copying Americans is bad because they are Americans..?

You’ve hit the nail squarely on the head (sort of).
Copying Americans is bad because they are English. American phrases sound stupid coming out of English mouths. It’s only my opinion, based on hearing the people in my office doing it. I can’t help getting annoyed by it. I don’t think it makes me racist or old fashioned or whatever 😥

American phrases sound stupid coming out of English mouths.

Only at first. It’s okay after a while though, so I don’t have a problem with it.

(there is at least one Americanism in this post, can you spot it?)

I don’t like the way that English is being homogenised.
It leaves us poorer as a society.

It’s not though. The national boundaries are being (somewhat) eroded, but there are plenty of others. Our language is becoming far richer, not poorer. I can now choose my slang from a huge variety of options, and which I choose adds metadata to my speech quite nicely I think.

Going forward

That’s got nothing on ‘Reach out to…’.

molgrips – Member

I don’t like the way that English is being homogenised.
It leaves us poorer as a society.

It’s not though. The national boundaries are being (somewhat) eroded, but there are plenty of others. Our language is becoming far richer, not poorer.

I disagree.

English phrases that were in common usage have been replaced by American English equivalents.
Our languages are more similar than they ever have been, at the expense of English.

English phrases that were in common usage have been replaced by American English equivalents.

But we are inventing new ones all the time.

As for the ones that we lose – just tell me why you don’t speak like Shakespeare?

molgrips – Member
But we are inventing new ones all the time.

Most of the ‘new’ words accepted by the OED are transient and many don’t last beyond the initial honeymoon period.

Do you think our range of vocabulary has increased or declined post WWII?
I don’t know, but I’d put money on declined.

As for the ones that we lose – just tell me why you don’t speak like Shakespeare?

As I keep repeating, I understand the evolution of language.
This is not evolution. It’s a hostile takeover. 🙂

Do you think our range of vocabulary has increased or declined post WWII?

Increased, loads I reckon.

What about since 1900? 1850?

I shall do some research and see what I can find.

After lunch, obviously. 😀

Rusty Spanner – Member
Mr Woppit – Member
Anti-Americanism. Good old-fashioned English racism in disguise.

You call me a racist and that’s your justification?

Pathetic.

Oooh. Well that’s me told off all over the place, then.

Quite funny what unintentional expeletive can reveal about the unconscious mind.

Nowt wrong with importing new words and phrases from anywhere. But they should be all judged on artistic merit.(I’m an aesthete don’t you know).

“my bad” scores about 1 out of 10. As does the verb “inbox”. Frightfully ugly.

Which unintentional expletive was that then?

You accused me of being a racist.
When challenged on this and asked to provide evidence you cannot do so.

And you don’t even have the balls to apologise.

Pathetic seems to cover it nicely.

When I last saw it used “Reach out to” was not the same as “Contact (someone)”.

It referred to getting in touch with someone who could help in regard to a problem experienced by another, where that person is in a position to help.

Perhaps the meaning has warped with time.

In the way that language usually does… (SWIDT?)

Which unintentional expletive was that then?

You accused me of being a racist.
When challenged on this and asked to provide evidence you cannot do so.

And you don’t even have the balls to apologise.

Pathetic seems to cover it nicely.

I didn’t accuse you of being a racist. I suggested that your ant-americanism fell into the category of disguised racism and then went on to highlight that it is (IMHO) “good old-fashioned English racism” at root.

Not quite the same thing but perhaps a little too subtle a difference for your radar to detect.

Nothing to apologise for, with or without my testicles.

And of course, you can cover it with whatever you like, old boy.

Pip pip.

I didn’t accuse you of being a racist. I suggested that your ant-americanism fell into the category of disguised racism

By which you mean I’m a racist but trying to disguise it?
Disguised implies that I am fully aware of my actions and intentions.

Not quite the same thing but perhaps a little too subtle a difference for your radar to detect.

Ah. So I’m a stupid racist?

Nothing to apologise for, with or without my testicles.

Maybe not in the circles you move in, but if I called someone a racist without cause or justification I’d expect to be asked to explain myself.

I’m aware that this discussion is very boring for those not involved and against the rules and spirit of the forum, so I’ll add my email address to my profile for a while.

I look forward to continuing this via email.

Maybe not in the circles you move in

That would be this one, at the moment.

I’m aware that this discussion is very boring for those not involved and against the rules and spirit of the forum

Not at all, I’m very relaxed with it.

The disguise is unconscious, but perhaps I didn’t emphasise that enough…

Others may care to comment on the idea of how unconscious racism is revealed. Or not. Whatever.

The disguise is unconscious, but perhaps I didn’t emphasise that enough…

Or at all.
This is the first time you’ve mentioned it.

Others may care to comment on the idea of how unconscious racism is revealed. Or not. Whatever.

Perhaps you would like to provide specific examples of my racism, disguised or not?
I’ve asked you to do this repeatedly.
You seem to be unable to do so.

I’m aware that this discussion is very boring for those not involved and against the rules and spirit of the forum
Not at all, I’m very relaxed with it.

Probably why you keep getting banned.

My email is now in my profile – let’s continue this somewhere else, shall we?

let’s continue this somewhere else, shall we?

Please do, it’ll save me from having to ban anyone in the immediate future.

My email is now in my profile – let’s continue this somewhere else, shall we?

No no – I think an apology should be public seeing as everybody else has followed it so far.

If searched back through the thread and the only thing I can find that could be remotely connected to “Anti-Americanism” from you is:

It means ‘I made a mistake’.
Used as an apology by people who lack the grace or manners to say ‘I’m sorry’.

Also used by people who think if they talk like an American they will eventually become one.

I clearly made a gross assumption there – you were clearly complaining about the usage in the first instance and the imitationary aspiration on the other.

My sincere apologies. I’ve no idea how I could have misinterpreted that. 8)

Wunundred.

Cool 😉

What the actual f[Still nope – Mods]?

What could have been an interesting thread on linguistic evolution turns in to yet another argualympian bout of name calling and racism twaddle. It’s almost as if they hadn’t been banned and still walked among us.

Like, whatevs.

Ok then Flashy, back on track. 🙂

Let’s have your take on the issue then.
Americanisms, not whether I’m a closet racist or not. (Awaits reply containing the words swap out, my bad, dude, chillax etc……) 😀

Words and phrases disappear all the time, and are replaced by new ones. How important is their provenance? TV and media has homogenised our culture to an extent, but I think rather than removing idioms it’s simply distributed them. Words such as ‘minger’ were regional once, now everyone uses them.

Americans now also have the choice of using British slang too, now that transatlantic media traffic is much more two-way than it was.

molgrips – Member

Words and phrases disappear all the time, and are replaced by new ones. How important is their provenance?

Ask a Welshman? 🙂
Or anyone who appreciates the nuance and variety in any country’s local dialects, which are also declining in use?

Americans now also have the choice of using British slang too, now that transatlantic media traffic is much more two-way than it was.

I am genuinely delighted that the British English male masturbatory verb has been adopted with enthusiasm by young Americans.

And Woppit, thank you for the apology. 🙂
And sorry everyone for derailing a nice thread.

Ask a Welshman?

I thought we were talking about idioms not whole languages. They speak our language after all.

Or anyone who appreciates the nuance and variety in any country’s local dialects, which are also declining in use?

Again – they are simply being replaced with different dialects. We lose, we gain – that’s life.

You are still free to use local dialects of course – people will still understand them generally.

Again – they are simply being replaced with different dialects.

No, they really aren’t.
The variety is being lost.

We lose, we gain – that’s life.

You are still free to use local dialects of course – people will still understand them generally.
I’m guessing you don’t listen to the lyrics much Moly. 🙂

Funny you should draw analogy to music, it’s one of the more fertile areas of language I reckon.

I agree.

But fake American accents predominate almost exclusively in western popular music. 😀

We now live in an age where actors in TV adverts routinely adopt a fake US accent to attempt to sell me toothpaste in Burnley, whilst I attempt to avoid the adverts.

I’d quite like to be sold toothpaste by a woman from Aberdeen, or from Cumbria or Delph, thanks.
Good accent that.

Good to see you two are getting along well now!

😉

I’m a fan of appropriating words from other languages, but not of mangling words from English, neologisms if you will.

CaptainFlashheart – Member

Good to see you two are getting along well now!

You’ve not really been paying attention, have you? 🙂

No, and I realised that just after posting!

😳
My bad!

😀

But fake American accents predominate almost exclusively in western popular music.

They aren’t always fake of course – many singers actually are American.

mangling words from English, neologisms if you will.

A lot of the fancy words we like to use were invented completely by people like Shakespeare and Milton. A word is just a neologism 100 years on, after all.

The English you now speak is just another day in the life of this volatile thing, and imagining there was some better richer time is not really that accurate imo. Language reflects the place and time – always has done, always will do.

Unless you start imposing rules on it…

They aren’t always fake of course – many singers actually are American.

Good point.
I had actually considered this after I posted. 🙂
But I decided that many of them sing in a generic rock/country style, irrespective of where they come from, so it could stay.

Diversity of language and dialect is a wonderful thing.
It increases the sum total of human happiness.

It’s true, many affect an American accent, and that does annoy me. But then again maybe the accent is part of the genre, like Italian is for opera. No-one complains about them singing in that ridiculous accent.

I wonder if Opera singers use a generic accent and dialect, like 70’s stereotype comedy folk singers or hospital DJ’s?

I’ve not considered that before.

true, many affect an American accent, and that does annoy me

Richard Ashcroft! Listen to his solo stuff! The bloke’s from Wigan! So annoying.

But fake American accents predominate almost exclusively in western popular music.

People often say that, but how “predominant” is it actually ?

I’m not saying there aren’t any, but I can think immediately think of any examples.

(Never thought of Richard Ashcroft sounding American either, I’ll have another listen)

There are British singers who don’t sound American. John Shuttleworth for example.