly. There are issues, especially in winter, around flooding and erosion where a path might literally vanish.

But as for the main bridleways and stuff in National Parks, you can follow those already using OS Maps.

I also no longer work within OS’ core digital products, so I can’t answer any questions you can’t already find on Google.

Going the wrong way often leads to enlightenment…………..for that reason I’m out.

you’re right Tom but if you’re at altitude going the wrong way can land you in a different valley, miles from your car, it’s dark and you don’t have lights, your wife is wondering where you, you haven’t got phone signal, it’s just starting raining, you’re hungry but you’ve eaten your last jelly baby, Aghhhhh if only you had Jek’s Mtb Nav App.

Or you could stumble upon an awesome new trail with and even more awesome new wife!