Link to original story and comments here

Yep…that’s certainly wound everyone up into a frenzy, fwiw i tend to agree with him but if folk want to buy a full sus bike then let them, more servicing work for myself compared to a simple rigid bike so it’s a win situation.

As an example I had a lovely scandium niner rigid ss in the shop last week for a new BB and i’d say the vast majority of the folk that came in had the same question when i mentioned to them to have a look at it : Yeah..it’s a nice looking bike but where could you ride it?, not round here

That says a great deal about the ad driven mtb buying general public who believe they need a 140mm+ bike to ride the local 7stane trails, never mind the thought of actually leaving a trail centre on their all mountain rigs and getting out to explore in the hills.

Isn’t the ‘too much bike’ phase something we all have to go through as we all travel on our paths to cycling nirvana?

Ride what you enjoy.
Who cares what it is or where it is.
If you only have one bike have fun, if you have 10 lucky you.
If you’re having fun it’s all good.

I learned on a rigid bike but I’m not that convinced by the argument. In fact I find that riding a long travel full suss makes me ride harder/faster when I have a go on a hardtail or rigid bike.

Until recently I thought this thing about people thinking you need a 150mm travel full suss bike to ride anything vaguely rocky was a myth promoted by STW nicheists. However I was out riding with someone recently who had a pretty nice hardtail, but refused to do anything but smooth descents, as you need a ‘downhill’ bike to do anything vaguely technical.

As an example I had a lovely scandium niner rigid ss in the shop last week for a new BB and i’d say the vast majority of the folk that came in had the same question when i mentioned to them to have a look at it : Yeah..it’s a nice looking bike but where could you ride it?, not round here

You must be some much more awesome than your customers……..cool story bro……..slow hand clap……..chapeau ………etc etc etc……..zzzzzz.

Talks about skill building due to lack of forgiveness in early bikes, then talks about how forgiving the modern rigid is…

The modern rigid with 2.35 20psi tyres, discs, bigger wheels and slacker angles is *probably* more of a ‘skills masker’ than any early 90’s era hardtail.

CXWorld would also argue that anything over 35mm is over biked.

cheers smell_it , yeah…i am so amazingly awesome that i often just run round the trails holding onto a set of grips (hope of course), no need for a bike at all.

You obviously missed the intonation in my post regarding “folk can buy what they like” and their disbelief that you can ride a rigid bike round the surfaced trails.

I can still bunnyhop higher and further on my rigid bikes than I can on my suspended machines.

d their disbelief that you can ride a rigid bike round the surfaced trails.

I remember bumping into two lads in 6″ AM bikes who couldn’t believe I was riding the Towneley on a 4″ HT. At which point a bloke on an elderly rigid ladies hybrid rise past us.

I started riding a rigid. Now ride a hardtail and what now would be considered a short travel FS.

I don’t really get the skill compensator bit as the you can do different things with a FS than a rigid. For example really weighting down the front end to get more grip on rough corners. With a rigid you would quickly lose control but with good suspension you fork will track round the corner with more grip and speed.

With the front Maxxis 2.35-inch tire aired down to 20 psi

I gave up after this ludicrous phrase.

Riding SS rigid can be fun but a lot of the time I feel I’m more just trying to get through some sections with my wrists intact rather than enjoy them like I do on my FS. The whole skills compensator thing is bullshit though, it depends on where you’re riding and it doesn’t need to be that gnarly for a FS to be faster & more fun for a lot of people.

Editor’s Note: The Angry Singlespeeder is a collection of mercurial musings from contributing editor Kurt Gensheimer. In no way do his maniacal diatribes

“Maniacal diatribes” is a bit grand for the kind of grumpy old man ramblings that grace this forum every day.

At first I though “asshat”, then I thought about the new and newish trails being built. A SS fully rigid bike would be perfect for the graded trails like Verderers (and the new Penhydd).

I did smirk about the fact that the whole argument was about using minimalist kit in order to develop skill because he then destroys his own argument by showing us his 29er……

Yeah, I would have taken him more seriously if he were riding a fully rigid alu 26″ bike with alu bars & stem plus 1.5″ spesh hardpacks with 50 psi in them.

I remember bumping into two lads in 6″ AM bikes who couldn’t believe I was riding the Towneley on a 4″ HT. At which point a bloke on an elderly rigid ladies hybrid rise past us.

I love the looks I get at Glentress from all the people with DH bikes and stormtrooper uniforms when I turn up with my GT RTS, jeans and no helmet 😉

I do tend to agree with some point’s of his article, but there are a few bits that probably take it to far! -but it’s all about the trail riding on cyclocross bikes with cantis for improving skill!!! 😉

I agree with him.

We now have 29+, fat and 26+ blurring this theory. Check this strava seg, it’s not super technical, but the KOM is held be a rigid bike, a surly krampus. Big tyred rigid bikes, where the tyres are replacing the sus.

http://www.strava.com/segments/5450816

However I do like full sus bikes for an hour of messing around, but don’t need one locally. A lot of my local riding is done with drop bars and 40mm tyres now. Between a salsa warbird and a Jones I have my local trails covered without any suspension.

I love the looks I get at Glentress from all the people with DH bikes and stormtrooper uniforms when I turn up with my GT RTS, jeans and no helmet

And there’s the thing. For some people, that’s part of their enjoyment – other peoples’ reactions to them and what they ride. As such rigid SS (or whatever anti-mainstream bike) is perfect.

We all get different things out of riding. Saying that someone else if overbiked just because of what they ride without understanding any of the reasons behind it is just being a grumpy bugger.

I sometimes ride the same trails/muddy-tracks/forest-bogs/etc on my 6″ travel bike as I do on my retro-rigid-fixie… I’ll be putting in loads of effort, riding as fast I feel safe too… and grinning like a loon on any bike. All bikes is good bikes.

Did have a laugh with some local doonhallers one day as I rode past them on my retro-fixie, and a few months later we all laughed again when they were up there on unicycles… we are all weird and its best not to judge by what bike someone is riding that day (or what kit they are wearing). We are all on the trails and forests to have fun (apart from the ramblers natch 😉 ).

While I sort of get what he’s saying, that riding a more basic Rigid bike gives you less margin for Error an hence forces you to become a “better” rider, I don’t agree…

I started out on Rigid bikes, I still use a Rigid SS bike for some of my riding, primarily because it’s still simpler, cheaper and easier to maintain while getting in muddy winter miles and still being fun (IMO), but telling people they have to “Earn their Stripes” on a boneshaker because the rest of us started off that way 20 odd years ago is just condescending and shortsighted…

I’m can fully understand that not everyone is as keen to spend hours on end being miserable on a relatively uncomfortable, more basic bike simply because its the old Git approved route to MTBing Skillz, sod that its the 21st century and MTBs have changed significantly over the last two decades…
We rode rigid bikes because that was mostly what was available and affordable, not because of some misanthropic cycling austerity instinct…

The thing is, he then goes on to waxing lyrical about the joys of his “VerHauen” a proper “more money than sense”, Niche-whore’s SS “Rig”, dripping in Carbon, high price point bling, and rolling on “Aired Down” 29 inch tyres (surely Big wheels and low pressure tyres is another form of suspension and hence “cheating”?), As nice as his up to the minute bone shaker is, it isn’t the bike for everyone…

I think my biggest problem really is with the idea of “traditionalists” emerging within MTBng, their only real claim being “I’ve been at this game twenty years, man and boy, I could tell you a thing or two young lad!”…

MTBing isn’t really old enough to have formed any “traditions” IMO. Asserting that anyone new to a sport has to have a similar experience to your own 20 years ago is just self important…

What iolo said.

I like my rigid bike, but skillswise riding it just makes me a bit better at riding a rigid bike (I can ride it reasonably quickly using skills aquired on suspension bikes though)

i do have some sympathy with the line of argument that people should start on hardtails at least. there are quite a few riders i know who were told to go buy FS bikes when they started, as the person who was giving the advice never got on with hardtails very well.
as a result they’re riding around on bikes that weigh too much, and ride lumpy stuff sitting on the saddle, when for the same money they could have bought really quite decent hardtails that would be cheaper and easier to maintain, require less maintenance, and would have encouraged the habit of a better stance.
the advice given was undoubtedly well meaning, and it’s certainly possible that out of those new starters more of them would have knocked it on the head sooner, but those who ‘got it’ would be having more fun and would be better riders, probably coming out more.
i’m sure, if you don’t ride that regularly, that it’s a damn site easier to throw your leg over a reasonable hardtail and pedal it than 30+ pounds of ‘OKish’ FS.
all anecdotal of course but just IMO.

double post

It all depends on where you ride shirley?

I ride rural Hampshire, coast to hills and all inbetween, no need for a FS nor indeed front suss, just RigidSS29er covers all bases, and now I ride a CX bike all over the same trails, all good Man.

However, I’ve also ridden Nidderdale loop from Stif MTB’s and I wish I’d chosen to take the shops Tallboy.. I was mullered after taking my Niner up there, shan’t do that again in a hurry. 😀

I can remember two young(ish) lads, fully-sussed up with all the pads etc, at the start of the Dyfi Enduro commenting on a guy riding the event rigid SS, saying ” That’s just stupid.”
No, it’s his idea of fun. He may not enjoy twiddling up all the climbs at slower than walking pace just to bomb down the other side.

Rigid SS isn’t for everyone (I know plenty who’ve tried and given up), but it’s a valid bike choice for the right rider a lot of the time. I was amazed at what I could ride on mine when I first bought one. It’s not better or more “real” than gears & suspension, just appeals more to a certain type of rider.
I’m not convinced riding rigid SS will necessarily make you a better rider, but you need a certain degree of skill to get the best out of / enjoy it.

can remember two young(ish) lads, fully-sussed up with all the pads etc, at the start of the Dyfi Enduro commenting on a guy riding the event rigid SS, saying ” That’s just stupid.”

Probably the kind of attention he was craving though. 😉

remoterob – Member

Talks about skill building due to lack of forgiveness in early bikes, then talks about how forgiving the modern rigid is…

The modern rigid with 2.35 20psi tyres, discs, bigger wheels and slacker angles is *probably* more of a ‘skills masker’ than any early 90’s era hardtail.

CXWorld would also argue that anything over 35mm is over biked.
Fully agree. The only reason I started my missus out on a HT w/flat pedals was so she could learn to hop/maunal the bike properly as its far easier to learn this on HT than FS. After she got that nailed we moved her up to FS and shes never looked back.

If you take the view you should start on a rigid bike, then you should really start on a BMX as you can learn far more stills from that quickly before you “progress” onto an MTB. Theres also far more young-uns on 8″ monsters that do far bigger and better things than us and they started on FS. There is some merit on learning some skills on rigid and flat pedals vs FS and clipped in, but once you have them theres no reason not to use a bigger bike if you are happy with it. This argument is far out of proportion these days.

I haven’t read it but…I have gone through most of the mtb extremes. Going back to a rigid bike, in my case initially 26′ OnOne, then 29 OnOne, then Jones Ti Spaceframe definitely improved my riding skills in the basics department and particularly in terms of line choice and maintaining momentum. I even did a now very famous Enduro race on the Jones. In the end however I was enjoying trails less where I ride, where I found what FuzzyWuzzy said to be true, even with a fat front, at the speeds I knew I could travel, I was just trying to get away with my wrists and shoulders intact…so I want back to FS and have loved it since.

My overall view is the one that you ride what you enjoy and enjoy what you ride…I’m looking for a HT again to complement my FS, I just like it 😉

I like bikes. Full suss, hard tail, rigid, 26er, 29er, singlespeed, 3x, 2x, 1x, road, trail, track if I ever get round to it. Aluminium, carbon, steel, titanium.

I even like balance bikes.

Not sure about 650B though.

I’d tend to agree with the writer, I followed a similar path in bikes to the writer.
I currently have a fully rigid and a FS 26″ bike.
Riding fully rigid teaches a lot about line choice and also bike handling. Going to a FS bike meant I could choose different more technical / fun lines, but I could still hit the smooth lines and have a quicker run.
They’re both fun, but I do think you learn more about bike skills and handling to start with on a rigid. The price of poor line choice on rigid usually meaning an off.

I have a lot of sympathy for the comments by that guy Kris about his son and the lil shredder. I bought my son a bike with front suspension as soon as I could, and he was riding full suspension for DH at 7. The suspension made riding more pleasurable for him thus encouraging him to ride more, it also made harder stuff more accessible and encouraged him to go faster. Suspension has helped his progression (and enjoyment) no end and I am pretty sure he would be a lot worse if I had imposed the “you gotta learn on a rigid ethic” on him.

Riding fully rigid teaches a lot about line choice

Like avoiding all the rocks? 😉

Like avoiding all the rocks?

and sticking to tow paths, abandoned railway lines and fire roads 😕

But hey once you borrow someone’s real bike you will:

feel like a cheetah unchained,

🙄

The Krampus I tried was good fun.
Far more useable than you would think from looking at it.
I certainly had a grin on my face.
Its got its limitations though.
I cant imagine there are many taken to the Alps for example.

isn’t it all just riding bikes and the type of bike matters not, as long as you’re riding one??

or have i missed the {corporate biased, consumer pocket emptying} point?

angry singlepseeder sound like a right tool, full of envy for those who can afford good bikes.

angry singlepseeder sound like a right tool, full of envy for those who can afford good bikes.

Slow day at the shop Kenny?
🙂