dogmatix – Member
As it is I don’t want my kids being caught up in it

Neither do I.

dogmatix – Member

…As it is I don’t want my kids being caught up in it.

a valid concern no doubt.

how does prohibition protect them?

seosamh77 – Member
Re the medical argument. I support it’s legalization for those purposes. But it’s not my argument at all, so I don’t use it to back up my case, I don’t think I need to, my case is strong enough.

Saying that though, if it was legalized for medical use. My trapped nerve pain would suddenly get a lot worse! 😆

I don’t think I need to, my case is strong enough.

that’s very true

But as a person that is myself personally susceptible to the negative effects of cannabis, I would very much like to see it legalised, and if not regulated and distributed by licensed retailers, then I would at the very least like to be able to grow a strain at home, with the correct ratio of CBD to THC to suit my personal needs..
And we should all have the right to be able purchase or be prescribed any of the medicinal products derived from cannabis that are available either here or abroad

That is why I have included the two videos here to support my argument, as they are the sort of thing that could be a very valuable and powerful tool in educating the reactionary prohibitionists about the dangers of keeping the current system

If I wanted to I could go and buy some weed right now this afternoon, as could anyone else over the age of about 10 years old in the UK… But I know that it would make me very ill indeed

Yip, that is ultimately what it all boils down to, yunki, choice. The government as it currently stands forces us into a very narrow market. Which is wrong on so many levels.

I could not agree more my friend

It practically is legal in the UK now. I’m always walking or cycling past people smoking it in the street etc (and car drivers too, although I generally report them as driving when high really isn’t very clever).

I’d support legalizing it (never smoked)- if that’s your thing: it’s your body and people seem to be far more reasonable when a bit stoned when compared to people who are excessively “refreshed”.

However, I’d also support the death sentence without trial or appeal for driving under the “influence”, so it’s a mixed bag over here.

It does really stink tho.

😀

A question for somebody who knows about these things –

How come weed is seen as less of a health risk than tobacco? You’re still drawing the smoke into your lungs. Is the smoke somehow more benign than tobacco smoke?

You smoke less of it in comparison to tobacco. It’s still smoke though, so don’t believe it causes no damage. It definitely causes lung irritation and can cause bad coughs. But there are also various less harmful ways to consume it. Edibles are good. I’ve not successfully put it in my e-cig as yet though, but I’ve only tried the once. I’ll suss that eventually.

I’d guess there are differences in the chemical make up too when it’s burned, but I’m not a Chemist, so I couldn’t answer that with any authority. If someone knows, please, chip in.

You also have to be aware that’s it’s difficult to quantify, as by far the most popular way to consume it, in Europe, is in combination with tobacco.

‘The cannabis now is lethal’

yes and no.

the yes is that i agree the pushers have progressively designed stronger and stronger strains and no doubt it can lead to mental problems in some people, the very least total paranoia everytime you smoke which with habitual toking this then is a norm for the user.

the no, and this is why i think legalisation is a good call, is that with regulation people can learn what they are taking. for instance if indica strains are better suited then the individual can choose that over sativa.

like wine basically, shiraz, when i drank, always gave me a stellar hangover even from just a glass or two so i knew to avoid it.

‘It’s still smoke though’

google ‘smoke bubble’ for a better alternative.

I’ve not successfully put it in my e-cig as yet though, but I’ve only tried the once. I’ll suss that eventually.

Google weed vaporiser. Lots of results and options.

Was at a party and one girl had one. Was about the size of a large phone, but about three times as thick.

When drawing on it you couldn’t taste much. A bit odd add there is no harsh taste, heat or anything. But when you exhale you get a nice tingly weed taste and very little smoke. The trick is not to inhale/draw on the thing too strongly as it packs a punch. One of the guys there turned quite green and needed a lie down.
Only problem with the vape thing is that it kind of spoils the social aspect of rolling and sharing a joint. Oh,and the cost… It was about 350€…! Not the sort of thing you can just throw when the Pozilei show up….

(#fourmonthsclean)

How come weed is seen as less of a health risk than tobacco?

lots of reasons, but it boils down to the difference between a rollie and a regular ciggie. more chemicals, more baccy in a regular ciggie and people smoke them in a different way.

Would have thought it a total non-starter just on the smoking aspect – public health policy has been one way traffic on smoking for years. I appreciate you can vape it, or garnish a pizza with it, but realistically the majority of people are smoking weed with tobacco. So legalising something that is at best on par with a known gp 1 carcinogen and public health pariah sounds like a bong dream. At least with MDMA or something you can legit say it’s harmless and it’s just moral panic preventing a proper regulation.

I say would have thought, because the California judgement is massive, no question.

Alpine, aye, I know what a vaporiser is, that’s a dry one. It’s possible to fit exit liquid though and stuck it in it. Much more subtle and more like smoking a joint. Which is how I usually do.

It’s pretty hard to research the risks of smoking cannabis, it’a either hardless / good for you or as deadly as playing Russian roulette with on one empty chamber depending on which side of the fence the source sits on.

Things to consider though:

It’s not addictive, not in the same way as tabacco anyway. You won’t automatically start smoking 20 in the normal course of your day.

You don’t have to smoke it, there’s a multitude of ways to take it.

You smoke less material.

Again legalisation makes it easier to take it more safely.

driving home this eve, I could smell weed really strong coming fro the car in front of me, you could actually see the car was filled with smoke as it was being driven along

how will legalising weed help?

by taking the distribution out of the hands of violent criminals

Ask any teenager if it’s easier to buy booze or drugs. The answer is a pretty strong argument for legalisation on it own.

cozz – Member
driving home this eve, I could smell weed really strong coming fro the car in front of me, you could actually see the car was filled with smoke as it was being driven along

how will legalising weed help?

Help with idiots driving while stoned? It won’t. On the other hand whether it is legal or illegal seems to be irrelevant to that particular problem, as you’ve illustrated.

Or at least make medical research a non taboo subject, it is getting better but its such a scientifically interesting plant that has such a stigma attached that people are seen as unconventional if they want to study it.

There’s also a bit of a conspiracy theory that large pharmaceutical companies actively suppress research as they wouldn’t be able to charge much compared to some drugs, as it’s so easily produced, no profit = no interest. They might even loose money if a less profitable product outperforms a very expensive one.

Recently cycled through Colorado whilst doing the GDMBR, and was welcomed at the first place I stayed with a joint and can of beer 8)

My take on it from speaking to the locals is that there was an increase in usage by people moving to the state because of it. However this has stabilised. All the users I spoke to said that the quality and strength variety of the drug available has improved with legalisation massively. Abuse amongst young people hasnt increased.

Colorado got something like $150m in tax revenue from Cannabis sales tax, but this is only c. 1% of overall revenue, including income tax. It is however significant and $40m was spent on schools across the state with the remainder being used by state government for a variety of things including public awareness and education on drugs.

This revenue is the reason why neighbouring states are looking on with envy. Colorado has a population of 5 million, California a population of 40 million so revenues will be much higher.

As a counter to the hippy love-in on this, have a read of this interesting article on the impact this has had on the trade in heroin (and the leap in the heroin overdose death toll).

Esquire on El Chapo and the the Mexican drugs trade

Sobering stuff.

Andy – Member

Colorado got something like $150m in tax revenue from Cannabis sales

There’s a study that reckons there could be up to a billion pounds in tax if legalised in the uk. I reckon that’s probably a consrvative estimate, given alcohol tax is about 10 billion.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cannabis-legalisation-marijuana-uk-1bn-a-year-in-taxes-a6918161.html

Which shows you the amount going straight in the the black market is immense. Can’t for the life me understand why that is acceptable.

As a counter to the hippy love-in on this, have a read of this interesting article on the impact this has had on the trade in heroin (and the leap in the heroin overdose death toll).

Esquire on El Chapo and the the Mexican drugs trade

Sobering stuff.

Interesting article but i think the authour is letting his own personal involvement cloud his judgement, although he firmly hits the nail on the head with regards to the heroin epidemic in the US and that’s the massive rise of people addicted to prescription opiates who then get their prescription stopped. The drop in imported cannabis i doubt is related, imported “brick weed” as it’s known is considered poor compared to home grown stuff, the same has happened in this country, when i was young nearly all the cannabis available was imported hashish, now it’s quite difficult to get hold of but home grown herbal cannabis is easy to get, we’ve not suffered a heroin epidemic, and that’s because GP’s in this country don’t dish out opiate painkillers like smarties.

I agree with Seosamh77’s logic and call for legalisation. I’m not so sure the outcome will be positive though apart from the increased tax revenue. A couple of reservations:

The criminal elements will swap substances and US GPs dishing out opiates isn’t the only reason for the heroin boom. A few years down the line I expect to see the gangs that used to deal cannabis dealing something else which is probably more harmful. It was alreday the trend before legalising cannabis, I expect it to continue.

Personal experience tells me that whether people are drunks, heavy cannabis users, heroin addicts, cocaine users, XTC users, heavy smokers… or even life-long users of happy pills from their GP, they’re a whole lot harder to live/deal with than people who aren’t under the influence.

add to the fact, it was prohibition that created the mexican cartels in the first place.

There’s an easy solution to the problem. Kill all their markets stone dead. The evidence is there, their cannabis market ended over night.

I would personally, support legalisation of all drugs. Not that I’d campaign for it mind, but by allowing the black market to run these trades, imo, that makes governments complicit.

Guess it’s just a case of will people ever wake up to that reality.

Edukator, I don’t want paint things as all rosey, and freely admit the is a negative side to drugs. Prohibition makes things much much worse though.

I think, in this country, though you do have a different situation from america, as mentioned above, cannabis is produced here, it’s not imported so much anymore. So if you killed the black market, I doubt you’d get flooded with other drugs, not like there is opium fields in the uk, and I’d doubt all the houses getting used for cannabis farms would get turn into something else. cannabis is easy to grow, other drugs are much more involved to actually make.

A few years down the line I expect to see the gangs that used to deal cannabis dealing something else which is probably more harmful

Agreed, if we were to end the prohibition of all drugs these same people would end up dealing in dodgy cars or knocked off tech, criminals aren’t interested in why things are illegal, just the opportunity to make money.

Bazz – Member
A few years down the line I expect to see the gangs that used to deal cannabis dealing something else which is probably more harmful
Agreed, if we were to end the prohibition of all drugs these same people would end up dealing in dodgy cars or knocked off tech, criminals aren’t interested in why things are illegal, just the opportunity to make money.

So, legalisation reduces their market to punting dodgy dvds. I can live with that.

Dodgy DVDs or Coke, MD, Kéta, Rabla, LSD… . France is on the European mainland which means the historic supply routes are still going strong. Heroin use is increasing as the price drops and the supply chain develops. Pills at techno parties are so cheap that a kid can spend the weekend high on just pocket money

Having cannabis as a relatively harmless drug for kids to use with all the “thrills” of doing something illegal isn’t such a bad thing. When you want something legalised think of the poor parents trying to guide their kids through the minefield.

Junior (Techno DJ, jazz and rock guitarist, socialite) has left home now. There were plenty of substances circulating when I was his age but the ease with which a vast range of stuff can be bought now does not bode well for the future mental and physical health of the population. I can only hope Junior says “no” to some of the stuff on the list.

In conclusion, cannabis whether legal or illegal isn’t a major problem for me or most of the people I know. So legalise it, but don’t expect any positive benefits beyond tax revenue as you’ll create as many probems as you solve.

I expect no particular change tbh, barring the threat of criminalization being lifted, poor products off the market, the black market significantly reduced.

The harm of drugs, imo will probably be lessoned slightly due to poor products disappearing, but otherwise all the problems with drugs in a personal sense will remain.

I don’t see legalisation causing any particular increase in usage even if it was just cannabis that was legalised. The import market for other drugs is already saturated imo. I believe leaving that in the hands of criminals is a crime in itself and leaves kids more at risk.

isnt the tax valued at around £350 million per week

closer to 20m.

Saturated at the current price maybe. Junior has already pointed out to me that getting high is cheaper than getting drunk, in a country where alcohol is cheap.

The economist in me could draw you pages full of graphs and ramble on about marginal propensities. I won’t, make something people want to do cheap and legal, and they will consume more of it.

I see legalisation resulting in a significant increase in consumption among adults because that’s what’s happened in Colorado (but not kids apparently even if there are more problems with marijuana use in schools – and not forgetting it’s still illegal for kids so they still feel they have to lie about it). I see cannabis related traffic accidents and hospital visits increasing because they have in Colorado (whatever the pro Mary Jane people say).

We don’t have the same vision of what will happen but I’m still happy for people to light up legally, get drunk legally, smoke legally, jump off high places – with the usual proviso that they don’t drive after, blow the smoke in my face or jump off places where there are others below them.

Ever considered moving to Spain?

Edukator – Reformed Troll
I see legalisation resulting in a significant increase in consumption among adults because that’s what’s happened in Colorado.

Relying on data from the national drug use survey, Colorado reported that nearly a third of Coloradans aged 18-25 in 2014 had used pot in the last 30 days, a rise of about 5% from the year before recreational pot was legalized.

The survey showed a similar spike in adults over 26. Past 30-day marijuana use went from 7.6% in 2012 to 12.4% in 2014.

For the sake of the discussion, I didn’t know that. i wonder if it’s an actual increase, or just a cause of normalisation of the drug making it more socially acceptable to admit it? Dunno, could be that people trust the supply more have more choice of milder strains etc and it is an actual increase, could be that people are happier to use it, knowing they aren’t feeding the black market.. I’ll let people make up their own mind about it.

Regarding driving and incidents like that, I’d be happy for there to be fairly draconian penalties for driving while stoned.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/21/uk-should-legalise-cannabis-adam-smith-institute-report

Adam Smith institute calling for legalization too. It’s only a matter of time.