Viewing 32 posts - 1 through 32 (of 32 total)
  • More what car questions….sorry. Petrol or diesel
  • rhid
    Full Member

    I have narrowed my choice of new car (well new to me but 2nd hand) to a small estate such as the Skoda Fabia, Pegueot 207SW etc. This is a positive thing, however do I go for petrol or diesel?

    Initially I though diesel for economy both in fuel costs and tax etc but having done a bit of research I am not so sure.

    My commute to work is between 10 and 12 miles, I will use the car on weekends for longer drives, some motorway some driving from North to Mid Wales. Which type of engine would suit me the best? I have read about desiels suffering more on the short journeys with particulate build up in filters and the like.

    It seems that the petrol engines are generally (a bit) cheaper to buy but the mpg is vastly different between the two! Any advice would be much appreciated, especially if you have faced the same dilemma – what did you do?

    angeldust
    Free Member

    Generally speaking, a 10 mile commute to work is not enough to justify going for diesel over petrol (in terms of cost). How many miles do you do a year? I would not consider diesel unless I was doing over 15-20K pa, which is where the extra mpg starts to outweigh other factors (more expensive purchase price, fuel and servicing). Also depends on if you are buying new or used, and how long you expect to keep the car. Diesels can be very nice to drive, but generally still don’t sound great on startup or when crawling in traffic. Personally I much prefer driving a turbo petrol.

    hebridean
    Free Member

    I had the same decision to make last year and went for the petrol Skoda Fabia Estate 1.2 TSI having had a succession of 2.0l TDI VW Passats. The fuel economy is at least as good as the last VW (07 model,if not better with a frugal driving style (can get up to 57mpg). The Skoda drives very well overtakes well (better than I expected) and is very comfortable for 4 people on a long drive (5 adults can squeeze in). With the seats folded down there’s plenty room for bikes and gear for 2 folk.

    The advice I was given at the time is that diesel was only worth it if doing over 12k miles per annum.

    Really enjoying the Skoda!

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    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    As above, depends on mileage. I did the sums a few years ago (on a new car, Golf/focus sized) and the diesel didn’t start to pay back until I hit 60,000 miles, 20,000 a year for 3 years.
    Personally I gladly pay a bit more to run a petrol car as I’ve never driven a diesel I like. And I’ve driven a lot. By choice my main transport is motorbike anyway. 🙂

    CaptainSlow
    Full Member

    You need to calculate the break even point over x number of years based on your mileage taking into account mileage and additional purchase cost as a min.

    Or you buy one or the other because you prefer it.

    Personally based on what I know from the OP I would buy petrol in your position. Modern petrols are getting pretty efficient and you appear to forecast low mileage.

    It was a while ago but I seem to remember my last calculations on break even for me ( over x years) was approx 18k pa

    MrNero50
    Free Member

    The last 2 cars I had were diesal. I’ve just moved back to a petrol.

    Reasons were, at only 13,000 ish miles a year the cost of the diseal car over a petrol one, really weren’t worth it.

    As above you really do need to do 20,000 miles plus per year to get the benifits.

    Fuel consumption wise: Ford Kuga 4×4 around 35mpg diesal, Toyota Avensis Touring around 45 mpg diseal. Currently Subaru Outback 2.5l Auto around 30 mpg petrol. So with petrol 10p per litre cheaper, fuel costs are comparable and petrol cars do drive nicer.

    rhid
    Full Member

    Thanks for the advice, my annual milage is around 12k so not massive, mostly on A+B roads and country lanes. I tend to keep cars for a while so I don’t know if that makes any difference?

    I do like the Skoda a lot, but the 207SW is a strong contender too!

    orangeboy
    Free Member

    My current run about (golf estate 130 tdi) is not working out cheaper to run than my old a4 estate petrol turbo was.
    To many short trips have dropped the recorded mpg to 42 ish on the golf even driving like a granny
    The a4 was far more fun and did not have dmf issue waiting for me
    I’m having a save up to chop the golf in for another fast Petrol estate

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “petrol cars do drive nicer. “

    maybe in auto – personally i like not having to change gear for hills 😉

    but still at those milages id buy a petrol.

    what age you looking at.

    peugeot – i am a fan of but after about 80k miles they do start to show their age …. it will likely keep going but will develop quirky electrics.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    petrol cars do drive nicer.

    I’d just hate to be stuck behind this chugging away up a hill

    rhid
    Full Member

    I reckon upto 5 years old so anything from 2009 upwards. I think it depends on the milage a bit. Have seen a 207 2010 25k miles for a decent amount, will look at a few more options today and hopefully test drive a few soon. My GF hasd a desiel Clio which I may see if I can borrow for a few days to see how I get on with it on regular commuter driving. I have limited experience with diesels and how they drive so a bit research wont hurt!

    unovolo
    Free Member

    Having driven petrol and diesel cars for years I much prefer a diesel for everyday use.
    I prefer the generally larger spread of torque and the lower revs of a diesel.
    My father has a petrol powered Fiesta that I drive probably once or twice a month and always seems a bit frenetic in comparison(Diesel Cmax and Kangoo Van).

    Once a week each one gets a good blast up & down the local motorway to clear it out and seems to do the trick with keeping them running good.
    On a recent run to the Cotswolds the Cmax which has the older 1.8 TDCI engine averaged 56mpg which is good enough for me and far more economical than a 1.4 petrol A-class that it replaced.

    alibongo001
    Full Member

    You can work this out on a spreadsheet!

    Do a sliding scale of cost of fuel for the rough number of miles you do per year, then add in any other costs which may be different between the cars -servicing intervals may be different, road tax etc (keep it simple by not doing the calculations for things which will be the same eg tyres)

    You may be surprised to see how little the overall cost is driven by fuel consumption (depreciation is a key factor on total life cost)

    I think the length of ownership is key, you would probably need to keep a diesel for 60k miles, which may be 5 years at your rate of mileage.

    IA
    Full Member

    I’ve a diesel berlingo – I’ve got it cos it drove a lot better than the petrol one, pulls a lot better when it’s got a load of stuff/people in.

    I do quite low mileage, so it’s not “worth” it, but it makes it a much nicer car in use.

    CaptainSlow
    Full Member

    I’m another diesel fan for driving – less gear change, more torque etc (manual).

    When I change my car next 18-20k pa, having driven modern autos now I’ll be after a petrol auto 🙂

    john_drummer
    Free Member

    Orangeboy are you confusing your DMF and DPF?

    Dual Mass Flywheel is part of the clutch and could be fitted to both petrol and diesel cars. Diesel Particulate Filter, on the other hand…

    anyway, on a car of that size and mileage I’d go for petrol. The Skoda will depreciate slower than the Peugeot. Test drive them both and see which one you prefer

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “depreciation is a key factor on total life cost”

    He speaketh the truth.

    “Dual Mass Flywheel is part of the clutch and could be fitted to both petrol and diesel cars. Diesel Particulate Filter, on the other hand… “

    DMFs are notorious also BUT can more often than not be attributed to driving style – folks with no clutch control who are used to just dumping diesel clutches – wheel spinning out of junctions all the time – especially those who have had the soft start remapped out of their cars – IIRC ford had the torque limited in lower gears to preserve the life of DMF – but forums/tuners know better of course.

    skoda will depreciate slower but be more expensive for parts. It will also likely be more expensive/higher milage at the outset.

    globalti
    Free Member

    If there’s nothing in it I would always go for a diesel; I enjoy the acceleration and the flexibility – my Passat Tdi will pootle along in any gear on tickover with no throttle then if you give it some pedal it simply picks up and drives off, which is great in a go-slow.

    I also get a big kick out of cruising along and not being able to hear any engine noise, then checking the revs and seeing that it’s only just doing 1000 rpm.

    The weight of the engine and the low torque also makes it pretty good in snow.

    core
    Full Member

    I do about 20,000 miles a year, nearly exclusively on rural A, B & unclassified roads, and for me I still can’t justify a diesel I don’t think, nearly all of my journeys are less than 30 miles, and usually shorter than that (I’m a building Inspector).

    That’s not good for a modern diesel as far as I know, short, stop/start journeys and not many decent runs, plus you have to factor in not only servicing but replacement of injectors, turbo, fuel pumps, dual mass flywheel, particulate filters etc on anything diesel if you plan on keeping it any length of time.

    My mechanic keeps warning me off all but a few diesels.

    I use my own car for work, and would get paid the same mileage (45ppm) whatever car I have, so am in a fortunate position, obviously the more economical my car is the better I do out of it, but my 2003 focus (1.6 petrol) does high 30’s – 40 mpg, with colleagues in diesels getting 40 – 42mpg generally. I just can’t see the benefit (besides amount of torque and grunt up hills).

    Need to change my car this spring, focus has done 135,000 miles and is getting very tired now, but am stumped what to go for. Obvious choice seems another focus, but not sure how the MK 2’s compare?

    thegreatape
    Free Member

    low torque

    Thought diesels had higher torque, like-for-like ? Unless you mean torque at low revs?

    njee20
    Free Member

    I think second hand it’s a closer run thing – personally I tend to think “I’ll spend x on a car”, irrespective of fuel type, so the purchase cost is the same. Tax is cheaper on a diesel, not to mention the fuel costs on a like for like performance basis. So you’re just left with servicing costing more really and even that’s only really an issue when expensive things like DPFs go wrong, with many places offering fixed price servicing.

    I’m not convinced there’s all that much in it.

    New – absolutely, no point paying a £2k premium unless you’re doing big miles.

    bikemike1968
    Free Member

    As you have probably worked out from the replies above petrol is the way to go.
    A second hand Peugeot is a brave mans choice. The 207 is far better built than a 206, but is still likely to have reliability problems a plenty.

    A petrol Fabia would be a sound choice, very little goes wrong. Or, even better, buy a petrol corolla verso- nothing will go wrong.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    Diesel Bluemotion Golf here – although we don’t to lots of long journeys there are lots of smaller trips throughout the day and we probably do about 16k/year.
    MPG shows at 51 over the last 16k so fairly happy. Car was 12 months old when we got it, but I don’t know what the price difference would have been for a similar petrol car…. smaller I would expect.
    I personally prefer driving a diesel.

    richmtb
    Full Member

    Get a petrol, its easier to spell for a start

    molgrips
    Free Member

    There’s a lot of anti-hype about diesels, but it’s not as bad as it sounds.

    Firstly, 10-12 miles is not a short trip really. The advice about short trips is for people who ONLY drive into town or to the shops. And you’ve already said you’ll be doing longer trips at weekends, so I think you’d be absolutely fine on that score.

    The short trip issue is about two things. Really really short trips cause the engine to coke up inside, which will cause trouble if you don’t clear it out with a longer run or occasional Italian tune-up.

    However if your car has a DPF it will need to be given enough time at a warm enough temperature to clean out the filter itself. If you don’t do this, you get a warning light, which means you have to follow the instructions and take it for a thrash. If you don’t do THAT then you’ll get problems.

    Unless, that is, you have certain Ford, Mazda or possibly Peugot engines (not sure on those though so check). These DPFs are a poor design and are a service item at 70k miles or so IIRC. Plus you need to put a special additive in the car which can only be refilled at a dealer or some such nonsense.

    DMFs are susceptible to poor driving style. Don’t thrash its nuts off all the time, and don’t labour at really low revs ie below about 1300 and you’ll probably be fine.

    Also the cost issue to me is only applicable if you buy new. If buying used, just get a slightly older diesel for the same price as a petrol. It won’t really make much difference in the long run. The condition of an old car is far more dependent on how its been looked after than how many miles it’s done.

    And for me the experience of driving a diesel is far better than petrol, unless you are talking about turbo petrols or big V6s. A 1.6 petrol has nothing going for it at all, but a similar power 1.9 diesel will be far nicer imo.

    MadBillMcMad
    Full Member

    fom my recent experience I would say petrol.

    We had a golf diesel, so I guess the same engine.
    It started stalling or refusing to start, needed new filters & fuel full clean & a lot of time & hassel.

    It was potentially very expensive but we got rid.
    Do some googling. We are not alone in this experience.
    It was also featured on the Beeb as a known issue,

    Conclusion from the garage. Diesel is great if you are doing
    high motorway mileage, but they do not like short drives where they do not get properly hot.

    sobriety
    Free Member

    peugeot – i am a fan of but after about 80k miles they do start to show their age

    This is a lie – mine (407SW) started at about 55k 😉

    However, I would still have a peugeot over a vag car as I find pugs more comfortable places to be.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    started stalling or refusing to start, needed new filters & fuel full clean & a lot of time & hassel

    Why was that VW’s fault? Surely bad fuel?

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    bad fuel – or as i am finding more and more – especially when i get calls off friends when their cars playing up – my first question is “when was it last serviced” usually followed by an arrrm and “it had an mot 3 months ago”

    servicing is optionalit would seem.

    njee20
    Free Member

    My Golf TDI has never missed a beat, had every intention of replacing it with a petrol car, as I don’t do all that many miles these days, but for the aforementioned reasons that I wasn’t buying new I’ve ended up with a newer Golf TDI after doing lots of sums. Something about forking out for a new (to me) car and having the running costs sky rocket seemed a little hard to swallow!

    I did also notice whilst doing research that a lot of the petrol engines may appear to get comparable economy to diesels on paper, but there seems to be more real world variation (again when looking at things a couple of years old).

    molgrips
    Free Member

    The small turbo petrol ones, tfsi, are extremely sensitive to driving and conditions, apparently. Much more so than diesels. People who get good economy from their diesels can struggle to get anything good from petrols despite trying.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    most petrols are sensitive to driving style

    i had a hyundai that returned maximum economy over several tanks while commuting at 4k rpm in 5th gear unfortunantly this coincided with 120kph(75mph) which is probably the speed limit hyundai-land(i have no idea where they are made)

    anything below this resulted in poorer economy – anything above this much poorer economy.

    my 1.9D van returns 40-42 wether i drive the tits off it or take a sedate journey. – it seems more sensitive to temperature than driving style. my turbo diesel frontera you can watch the gauge go down if you hold through the turbo often – how ever theres no need to do that as it has a decent displacement in the first place.

Viewing 32 posts - 1 through 32 (of 32 total)

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