A few weeks back i recorded "Tonight, Driver in the Dock" and watched it tonight, and I actually have to agree with what Quentin Wilson said!!

How many other people watched it and what did you think of it? Should motor vehicle drivers always be to blame for accidents? (i know its old but thats when i got time to watch it)

Quentin Wilson basically said, after spending a couple of hours driving round central London, that if you ride a bike like you would drive a car i.e. stop at red lights, dont jump onto pavements, use lights, look around you, then cycling is not dangerous and cars, lorrys, taxis and cyclists can all share the roads without too many issues. He also concluded that cyclists should be made accountable when they are on the roads and have number plates etc.

If there was a one off fee of something like £15-25 for a number plate and registering that plate to you and is transferable from bike to bike, then i would do it, I have nothing to hide from, no dangerous riding to be ashamed of.

I dont think cyclists are always blameless and therefore i dont think that the drivers should always get the blame. I abide by the rules of the road whether i'm in the car or on the bike, and i've never put myself at risk of being knocked off or even come close to it in my 14 years of riding bikes on and off road.

What are other peoples opinions on this?

PS, i'm not a 'petrolhead' but i do have a car and use it most days so can see it from both sides.

PPS, the way it basically revolved around london and the SE got on my t*ts and i'm a born and bred londoner.

What is needed is a way to make drivers more aware that they can kill a cyclist without even feeling the bump.

I do agree with the idea of cyclists being bound by the rules of the road. It makes me cross when I see some gonk ride across a red light and onto the pavement. But I'm anti the idea of a number plate: it would cost a mad fortune to administer. It wouldn't be 'just twenty-five quid' would it?

For purely practical reasons, how can I hang it on eg my 10" travel d/h bike that will also work on my carbon TT bike?

Should motor vehicle drivers always be to blame for accidents?

No, and I don't believe anybody ever suggested they should be. It sounds like some Fleet Street distortion of reality you've bought into.

I think big cities have more problems as more non cyclist cycle- you know cycle as it is quicker than walking but not really cyclists – where I commute I see about 4 cyclists a year in a 25 mile round trip. Most of my problems are just car drivers being inconsiderate ****ts. I doubt any of us are claiming all cyclist are great /safe cyclists and a lot of stuff – ridingon pavements jumping lights does not help the cause

Quentin Wilson basically said, after spending a couple of hours driving round central London…

he could get back to you when he's done the same on a bike

swoosh do you ride your bike in town?

Sorry – I didn't see the programme but what you say is a load of twaddle. I obey the rules of the road at least as much as the average car drive – occasionally going thru red lights at badly designed junctions where that is safer for me to do so.

Every day my life is put in danger by idiots in cars either deliberately or accidently. 99% of the time I can take avoiding action and thus not hit them.

Number plates – don't be ridiculous. Several counties have tried this

And who is going to pay the millions of ££ necessary to implement number plates on bikes? Certainly not the cyclists. There'd be uproar, it would be completely totally unenforceable. There are more bikes in the UK than there are cars – who is going to sit down and devise a number plate system that covers all existing bikes and all new ones? And are the police going to be knocking on every door or pursuing every cyclist they see to enforce it? Of course not, they can't even catch the hundreds of thousands of motorists who drive under false plates or with no insurance/tax/MOT.

I'm all in favour of cyclists having insurance (surely that's just common sense?) but the "road tax" and number plates for cyclists is never ever going to happen for any number of logistical reasons.

Compulsory number plates? How about compulsory helmets first? 🙄

Yes he should ride around London on a bike!

Hey TJ, which countries tried out the numberplate madness?

i've never put myself at risk of being knocked off or even come close to it in my 14 years of riding bikes on and off road.

What are other peoples opinions on this?

I'm a very, very defensive cyclist – I ride as if I'm invisible and like TJ, regularly have to take evasive action to avoid death or serious injury. I'm amazed that you have never had a problem. Also, I'm equally amazed that you've never hurt yourself offroad – you're obviously not trying hard enough 😛

Bollox. I just did a massive rant about this and it's all lost!!

Anyway I concluded that Quentin Willson is an utter pr1ck and I stick by that.
Number plates? Most people riding bikes can't even be bothered to pay a few quid for lights ffs.

johnners – Member

Should motor vehicle drivers always be to blame for accidents?

No, and I don't believe anybody ever suggested they should be. It sounds like some Fleet Street distortion of reality you've bought into.

I hope you are right Johnners. I've had a few coming together with cars, some my fault, some not.

Got hit by some pillock turning left in front of me at a roundabout as I was going straight on, substantial dent in her rear wing, no damage to my bike so we let it go.
Clipped by a wing mirror on an A-road. I was doing 25-30mph, car was doing upwards of 70. Hurt (a lot) but I stayed upright, driver didn't stop. Very scarey.
Hit a wing mirror as I was riding down the middle of two rows of traffic. Didn't break it but I stopped and appologised.
Rode into the back of a car stopped at some lights. Smashed his rear windscreen and broke his spoiler. Trip to A&E for some stitches. He was very nice about it and my insurers paid for his repairs.

If the rumours about the mad idea are correct that last one would have been legally his fault and I could have sued him for my injuries! 😯

What really pi$$es me off is people who don't dip headlights for me, almost all my riding is rural roads with no street lights. New big light seems to allow me to fight back, keep turning it up until they do. Whilst I'm on the subject, what is it with stupid people and foglights? When I'm driving I flash my lights at them and they just flash back, they still don't get the message when I flash my fogs at them. Had a near miss on the M3, middle lane hogger with his fogs on, everyone else taking it for brake lights and taking avoiding action. And don't start me on middle lane hogers either. When one has been behind them for a while and a they still haven't got the message after a couple of hoots, am I allowed to undertake them? (technically I think to be classed as an undertake I would have to come out of the middle or outside lane to the inside, go passed them and them return to the middle or outside, whereas I go from inside to middle, give them a hoot and if they don't move over go back to inside, go passed and then stay in the inside)

Rant over.

Chopper – not sure. I remember seeing number plates on bikes on summer hols as a kid

i've got a short commute. 15 mins or so. Everyday 10 drivers will do something to put my life at risk. 9 wont even realise they've done it and the other 1 wont think they've done anything wrong or care. Get the bad drivers off the road first then we can start addressing bad cyclists.

I remember seeing the programme. They were rather fuzzy about the proposed laws.

As I understood it, what was to be proposed was a situation where in the event of an accident with a bike, the onus was automatically on the driver to prove their innocence. Or every drivers insurance policy would automatically cover collisions with cyclists regardless of the party at fault.

At any rate, the prog didn't go into any real detail, it just bandied about worst case scenarios and ask some cabbies in a greasy spoon whether they should cop the blame if they hit a cyclist. Or something. Oh I cant remember. Seemed sensationalist to me.

If the rumours about the mad idea are correct that last one would have been legally his fault and I could have sued him for my injuries!

My {limited} understanding of the way it works in most European countries is that an accident is assumed to be the car drivers fault unless it can be demonstrated otherwise – so in that case it clearly was your fault

+1 for what scaredypants said.

Here's the argument to balance petrol head Wilson's biased opinions.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4686

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the number of adult cyclists on the road at any one point, dwarfed by the total number of uninsured, banned or illegal drivers?
Clearly numberplates(and an expensively administered scheme at that) havent made too much difference there, why would a cheaper unenforceble version for a minor social nuisance ( as the statistics would suggest crap cyclists are) work better?
I'm not as fearful of urban cycling as some of you, I fairly strictly obey road traffic law, and dont think it puts me at greater danger, but no matter how legal I am I dont kid myself that It gets me much respect( most motorists are as ignorant of what cyclists can do as they are 'experts'in what they cant.)
Cyclists are hated, not for the bad behavior of some (see London) but because they're slow when the motorist wants to go fast, and fast when the motorist is stuck stationary in traffic.
Its simple jealousy