I dont 'get' it. Sorry. You pay the group organiser £20 to join. A lad came upto me in my local wineshop and told me about Manchester biking group. So I had a look on their website, £20 annual subscription. WTF? Looks like they have over 170 registered members as well.

I know theres arguements for this just like there is for roadbike clubs however I didnt get into mountain biking for Treasurers or leaders

hoora in i am cheap bastard shocker…

It's ok, Hora, they wouldn't accept you or your money.

Don't join then.

thats what I was thinking clubber.

Depends on what they are getting for the £20. If it includes and element of insurance or some other benefits then i can see the attraction.

I pay £2 for every training session my son goes to at football. Thats more than £20 per annum and I TAKE THE TRAINING 🙂

I assume you get something for the £20? Discount at a local shop or something they have negotiated? Could be worth it for that?

What do you get for £20? BC licence? Insurance?

Clubs do cost money to run as well, every other sport I've ever been involved in has charges some sort of membership fee rangeign from £30 to several hundred.

MTB seems to be the only one where I can rock up, no insurance, no membership. But then agin thats because its 'groups' rather than organised 'clubs'. If I wanted to race every weekend then joining a club would make sense.

If its a formal club and they organise official rides etc then they are probably using a portion of the membership fees to pay for public liability insurance, which can be quite expensive.

Of course the way around paying for such insurance is not to be an 'official' group and instead ride as many MTBers do, in ad hoc groups of mates That might not protect an individual from being sued though if they were to ride into someone whilst out and about and cause an injury.

I like the partisan, loose-group nature with no hierarchy or perceived rules. I also dont want the annual meetings with any form of minutes. Its just not me.

Yikes!!

That's just under 5 1/2 p per day

Daylight robbery

🙄

If you don't like it, don't join

roadies with fat tyres.

what do you get for 20 quid? im intrigued.

It's to keep the undesireables out. And it seems to have worked.

I pay a sub, that goes to permits x 2, CTC insurance and a bit for stuff like gazebos BBQs etc for weekends and events.

Its not the "£20" as such. Its the thought of meetings etc. It just seems a tad….'Germanic'? 🙄

To keep the undesirables out? Or the nerds locked it? A sort of after school 'Chess club' 😉

hora – Member
I like the partisan, loose-group nature with no hierarchy or perceived rules. I also dont want the annual meetings with any form of minutes. Its just not me.

Choice is a wonderful thing isnt it

I bet the other 170 people find having a rigid schedule where they dont have to worry about navigation and can guarentee a ride find it an attractive proposition. They maybe also find being a 'member' brings benefits and a feeling of belonging to a club. Horses for courses.

I sometimes find that mountain bikers over do the relaxed and loose group nature thing because they think that its a cool thing to do. I get very pissed off when i make arrangements and they fall apart at the last minute. Again horses for courses.

I can see why a small annual fee is necessary, but I agree the idea of a proper club with rules and a treasurer etc puts me right off. I do find it funny that the Bogtrotters say they charge non-members who come along on a ride something like £2. Seems a bit petty for someone who wants to come along to see what it's like.

I sometimes find that mountain bikers over do the relaxed and loose group nature thing because they think that its a cool thing to do. I get very pissed off when i make arrangements and they fall apart at the last minute. Again horses for courses.

I can understand that/your argument there.

clubber – Member

It's ok, Hora, they wouldn't accept you or your money.

clubber, as Hora is on the lookout for a club, can we set a temporary £50 joining fee for LVIS?

Newforce anyone?
AGMs and newsletters… but the riding was rubbish!

(Note: I have only been on one ride with Newforce, I'm sure they are terrific)

Our 'club' doesn't charge a bean. You simply pay when you share transport somewhere. Having said that, if there was a sub of £20, I think it would be worth it. The guy in charge of our club has a van especially for club use – and he only charges for petrol, nowt else!

I get very pissed off when i make arrangements and they fall apart at the last minute. Again horses for courses.

you dont need a "rigid club structure" for that, thats just plain rude, in any situation. you need riding mates who think about other people as well as themselves?

The guy in charge of our club has a van especially for club use – and he only charges for petrol, nowt else!

Bloody good bloke. You know thats how local people get nominated for MBE's etc 😀

A local group here in the south charge, was meant to be for some sort of affiliation but nowt happens.

£12 goes to the CTC for 3rd party insurance, which also protects the club officials and ride leaders from liability claims from riders. I imagine the rest, as with the Bog Trotters, goes on website and other incidental expenses. Some people are joiners, some aren't – it's no big deal.

Surely you can haggle them down Hora?

£20 is probably just their starting position.

I do find it funny that the Bogtrotters say they charge non-members who come along on a ride something like £2

it's not a charge, it's a requested donation. Most seem to be happy to contribute and we rake in about £300 a year from it. I was strongly against the idea, but I found newbies liked it as it made them feel part of the club

The club's ok…I've not got to ride with them as much as I'd have liked since joining but they are a good source of routes around Mcr and further afield, and thankfully have none of the pain in the ass macho attitude that can sometimes afflict the sport..try them out as a guest?

The great advantage of a road club is knowing that if you turn up at such-and-such a point at such-and-such a time there will be people, who you don't necessarily know, going for a ride. That means you will go out, and have a sociable ride, even if none of your mates are going. A couple of the people I ride with regularly are genuinely mates. Most of them are clubmates that I enjoy riding with but don't see socially at all.

You're greatly over-estimating the pomp and circumstance of annual general meetings as well. My club meets briefly in a pub. There is fully 30 minutes of "official" business, mostly consiting of thanking the half dozen people who have been working at promoting events, dealing with the money and members lists and organising sponsorship and discounts etc. There then follows a buffet supper and some heavy drinking. It is much the same as the annual party, except that that event lacks the official business, and cuts straight to drinking and ogling one another's spouses.

I wonder if they"re AALA licensed?

As I understand it, and I might be wrong, if you charge for providing mountain biking activities (as opposed to transport/food etc) then you come within the AALA regulations.

Olly i totally agree and my riding mates are very good in this respect. What i would say is that there are 'others' who dont put such a high priority on this. In that case maybe the people have decided that a rigid structure suits their group better.

I think the only ride i ever did where i paid (Other than parking) was to a Bogtrotters ride. I enjoyed the ride and didnt begrudge them it.

Hmm "clubs" not for me I'm afraid.

Like a few here my idea if a club is a few mates getting together and orgonising stuff by email and the like.

I have been a member of the Mickey Mouse Mountaineering Club for 20 years and never had to pay out a penny, because it is what it is, a bunch of mates who get out and do a bit.

But each to their own I guess.

Its not the "£20" as such. Its the thought of meetings etc. It just seems a tad….'Germanic'?

we have 6 meetings a year: an AGM (which I accidentally forgot to arrange this year), an Xmas do and 4 to pick the rides for the next 3 months. Since I am the secretary, the minutes consist of a few notes scribbled on the back of the rides list. We never discuss invading Poland.

This is where the Tunnel Hill Trolls came from. Like minded people that didn't want to join a club. (Not knocking clubs by the way. If I was 'up North, I'd probably join the Bogtrotters)

There's still no membership fee and no requirements to DO anything if you don't want to. But we have a website, lots of organised rides (MTB, Road and even the odd motorbike ride) for all abilites, a nice big gazebo with our logo on it (Fek knows who paid for that!) and our last jersey order was something like 60+ in number.
Yes we have an 'AGM' but it's really just beer and nibbles round someone's house and a discussion about what races and big trips we're gonna do. Stuff gets written down, cleared up, and put on the website.
We have lots of people capable of leading rides, and we know people everywhere if we fancy going somewhere else for a day out.
Things happen in a fluid sort of way – Got an idea, fancy a ride? Put it on the forum and see what interest you get. It's VERY social.
People drift in and out, because they can and they don't feel obliged to do anything. Currently 406 members on the forum, so it works for us….

SFB, let me lay my cards out for you. Ive never knocked you (ever), I actually like your photography etc. This is not a dig against you either. In no shape or form. 🙂

Its just a different mentality/approach to the same hobby.

Are you sure you dont have meetings along the lines of Downfall?

Peterpoddy, I love you man. x

AALA only applies to under 18s BTW.

PeterPoddy, that all sounds really good and I'm not knocking what you're doing, but the primary reason that MMB charges is because of the need to insure people who organise rides against negligence.

With your group/club whatever you call it, what happens if someone has a bad crash because someone said something was easy when it wasn't and decides to sue because they can't work anymore and have to pay the mortgage?

I know those sort of events are rare, but they also have the potential to ruin those involved. I know you're going to say that it's not a club, but from what you've written above,the law would treat it as a club.

I didnt get into mountain biking for Treasurers or leaders

I'm also treasurer which translates roughly as putting the money and cheques into a jar eventually paying them into the bank. As for leaders, my experience over many years of riding is that it's best to have one nominal leader to cut down on unnecessary discussions at every junction. It's just simpler, and everyone who wants to gets a turn to lead.

SFB, let me lay my cards out for you. Ive never knocked you (ever)

I didn't think you were 🙂 People are often critical of the club idea as if it always led to moribund hierarchies, and while I acknowledge that it can happen, there are thriving, successful clubs too. Everyone is free to chose how and when they ride

Just to reiterate. This thread isn't an 'attack' on organised groups. Boggys have a great premise- nurturing and encouraging riders. Its just not for me. I prefer more of a loose-collective where I can actively drift between riders (and more importantly)- I enjoy riding solo for most of my rides.

As for leaders, my experience over many years of riding is that it's best to have one nominal leader to cut down on unnecessary discussions at every junction.

I can definitely see the logic in that.

what happens if someone has a bad crash because someone said something was easy when it wasn't and decides to sue because they can't work anymore and have to pay the mortgage?

Couldn't that theoretically happen anyway regardless of whether it's a club or just a ride out with a mate?