Ben, You mean apart from the bit where:

The deputy chief magistrate Emma Arbuthnot ordered that Mair be remanded in custody until his next appearance, at the Old Bailey on Monday. He will be held at Belmarsh prison and Arbuthnot suggested that a psychiatric report be prepared, saying: “Bearing in mind the name he has just given, he ought to be seen by a psychiatrist.”

?

I’ve got a nasty suspicion we might be finding out about some targeting and inciting of a mentally fragile person here.

dannyh, the same has occurred to me. Find someone vulnerable and susceptible to persuasion. It’s exactly the way “those other” extremists work to indoctrinate disaffected young people.

ninfan – ah, that bit wasn’t reported by the BBC…

that bit wasn’t reported by the BBC…

you know why that is 😉

“So, good day?”

“Well yes, actually. Went to the LBS for a few things, a good lunch in a nice pub with the family, and then a great afternoon in the garden at a friends house. Loads of kids hooning around on their bikes, loads of good friends chatting, catching up on life, then home in time for a nice takeaway curry and a few beers. You?”

“IT WAS AWESOME! I argued with a load of strangers on the internet. I copied and pasted, I countered, I parried, it was amazing! The topic? Well, someone decent got, you know, like, killed, so we were arguing about it. Cool, huh?”

“Erm…..”

You mean you wouldn’t discuss it face to face in the pub or at work?

No, he means that it’s probably time to reflect a bit. Just that, I’d guess.

@ dannyh and slowoldman. I’ve had a niggling suspicion too, purely because of the timing and the critical nature of the current political debate.

It has crossed my mind whether possibly others were involved, although the police say they are convinced that although the murder was in their opinion highly premeditated and planned no other persons were involved.

“It’s exactly the way “those other” extremists work to indoctrinate disaffected young people.”

The problem with that is that the public reaction was completely predictable. Shouting out “Britain First”, if he did indeed say it, while murdering a woman in a British street isn’t going to get people rushing to join or support Britain First. Even an idiot could figure that out.

The only people likely to benefit from this grotesque act are anti-racists and I guess possibly also other far-right neo-nazi opponents of Britain First. When far-right neo-nazis/racists/fascists fall out they end up really hating each other – it’s easy when your entire ideology is based on hatred anyway.

However my conspiracy theory really doesn’t extend so far as to think that a vulnerable mentally ill neo-nazi was encouraged/helped/whatever by either anti-racists or far-right enemies of Britain First.

And apart from anything else neo-nazis halfwits don’t have the skills to carry out complicated secret conspiracies imo.

The murder probably was carried out by just one deranged individual imo. Although I do expect to hear many conspiracy theories in the future. If you do a search you’ll see they started almost straight away.

You mean you wouldn’t discuss it face to face in the pub or at work?

I’m sure he would discuss it but when it reaches the point of petty point scoring and silly accusations then it’s no longer a discussion.

@ dannyh and slowoldman. I’ve had a niggling suspicion too, purely because of the timing and the critical nature of the current political debate.

Granted those that could instigate something like that are generally not that sharpest tools in the box, but surely even they could work out that setting someone up to do what has happened, is counter productive to their aim. If anything this will sway some undecideds to choose remain.

Then again, as history shows with similar cases, common sense and logic go out the window with fanatics.

Dark days.

Another ‘lone wolf’ right winger from Batley…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/bnp/6996980/Lone-wolf-BNP-member-jailed-for-11-years-for-building-up-explosives-arsenal.html

I reckon it’s almost clear that the parties he was involved with influenced his actions, if they intended for him to take such drastic action I’m not sure about but it did cross my mind. I do think it’s time we started talking s stance against these parties though.

Deleted.

I’m not being obtuse here but.

– so the people who’ve actually assessed him seem to think he’s a terrorist not someone with mental health issues”

Which are the terrorists who don’t have mental issues,

“The problem with that is that the public reaction was completely predictable. Shouting out “Britain First”, if he did indeed say it, while murdering a woman in a British street isn’t going to get people rushing to join or support Britain First. Even an idiot could figure that out.”

This. Cui bono.

“Which are the terrorists who don’t have mental issues,”

SOE? …but I take your point.

“Which are the terrorists who don’t have mental issues,”

“One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”

Which is not to say I’m defending anyone here, but it does raise a question, has there everyone been a genuine terrorist organisation that was ultimately proved to be “right”.

Umkhonto we Sizwe is the only one that springs to mind but no doubt there are more.

Defining what a “genuine terrorist” is would help get an answer.

“has there everyone been a genuine terrorist organisation that was ultimately proved to be “right”.”

Any of the various insurgencies that resisted Nazi rule.

Defining what a “genuine terrorist” is would help get an answer.

Geneva conventions, additional protocol 1, article 44 sets out the difference between those who retain lawful combatant status, allied to the other articles which set out what amounts to legitimate military targets, and thus set out fairly clearly who can rightly be called guerilla/resistance forces, and those who are terrorists.

In brief, if you’re not in an country occupied by foreign military forces, are not wearing a uniform, and are planting a bomb in a pub or nightclub… then you’re not a freedom fighter.

In brief, if you’re not in an country occupied by foreign military forces, are not wearing a uniform, and are planting a bomb in a pub or nightclub… then you’re not a freedom fighter.

Not really. Palestinians are still classified as terrorists even if they put on uniforms.

EDIT : Good point about “planting a bomb in a pub or nightclub”. You are allowed to drop a bomb from a plane onto a pub or nightclub, or wedding party, but not place it inside.

The good guys drop bombs, the bad guys plant them.

What’s “best” for Remain is to insinuate that the murder was somehow organised / supported by the broader Leave camp. Its pretty clear its already been used that way not least outside the UK, French TV was very much making those comments and noting how Merkel was aligning extremism/murder etc with the rejection of “European-ism”

What’s your point ?

That one minute the hard-left see her as a target for abuse and the next she’s a campaigning heroin, the latter is the truth but it will never stop the hard-left abuse. FWIW the hard-left are exactly thise who think JC is the new messiah

What’s “best” for brexit is to insinuate that the remain campaign are using this tragedy for political gains, to keep repeating this lie, this dirty and particularly nasty political/debating technique to tarnish their opposition. To pretend to take the moral high ground while being completely hypocritical in actually abusing this tragedy.

Jamba – leave did not organise the murder of Jo Cox, but the hate preaching of Farage, the Mail and the Express amongst others made that murder or something similar more likely. Tell people often enough that their representatives are corrupt traitors who have betrayed the British people, and parts of the British people, particularly the impressionable, start to believe them.
Now I don’t think you are impressionable, and I doubt the Mail et al affected you much – but I doubt you’re the average man in the street (I’m probably not either).
Your worries of a Greek melt down are the best leave argument I’ve yet heard – I don’t think it outweights the arguments to stay but at least it’s a reasonable concern.

bencooper – Member
Well, the accused has been sent to Belmarsh under the terrorist protocol, not a secure hospital – so the people who’ve actually assessed him seem to think he’s a terrorist not someone with mental health issues.

An assessment on his mental health will be an ongoing process. From what the media have reported – his history and the name he gave in court; I would guess the state of his mental health has played a bigger part in this whole tragic incident.

Some of you guys point scoring and being pedantic over this really need to ask yourself why …

the name he gave in court

That is a bit of a red herring, just because he took the opportunity to make a political statement at that time, does not mean he believes that is his name.

It should also be noted that just because he has suffered from mental illness in the past that does not make him stupid or vulnerable.

In the event of a narrow remain vote do you think the likes of Mair and his Britain First chums will realise that their actions actually caused the opposite of what they want?

It certainly made my mind up to vote remain.

the hate preaching of Farage, the Mail and the Express amongst others made that murder or something similar more likely.

Really? I would suggest that the fact that this bloke appears to have spent decades exposed to messages of hate that were far, far beyond anything at we have read in the press or from Farage, from real niche extremists (has anyone else actually heard of the springbok club or national alliance previously? They’re hardly mainstream) seems to point toward whatever attracted or brainwashed him into all this hatred being far beyond an article in the newspaper on Polish plumbers.

It makes someone as potty as him feel that what he believes is legitimate and that others are on his side.

Sounds like the type of justification that has us telling normal and moderate Muslims that they are to blame for extremists because they don’t ‘speak out’ against or publically ‘condemn’ them.

Farage, Mail etc are not idle bystanders who did nothing ninfan, now are they? It’s not that they “don’t condem” the hatred of moderate politicians or the current position – they actively encourage it.

Your point is off the mark.

Psychological operations (PSYOP) are planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and individuals.

Agree with igm, you’re well off, and you know it.

They also didn’t put a gun in his hand and tell him to kill anyone – and from the dates of his involvement in these radical groups going back years and years, it would seem they didn’t make him hate brown people either.

What you are attempting to do is rationalise insanity to fit into your perception and understanding of causative factors- it’s a perfectly human thing to do, we look for patterns and connections, X causes Y. There has to be causation, it’s the only rational explanation.The problem is that things like this aren’t rational and predictable, they are black swan events, Such analysis is excluded by the very nature of insanity. ‘Right wing’ Newspapers and the press and politicians are no more to blame for this than ‘left wing’ ones were for the murder of Pym Fortyun or the attack on Stephen TImms a few years ago.

Ninfan, you are the NRA and I claim my free AR15

It’s been obvious that the continual barage of xenophobic lies spewed out by the Brexit debate would embolden the racists. How can they not feel legitimised, when it’s no longer just Farige, the Daily Heil and the Sun, but Gove and Johnson telling us how evil foreigners are and how they are invading our streets and conquered our parliament.

So if Farage or Trump gets assassinated tomorrow whose fault will it be? What about if someone shoots Red Ken?

The lesson is that you always find someone who’s said or done something that will have ’caused’ something to happen in hindsight.

The lesson is don’t encourage hatred.

And perhaps, don’t ally yourself with individuals that do, though that is more difficult sometimes I know.

kimbers – Member
… but Gove and Johnson telling us how evil foreigners are and how they are invading our streets and conquered our parliament.

Except they have never said this.

However, somehow you seem convinced they have.

Right-wing or left-wing … delusions can distort either ideological perceptions. Get a grip fella!

Was last Thursday the last MP local constituency surgery before next week’s vote?

So much for the ‘lone wolf with mental health issues story being put around by those with a right wing agenda..
There’s a photo doing the rounds with the killer stood holding a BF banner (Northern Brigade) with a group of his BF colleagues.

you mean this one?

mental health issues? my arse!! his actions were fuelled by his hateful racist ideology

jambalaya – Member

“What’s your point ?”

That one minute the hard-left see her as a target for abuse and the next she’s a campaigning heroin, the latter is the truth but it will never stop the hard-left abuse. FWIW the hard-left are exactly thise who think JC is the new messiah

I know it might sound ridiculous to ask you jambalaya but I have actually any evidence to back up this claim?

As a fully paid up member of the “hard-left” I am not aware of what you allege and I feel slightly resistant to believe it just because you claim it.

And a direct source please, not some link to what someone in the Daily Mail claimed.