Yeah we will see, it’s a big ask to get through all of them by tea.

Hmmm. I did sort of jinx that didn’t I…

Unimpressive

Yep they don’t need to get any runs and don’t want to get out, stalemate situation there, I wonder if there will be a point that smith fancies the chance of 5-0 and declares

Well that was the up and down test, some of the best and worst bits there, in the end the pitch won as they said hopefully we get some of England’s best spinners out there, Swann is out here in the commentary box

Meh. Sensible enough descision in the end. Nobody was winning from there. The pitch, and to some extent the rain, beat everyone.

3:20 in http://sport.bt.com/video/broad-dismissed-in-controversial-circumstances-91364239670259 – it’s not when the ball initially bounced out, he actually got it back in his hand before it touched the ground, but as he rolls over the ball his hand quite clearly rolls so that it isn’t under the ball as his body presses down on it. I can’t see how there is any doubt the ball has grounded. Though the main problem clearly comes from the on field umpire giving a soft out signal when there is no way he could be sure.

As for Broad not walking, the only difference from what lots of other players have done is that it was more obvious to everybody else that he’d hit it. Clarke et al haven’t walked when they’ve known they’ve hit it – IMHO that’s actually more blatant cheating when the fielding team is guessing whether to use a review, because as pointed out DRS was in operation when Broad didn’t walk, and it’s not his fault Clarke couldn’t review.

I read this morning that the ECB are allowing Ben Stokes to be available for the forthcoming IPL.

Stokes given permission to play in IPL

Did someone at the ECB have a flutter on an Ashes whitewash? Why would they agree to him playing at all if they won’t permit him to play for the national side?

And why isn’t the CPS being given the hurry up on this?

I smell a rat…

And why isn’t the CPS being given the hurry up on this?

Because he has been a prat.

If I or you acted in a similar way and ended up in trouble with the rozzers we shouldn’t be able to expect special treatment so why should he.

I know his motives were probably quite honorable, but he had a couple of opportunities during that altercation to de-escalate and he didn’t take them.

I do want to know, however, what has happened to the arsehole who threatened to use a bottle – he needs to face some action as well.

Did someone at the ECB have a flutter on an Ashes whitewash?

I don’t think having Stokes in the side would have made the slightest difference to the result.

I don’t think having Stokes in the side would have made the slightest difference to the result.

I think it might well have made a difference. But we’ll never know. 😉

Agreed, he was a prat by allowing himself to become involved, at least Alex Hales had the sense to not throw his fists about, unless he was the one with the bottle? Genuine question.

I think it might well have made a difference. But we’ll never know.

Big 1st innings top order runs win test matches for the most part, with Cook and Root out of sorts England were not going win anything.

Big 1st innings top order runs win test matches for the most part,

I disagree a bit, big runs set a platform that bowlers can win games from. No runs, and for sure you’ll be battling to save games, but as per the last test big runs mean little if you can’t take 20 wickets and our attack hasn’t proven its ability to do that apart from a few times and under favourable conditions, like in the pink ball test.

Stokes has the ability to get a key wicket at a key time, like Flintoff adn Botham before him, and I think that’s been missing. And where bowlers hunt in packs, if we’d had him to bowl agressively and get those key wickets, Anderson and Broad would have had far better chance of success against new batters rather than plugging away against good batters who are well set on flat pitches.

Stokes has the ability to get a key wicket at a key time, like Flintoff adn Botham before him, and I think that’s been missing. And where bowlers hunt in packs, if we’d had him to bowl agressively and get those key wickets, Anderson and Broad would have had far better chance of success against new batters rather than plugging away against good batters who are well set on flat pitches.

not in australian conditions Flintoff for example….

* 23/11/06 1 Brisbane 30-4-99-4 5-2-11-0 0 & 16 0 Lost
* 01/12/06 2 Adelaide 26-5-82-1 9-0-44-2 38* & 2 0 Lost
* 14/12/06 3 Perth 9-2-36-0 19-2-76-0 13 & 51 0 Lost
* 26/12/06 4 Melbourne 22-1-77-3 dnb 13 & 25 0 Lost
* 02/01/07 5 Sydney 17-2-56-1 dnb 89 & 7 0 Lost

botham didn’t take a lot of wickets down under either

2/11/82 1 Perth 40-10-121-2 6-1-17-0 12 & 0 0 Draw
26/11/82 2 Brisbane 22-1-105-3 15.5-1-70-0 40 & 15 1 Lost
10/12/82 3 Adelaide 36.5-5-112-4 10-2-45-1 35 & 58 2 Lost
26/12/82 4 Melbourne 18-3-69-1 25.1-4-80-2 27 & 46 0 Won
02/01/83 5 Sydney 30-8-75-4 10-0-35-1 5 & 32 4 Draw

14/11/86 1 Brisbane 16-1-58-2 12-0-34-1 138 & dnb 0 Won
28/11/86 2 Perth 22-4-72-1 7.2-4-13-0 0 & 6 4 Draw
26/12/86 4 Melbourne 16-4-41-5 7-1-19-0 29 & dnb 3 Won
10/01/87 5 Sydney 23-10-42-0 3-0-17-0 16 & 0 3 Lost

even though they won more

The thing with someone like Stokes or Flintoff is that he is the kind of player who could change a game almost by force of will.

Chuck them the ball when Smith was set for example. It could cost you 25-30 runs in three or four over, but it could also get him out. It would have been nice to have that option because who are we going to chuck the ball to and say ‘three overs, bust a gut, but get this bugger out’? Woakes? 😆

We never really got into a position with the bat to allow a Stokes innings to take the game away from them, and he is not as potent with the ball as Flintoff was, so I doubt he would have made a huge difference, but he would have made some difference. What we really needed was some pace and a good spinner.

It’s not masses of wickets though, it’s that ability to get that wicket when needed. As Dannyh said, might be 1-20 in 4 overs but if that unjams the games, it’s still better than 0-70 in 25 overs

Exactly. The type of player that Stokes typifies is the impact player.

With the bat his principle role is to grind the oppo into the dirt when we already have some runs on the board and the ball isn’t doing anything. Chris Cairns and Adam Gilchrist spring to mind here. Occasionally they can also launch a brilliant counter attack – although more often than not it is just another wicket lost.

With the ball it is about getting the wicket. From nowhere if necessary. Three or four overs, I don’t care if you go for thirty, just get Smith out.

The likes of Woakes typify the competent all rounder. Reliable, unspectacular. Teams have to have a mix of ‘boring’ and ‘flair’. The very best players pack both into one man, otherwise it is about mix of players. If we had been getting runs on the board, the likes of Moeen would have had a better tour.

at least Alex Hales had the sense to not throw his fists about, unless he was the one with the bottle? Genuine question.

I’m late to this thread and I’m sure it has been mentioned before, but Hales was an even bigger jeb end kicking a guy in the head when he was on the floor then ran away before coming back to loiter. Class guy

Clearly I haven’t furnished myself with the finer details of the fracas. I seem to recall that the ECB didn’t impose a ban for him, so they obviously reward certain behaviours more than others.

think we have the definitive definition of “clutching at straws” 🙄

I don’t think so, I think we’ve both said he may have made a difference but I am still convinced we’d have lost the series. Just maybe not as pathetically as we have.

You can’t be saying that a current England side without Stokes is better than one with him?

It was always going to be tough and losing Stokes didn’t help. He was one misdemeanor away from missing a test anyway but the circumstances and subsequent disruption must have been huge for the team mentally, more than the fact he was missing physically… though the team wouldn’t be worse for having him, true.

Breaking News….
Woakes out Crane in for him so probably 2 spinners with Ali been given a chance (or we don’t have another bowler who they want there) So assume that is Curran still in there for Overton too?

Confirmation
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/mason-crane-leg-spinner-test-debut-england-ashes-sydney-scg-chris-woakes-injured/2018-01-03
and Starc to replace Bird
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/mitchell-starc-returns-test-squad-jackson-bird-dropped-australia-ashes-england-scg-fifth-test-sydney/2018-01-03
So no double spinner for Australia

Back to the Anderson vs Bird thing, I think we have a winner:

Bird: 0-108 off 30ov
Anderson: 4-107 off 59ov

😆

And I hope Crane is better than his stats. A FC bowling average of 44 is more than a little worrying when it’s against Warner, Smith and a few others who like to swing the bat.

That’s quite a tail we have now – it doesn’t seem all that long ago people were talking about how deep England batted.

Jaffa

So far, so good at 24-0; stoneman on 20 so another quick start by him – let’s hope it continues.

Why oh why did you post that
122-3 all got starts all got out 400 is the target if your going to win

That’s quite a tail we have now – it doesn’t seem all that long ago people were talking about how deep England batted.

Most of the locals I speak to are still scared of Broad with the bat, so having him at 10 has certainly added an air of depth to the order. On his day they’d be right, but it’s very rarely his day with the bat these days.

However, you put an ‘ideal’ lineup of:

1) Cook
2) Stoneman
3) Vince / Malan
4) Root
5) Stokes
6) Bairstow
7) Ali
8 ) Toby RJ / Woakes / Overton
9) Wood
10) Broad
11) Anderson

and that’s a fairly formidable batting lineup if they all play to their potential. It also gives you four fm bowlers, one f, a spinner and two part timers if you have Malan over Vince.

It’s a wonderful whatif, I suppose, but injury, indiscipline, and abject form seems to have robbed us of most of it.

The moment I turn the radio on…!

Argh

Root you brainless **** nobhead. Straight into the trap, exposes another batter to 15 balls at the end of our day, 4 times this series now.

Bairstow on review………

tiny nick (phew)

a simple trap for root. I shouted at the telly

also showed a revealing stat – top 6 world batters currently (Root is 6) all convert 50’s to 100’s at 40+%, Smith is #2 and 51%, Kohli #1 @ 57%

Root – 26.5% – gives it away too often.

Think I’ll go back to bed.

FFS. sums up the series. its almost funny

Johnny would be entirely in his rights to insert that shiny new bat into Joe Root

FFS