I do enjoy the chappie bawling “tazer! tazer! tazer!!” every time he zaps the bloke. Presumably that is standard procedure. What do they yell when they’re using a proper gun? Is it “gun! gun! gun!”, “glock 9mm! glock 9mm! glock 9mm!” or just “die! die! die!”? 😀

As noted, being a police officer is a hard job, and if you piss them off they are legally empowered and carry weapons precisely for the purpose of hurting you really badly. If you do what they say, immediately and respectfully, making no sudden movements, then you have nothing to fear. 😉

TJ – Smee has extensive training in all the battle techniques of the hardened Zoo-Fighter. Ewe Nose it. 😉

TJ – growing up where I did provided many opportunities to deal with large violent drunk people. There are also some of the best martial arts instructors on the planet down there too, and not much else to do.

So trained in martial arts not control and restraint and “sorting out drunks” as a civilian not as a professional. So what martial art and to what level? What professional role did you have in restraining drunks?

Really qualifies you to comment on police control and restraint

Really qualifies you to comment on police control and restraint

I my book yes.
Martial arts not only teach you fighting skills but above all self discipline. However I can’t really see cops being trained in martial art. I would like to know why, as they would be able to restrain people without any abuse.

Juan – because control and restrain as the police use is very very different. I have seen it done a lot and I know that what the cops did in that clip was in accordance with their training pretty much

because control and restrain as the police use is very very different.

Maybe that were the problem is. I think hiring people with higher educations and no lone gun would probably help as well.
But hey you have your view on the coppers and I have mine, i just hope you’ll never get in charge, 1984 anyone…

I have seen it done a lot

but you have no official training as such TJ?

ROFLMAFAO @pook

One more keyboard/screen to clean LOl

BigDummy :”I do enjoy the chappie bawling “tazer! tazer! tazer!!” every time he zaps the bloke. Presumably that is standard procedure. What do they yell when they’re using a proper gun? Is it “gun! gun! gun!”, “glock 9mm! glock 9mm! glock 9mm!” or just “die! die! die!”?”

Wrong … if it is a gun then the police should have shouted “.45! .45! .45!” Rather theh Glock 9mm as that is blatant advertisement and promotion. Unfair advantage over other brand names that is not in the police force.

Once the gun is drawn they should then shout “Die you M*****f***er piece of waste! (American style) or do it the polite way “Take that! (by blowing off the guy’s left nut) … then make a joke about it and smile.”

For those drunken etc … just pepper spray them without saying a word then if they try to say something … zap them immediately.

That will learn them!!!

😆

Pook – I am trained in control and restraint but at a low level. Not done it for years however. The aim is to immobilise the person without injury to them or to the restrainers.

I sometimes work alongside the police and PCSOs in a police station- I have never seen control and restraint done so efficiently and safely. Usual score is around half a dozen a night that kick off in the cop shop and need to be restrained – so its just my observation but from an informed viewpoint.

Wpould you rather they batoned him?
Control and restraint techniques are not the same as martial arts. The aims are different and so are the techniques

My best mate was a firearms officer.

In the course of his service he was called to “live” events about once a week, to false alarms almost daily. (Think about the strain that puts on you as an individual and your relationships) He was severely beaten up and hospitalised on at least three occasions as a copper. Eventually when he did actually shoot someone dead in the line of duty the trauma of it was so great that of the officers in the team at the time, none are any longer in the force, all bar one has subsequently suffered from severe alcoholism, and all of them are now divorced. He and his family also received death threats from the dead offenders family.

Never on any occasion has he or his team gone overboard or over reacted to a situation. He has had to defend himself routinely from allegations as such as the above. None of those who have offended against him were ever charged wit hany offence.

Bottom line : These people are extraordinarily disciplined and well trained, they are painfully aware of cameras, mobile phones and the like and the potantial outcome for them if they over react. Drunks on the other hand behave like ****, are often violent and yet somehow always seem to be the entirely innocent party of assaults by Police. Strange…

However, boringly, “if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime” is my new watchword….. learnt that on here 😀

The man is alleged to have then assaulted an officer, who needed hospital treatment.

The man was subsequently arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm and released on police bail.

I reckon he viciously assaulted the coppers fist with his nose then laid into his toecaps with his groin. My brother got arrested and charged with assault for doing that.
Best police force in the world. Gawd bless ’em.

Just to make it clear – I am not saying cops don’t use unnecessary force sometimes – just on this occasion it does not appear to me to be so

How can you say that ? You have no conclusive evidence of what preceeded those events.

Much the same way that you haven’t monkey, so basically TJ’s supposition is just as valid as yours. More so really given that the bloke in question made no complaint, presumably not seeing it as appropriate even with the video, besides which the bill have voluntarily refered it to the IPCC so even more time and money can be wasted investigating another non event.

Oh yeah, and presumably your brother was minding his own business and doing nothing at all, sitting at home in his front room drinking tea when a van load of bill arrived out of nowhere for no reason and kicked the crap out of him right?

Never on any occasion has he or his team gone overboard or over reacted to a situation.

How do you know that then?

Much the same way that you haven’t monkey, so basically TJ’s supposition is just as valid as yours

I’ve got the evidence of a man being tazered on video. There is no evidence shown of the same man assaulting a PO. Furthermore, are you suggesting that you have to prove that you haven’t assaulted a PO in order to avoid being tazered ? That makes a lot of sense.

More so really given that the bloke in question made no complaint,

How do you know ?

Oh yeah, and presumably your brother was minding his own business and doing nothing at all, sitting at home in his front room drinking tea when a van load of bill arrived out of no where for no reason and kicked the crap out of him right?

No, peaceful protest on an anti NF march, randomly dragged out and assaulted then charged with assault. All charges dropped before it got to court. I know that he’d done nothing as I was marching beside him. Are you going to call me a liar because you can’t imagine that such a thing would happen ?

Anything else you’d like to say ? Try to make it worthwhile if you have.

How do you know that then?

a) Because I know him extremely well
b) Because there has never been any charge made against them
c) The few complaints that have been made have all been independantly investigated, and found to be not reasoanble in the prevailing circumstances.

Apart from that just guessing

trailmonkey – Member

How can you say that ? You have no conclusive evidence of what preceeded those events.

If thats aimed at me read my post above

TandemJeremy – Member

Just to make it clear – I am not saying cops don’t use unnecessary force sometimes – just on this occasion it does not appear to me to be so

Not conclusive – my opinion from the evidence I have which is that video clip and from the knowledge I have of control and restraint.

Not conclusive – my opinion from the evidence I have which is that video clip and from the knowledge I have of control and restraint

TJ,my point is that there is no evidence presented that the victim has done anything wrong at all, only that he has been charged, I know from experience that this means nothing at all. If the victim had done nothing, then you’d have to agree that the force was extremely excessive.

No, peaceful protest on an anti NF march, randomly dragged out and assaulted then charged with assault. All charges dropped before it got to court. I know that he’d done nothing as I was marching beside him. Are you going to call me a liar because you can’t imagine that such a thing would happen ?

Anything else you’d like to say ? Try to make it worthwhile if you have.

Yep there sure is. So what you are saying is that in front of a large number of witnesses, and for no reason whatosever the Police pulled your brother out of a crowd, presumably some 20 odd years ago and assaulted him, arrested him and charged him with assault, then dropped the charges. Did he take it further? Given what I know about the Police Complaints Authority even then that would be a dead cert for several officers jobs at the very least and probably prison sentences to boot. Now its a different world, and extremely unlikely as you are seeing in this thread that their actions would go unchallenged. Incidentally, I also was a victim of a Police assault. In 1963 the local bobby caught me scrumping and gave me a thick ear, then took me home and my dad gave me a hiding too. I tried to have them both for assault, but no one took any notice.

Regarding the bloke not making a complaint it was widely reported by the media at the time the video was published. It was then confirmed when the Chief Constable announced that due to the need to maintain public confidence they were going to refer the case to the IPCC despite no complaint having been made. Again apart from that just guessing.

I’ve got the evidence of a man being tazered on video. There is no evidence shown of the same man assaulting a PO.

What apart from the copper in question being hospitalised? Presumably punched his own lights out so his mates could have some fun but still be covered in case it got videoed?

Ah – I see your point TM. In the vid clip he is clearly resisting and the force used to subdue someone resisting arrest does not appear to me to be excessive – but yes we don’t know what happened before that apart from a copper was injured and the arrested man was drunk

So what you are saying is that in front of a large number of witnesses, and for no reason whatosever the Police pulled your brother out of a crowd, presumably some 20 odd years ago and assaulted him, arrested him and charged him with assault, then dropped the charges.

Yes, that’s exactly what happened. Why it makes a difference that it was 20 years ago, I don’t know. What I do know is that from seeing that, a law abiding person such as myself has grown up assuming that the police are violent thugs that act outside of the law and make up bogus charges as they see fit. I haven’t asked to have that opinion, it’s been forced upon me. My world would be a better place if it hadn’t. Being brutalised by the police was common place where I came from. It was a really productive tactic. 🙄

Did he take it further?

Yeah, he really fancied another kicking.

I also was a victim of a Police assault. In 1963 the local bobby caught me scrumping and gave me a thick ear, then took me home and my dad gave me a hiding too. I tried to have them both for assault, but no one took any notice.

I suppose you’re going to claim that a police man hitting a young child is acceptable now, a clip round the ear never hurt me, yada yada yada 🙄

Now I now the level we’re at, I’m not going to waste my time debating anymore.

I suppose you’re going to claim that a police man hitting a young child is acceptable now, a clip round the ear never hurt me, yada yada yada

Nope the point that I’m making is that its very unlikely to happen nowadays, and its not reasonable to make comparisions with what went on 20 years ago and now in this respect. A great deal has happened and the situation is very different. Exactly as you found my example fatuous, which it obviously intentionally was, so to be honest is yours in relation to this event. Surely you can see that?? You’ve compared a situation today with one 20 years ago, and I compared yours with an equally true one 20 odd years before that. Not unreasonable surely?

Not only that, if no complaint was made, its really pretty difficult to argue what the outcome might have been. As I recall it, and being closely involved with the Police force at the time, there would be a very high chance of a result, and pretty much nil of a further assault. Where are you talking about? Belfast??

Imagine if the guy in the footage was black. There’d have been big trouble, whole communities would be rampaging the streets baying for blood. Innocent people would be murdered in “revenge” attacks and **** “community” spokesmen would be telling us their community is not to blame, blah blah blah.

I thought the same when that dude died a few months back during the London riots, but luckily he was white. I really really hope this never happens but I think it probably will.

Where are you talking about? Belfast??

HaHa, we dreamed of a force as liberal as the RUC. Birmingham if you must know. If you’re not aware of their wonderful record, then Google for the West Midlands Serious Crimes Squad, The Bridgewater 4 or the Birmingham 6. If you’re labouring under the illusion that it was just “a few bad apples” let me assure you that the whole orchard was rotten. Aged 15, I was dragged out of a disco by the local beat bobby and a burly colleague who held me against a wall and told me that they knew who I was and that they knew I was a communist, FFS.

After this sort of stuff, why should I have any reason to have anything but suspicion and mistrust of the police. My first thoughts on reading that report were that I doubt if any charges are ever brought against the guy for assaulting a PO.

Imagine if the guy in the footage was black. There’d have been big trouble, whole communities would be rampaging the streets baying for blood. Innocent people would be murdered in “revenge” attacks and **** “community” spokesmen would be telling us their community is not to blame, blah blah blah.

Yeah, cos that happens every time a copper assaults a black person.
Well thought out point, I look forward to further contributions.

If you do what they say, immediately and respectfully, making no sudden movements, then you have nothing to fear.

Apart from the guy they shot while he was turning round to see who was shouting
Or the bloke with the table leg or the guy with the umbrella or the guy with the airgun[airgun 😯 for gods sake [and not a very powerful one at that]
Or best of all ,the chap they shot while he was attempting to rob a P/Office,the cops got wind of it and ‘staked out’ inside the office including behind the counter
several officers got up in court saying the same thing,they identified themselves as armed police several times and only after many warnings shot him.
One of the witnesses,a little old lady in for her pension who witnessed everything said,as the coloured robber came into the office,the police jumped,said and i quote-*Night Night sooty*,and promptly shot him

Maybe the guy was a scumbag,but to shoot him out of hand without so much as a warning ,is completely criminal behaviour.
.
.
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Lights touchpaper…backs away slowly 😀

He was more than likely cautioned and arrested for a public order offence, which then escalated when he was non compliant. These incedents tend to escalate very quickly. Lots of adrenalin on both sides.

I would say that what happened was disproportianate. I would understand a bit more if he was carrying an offensive weapon or suspected of violent crime, a danger to the public that would warrent such a reaction. Reality is he was probably just drunk and being stupid and the situation escalated.

Provocation doesn’t seem to apply to the police. Athough we will never find out what actually happened. We are all assuming based on our own personal outlooks.

Provocation doesn’t apply to the police!? It is not a defence for anything except murder.

Not in a legal sense, I’m talking generally. You’ve missed my point. Trying to say that often (I’ve seen it happen) the police will provoke and situations escalate.

With ya … oooohhhh it’s boiling up in here now … I’m sitting and watching … gets good!

I thought the same when that dude died a few months back during the London riots, but luckily he was white. I really really hope this never happens but I think it probably will.

Why would black people have a riot if a black man was treated the same way? Is it down to the continuous harassment they have had from the Police over the years?

Perception.

Not going to comment on the Video as I don’t know what the circumstances are leading up to it, but the reaction to it tells a story that more and more people now believe the Police are using excessive force more and more often and incidents like the Protests in London is not helping the cause.

The Police are now having to deal with an increasingly “everyday” violent society, the trouble with that is sometimes it desensitizes the Police when it comes to dealing with the Public as a whole.

In other words that yes some Police are becoming more aggressive, but its also incidents like the above that is causing the Public to perceive that it is now par for the course.

Jackson – its usually the other way round – the police don’t want to be bothered with arresting drunken idiots who might not even face a magistrate. However many times the cops say “you’re drunk, you’re acting like an idiot – now go home” some drunks just want to pick a fight with them.

Most of us have been drunk and acted like an idiot at times – some even warned off by cops. Most of us however don’t get arrested because when the cop says – “go away” we do.

Maybe we are lucky with our edinburgh cops but I can say hand on heart that I have never seen them acting out of order. Indeed I have seen them put up with all sorts of shite before they actually arrest a drunken idiot.

the police will provoke and situations escalate

This is when it is so important to remember that they have weapons, and they despise you. The only thing standing between you and serious harm is the paperwork they will have to do after hurting you.

Back away, keep your hands visible at all times. Avoid making eye contact. Avoid making sudden movements. Speak calmly and quietly only if spoken to. Call them “sir”. Under no circumstances criticise them or suggest that they should have better things to do.

😀

I have a mate in the polis, the reason he joined is because he “loves beating up scumbags” Seriously, he does.

Anyhow, I once thought about being in the polis, it’s a tough job for sure, the hours when you join are not good for family life but I thought a stint in the drug squad would be good.

Dealing with drunks is a right pain, the fact they wear the uniform just makes matters worse – they have a tough job for sure.

Same as any career, there are good guys and some right bung holes. But if we didn’t have them the consequenses would be horrible…

Did they use exsessive force? I don’t know? Maybe a little but if I had just seen my mate beaten up I’d be wading in….

Call them “sir”.

Call them Sir? Don’t be ridiculous.

It all becomes a little bit Freudian when people talk about the police. Transference, projection, all police officers are fascist/racist/thuggish/sociopathic/inhuman blah blah blah… They must be, because I was dragged out of a disco when I was 15 and they all wear the same uniform. This isn’t Life on Mars anymore! Perhaps things have changed a little and the media only ever focus on events they deem newsworthy. Perhaps (shock horror) it’s in the media interest to encourage negative stories about the police and buy in to peoples blinkered and prejudiced opinions. Of course there are incidents when police officers overstep the mark. It’s human nature, and people are fallible. Some people are so farking blinkered it’s untrue.

BigDummy PLEASE tell me you are taking the pi**!!! No wonder ….