Viewing 37 posts - 1 through 37 (of 37 total)
  • more sad news
  • ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Have you linked to the wrong news story ? What’s the sad news ?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Kids do well at school if their parents pay I’m guessing? Bemoaning the state of the education system?

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    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Bemoaning state education yes. Also that its written as a good news story. Suprised that boys aopear to under perform so much in the public sector too.

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    Faintly confused. You can pay for smaller class sizes at a school that selects on ability, and the children in general do better than average. What’s new?

    A far better thing to have a whinge about are NHS dentists, who charge £18 for a two minute prod inside your mouth and then insist you visit the hygienist at £45/pop. Do the NHS still refuse to provide white fillings, a truly marvellous way of highlighting who can afford to pay for private dentistry.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Faintly confused Flaperon, whats your point?

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Ernie +1

    Well done to those who did so well!

    How does Westminster achieved those results – its not just money (eek, deja vue here!!!!)?

    Why does the independent sector increasingly choose IGCSE rather than GCSE (no they are not easier!)?

    What are the lessons to be learned and applied nationally (no Gove hasn’t got that yet!)

    We do our kids a disservice if we react to this news in such a negative fashion. That is a terrible message to send them. Education is something that we are globally competitive in but we place too many obstacles and hide behind too many excuses when it comes to ensuring this success is spread widely enough at home, That is the sad news not the fact that some students have done well.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Bemoaning state education yes.

    Why not link to an article which discusses state education then ? As far as I can see that article doesn’t make any comment concerning state education. And therefore really doesn’t help anyone to decide whether they should be happy or sad about it.

    toys19
    Free Member

    well AA is a teacher, I think in a private school..

    Either way it sucks that taxpayers money in some way is not being spent as effectively as rich peoples money.
    It kind of raises a few things?

    1) Is it the teachers in the state sectors fault? I personally do not think so. My wife taught in both sectors and thinks she saw the best teaching in v deprived state schools, and the laziest in private schools. (also I think AA teaches in a private school and I would not want him any where near my kids, 😆 but I’ll bet he/his school gets good results)
    2) Is it down to resources? I don’t think so either, my kids are at a brilliant local private school that is in crummy buildings and has crap resources, and most of the other private schools I’ve seen in Devon do not have good resources.
    3) Is it due to teacher pupil ratio? I think possibly, more attention per child does appear to pay dividends in my anecdotal experience.
    4) Is there any parental influence? Again possibly, our kids have peers who’s parents all care passionately about their edumacation, and tend to support the kids and school/teachers. In our school there are many, like us, who value the kids education over holidays and new cars and prioritise our spending and personal efforts accordingly. I’m convinced that in lots of state schools there are parents who are disenfranchised from the “system” and do not deal well with authority figures, this gets passed on.
    5) I reckon there is also an influence from govt meddling, the private school teachers have more freedom to teach the way they see fit, and do not have to spend as much time dealing with bullshit and paperwork. (Private school teachers are also not as well paid as state teachers, it is basically an easier job)

    so what to do?
    I recommend:
    Spend less on crappy initiatives, computers and kit. Spend more on teachers so we can lower pupil teacher ratio. Educate parents as to how important school is and try to bring their attitude in congruence with the educators..

    Of course, I actually know eff all about it, but this is STW where any asshole can have an opinion..

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    easy solution would be to re-open mines and sed the thick kids down there and get them out of the averages, keep class sizes down too.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Wow ernie are you that daft?
    Teamhurt more, please expand in what the public sector do so well that doesnt involve money? I agree that people doing well isnt sad news but its the the ones not doing well that concern me.

    allthepies
    Free Member

    I think in a private school..

    I very much doubt it 😆

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    well AA is a teacher, I think in a private school..

    wash your mouth out, I wouldnt consider the private sector!

    toys19
    Free Member

    Ha ha, I’m convinced a friend of mine works with a diminutive belligerent welshman in a private school in the south with a scarlet pimpernel complex… Maybe it isn’t you.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Wow ernie are you that daft?

    Maybe. Blame my state eduction but I can’t see how your article proves that we should be “sad” about state education.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Toys would teacher pupil ratio not be related to resources? Staffing is the biggest expense in schools. Broadly speaking I agree with your points though.
    Its very sad imo that lack of money for kids can have such a massive impact on kids lives.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Ever consider your down to earth attitude and rounded morals could benefit the privileged kids and help them become more rounded individuals? (and I hear the money isn’t bad)

    toys19
    Free Member

    ernie, did you read what I said? Does it not bother you that the power of govmnt is trumped by the private sector? Would you not think that the govt should be able to do a better job?

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    So anyway anagallis_arvensis, as a teacher tell us what’s so bad about state education and why we should be sad about it.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Would you not think that the govt should be able to do a better job?

    With less money and less people ? No, not necessarily.

    Besides, your article doesn’t mention that state education preforms less well, if that’s the point you are trying to make. Maybe find an article which shows that ?

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    FWIW, the key message that my kids have always been given by school is that there is only one key variable that determines overall success in exams (especially A levels etc) – how hard they work. Other things help/detract but they are the noise not the key drivers. Of course, fee paying parents don’t like that message as some equate paying with guaranteed success. It doesn’t. It helps or can do, of course, but that is not the key factor. Equally not having access to private education should not be equated with not doing well. That is absurd.

    The kids I know who did well (including my son) worked their butts off. That included Xmas and Easter holidays for GCSEs. They were often surrounded by peers who had the same motivation. They also had friends who had the same benefits but didn’t work and the results (or lack of them) spoke for themselves. My kids worked significantly harder and far more consistently than I ever did as a child – and their results were much better that I ever achieved. That should not be taken away from them.

    Whether its success in exams, sport, music whatever – the most important message is utlimately what you get out is determined mostly by what you put in.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Ever consider your down to earth attitude and rounded morals could benefit the privileged kids and help them become more rounded individuals? (and I hear the money isn’t bad)

    I’d murder someone! 🙂

    Ernie whats good about state education results not being even close to being comparable with the public sector?

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    AA, I agree that we should all be concerned about those who do not do well. But be honest, that is not how the thread title comes across is it? Hence Ernie and my reactions.

    toys19
    Free Member

    Toys would teacher pupil ratio not be related to resources? Staffing is the biggest expense in schools.

    Well yeah, in terms of finance, but I think that is why I separated them. The private schools I have seen prioritise their spending on staff first. It really pees me off that the state spends money on fancy new initiatives when it should be spending on teachers. 1000 ipads are not as good as a single teacher.
    In fact it is wider than this, crime and health and business would all be improved if we spent more on the foundations, ie the kids, ie education..

    Broadly speaking I agree with your points though.

    I’ve called 999, they will be there soon, try to stay calm.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    I am more worried that Gove misinterprets what the independent sector does well and hence makes sometimes well intentioned but utlimately poorly thought through initiatives that are then poorly executed. That is a crying shame.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Whether its success in exams, sport, music whatever – the most important message is utlimately what you get out is determined mostly by what you put in.

    what proportion of olympians were ex public sector educated. Your kids worked hard and did sell. Well done them but their results wouldnt have been as good for the same level of effort in state education. That is very sad.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Ernie whats good about state education results not being even close to being comparable with the public sector?

    How about posting a link to an article which actually shows that, instead of one which doesn’t even mention state education.

    And you called me daft ?

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Well yeah, in terms of finance, but I think that is why I separated them. The private schools I have seen prioritise their spending on staff first. It really pees me off that the state spends money on fancy new initiatives when it should be spending on teachers. 1000 ipads are not as good as a single teacher.

    true but the vast majority is spent on replacing the rapid turnover of staff, many are lost to the private sector and many many more are simply lost to the profesdion.

    zokes
    Free Member

    And you called me daft ?

    Good to see he’s becoming more polite

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    How do you know that AA? (ie my son would not have done as well). That is actually quite insulting and IMO not befitting of a teacher (excuse me if that is also rude but i feel strongly about this!). My nieces and nephews were educated in the state sector and got straight A*/As as well. They also worked bloody hard.

    Anyway this has shades of the Olympic thread and the night of the long knives, so I am out before this goes wrong. Off to buy school uniform and shoes for #2!!!

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    How about posting a link to an article which actually shows that, instead of one which doesn’t even mention state education.

    i assumed a certain level of general knowledge, sorry

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Good to see he’s becoming more polite

    your confusing my politness with a level of respect.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Perhaps you could educate us….

    toys19
    Free Member

    true but the vast majority is spent on replacing the rapid turnover of staff, many are lost to the private sector and many many more are simply lost to the profesdion.

    Yer I see, but in my fantasy we make teaching a better job by reducing pupil teacher ratio, sorting out unruly parents, and getting rid of bullshit/paperwork, then the teachers would not leave..

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Well simply maths would suggest if one sector gets mostly a’s and lots of b,c, d’s etc are got it must be the others getting them.

    zokes
    Free Member

    your confusing my politness with a level of respect.

    That’ll be state education for you. The word you were looking for is “you’re”. 🙄

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    is you’re a word or two words?

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