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Moral friend question

44 posts & 25 voices | Started 1 year ago by bigyinn | Latest reply from bigyinn

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bigyinn - Member

I have a mate i've known for 20 years odd. He's in Edinburgh, im on the Isle of Wight. We meet up a couple of times a year in London, go for a few beers etc etc.
Bit of background.
Wehn i first knew him he was a graduated student trying to find a job, so pretty skint. Then he got a job in a BIG well known global news agency in London on about £35kpa. This is great until he has a nervous breakdown after about a year, so he goes back to Edinburgh and there's he's been ever since.
He's pretty ruined mentally and looks a bit rough, but he's a friend and I stick by him. His medication messes him up quite a bit and although he's still a friend, he's not the same by any stretch of the imgination. He's hard work and can be a bit slow / quiet.

But in the last 6 months, something has changed, he's been really hard to even get hold of, doesnt respond to any messsages, when he does respond, theres no mention that i've been concerned about him.

Anyway we finally managed to meet up in London a couple of weeks ago, even then he's late and wasn't answering his mobile. He was quite unsettled, talking to people as if they were mutual friends from the past, shouting out random abuse to people, making obviously racist comments, giving an Asian glass collector the finger and talking in a false mancunian accent.

I obviously felt VERY awkward and quite on edge, after about 3 hours of this I decided enough was enough, so whilst waiting for a tube train with him I wandered off and got one going the opposite way.

I do feel guilty for just buggering off and abandoning him, but I just didnt want to end up in a situation where i had to physically defend him or myself from someone who took exception to his comments. I know im in the wrong for just dumping him, but it would have led to a confrontation with him.

My main concern is that its pretty obvious he needs professional help, but what can I do? Im not convinced he would actually listen to me. If we lived nearer perhaps I could do something. Most of his friends are now ex-friends because he's managed to alienate or upset them over the years.
Or do I just walk away and draw a line under this friendship, or do I try and communicate with him to say I have concerns over his wellbeing?

I really dont know what to do here.

Posted 1 year ago #
Oscillate Wildly - Member

i think walking away and leaving him cofirms the friendship is over harsh to say the least, especially if he is a bit mental in a place like London!

Posted 1 year ago #
bigyinn - Member

The odd thing is he hasnt been in touch to ask me why.

Posted 1 year ago #
bigyinn - Member

Oh and I'd had about 4 pints of beer when i left him.

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

not an easy one, I guess I'd hope to make contact to explain/express concern, if not to him then to his parents, given he may well not be interested.

Sounds like he may well end up sectioned, hopefully before he gets into trouble.

Posted 1 year ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

It was a tough call you had to make. No use asking "us" if it was the right decision. You have to stand back and take a look at the whole relationship and decide for yourself if you did the right thing or not.

Most of the time, if I find myself asking "Did I do the right thing?", I already have a fair idea of whether I did or not, but it's just a bit human to seek the affirmation of others.

There comes a time in some relationships when it feels like swimming in treacle and you just have to walk away from them, be that figuratively or literally, as in your case. It seems harsh, and in hindsight, you're probably feeling guilty about it; in the same way that ending any relationship will bring on feelings of guilt in the person that wanted to end it.

I would say the best you can do is to write a letter or email to him explaining what happened and that you feel he should seek help but until he does seek professional help, you cannot continue to tolerate the kind of behaviour he was displaying. Explain that you will always be his friend and love him, but that there is nothing more that you can do.

I don't envy you that relationship...I suspect you know the answers to the questions you're asking. We almost always do.

Posted 1 year ago #
hels - Member

Sounds like heading for some kind of psychosis.

Communicating with him unlikely to help, get in touch with his friends, family, whoever looks after him, this is probably not isolated incident, but just to reassure yourself that he is getting help.

I have been in similar situation there is not much you can do in all honesty, needs medical help.

Posted 1 year ago #
bigyinn - Member

dd, that pretty much sums it up.
I wanted to wait a bit before e-mailing him to let things cool down a bit, but I'd always intended to explain myself.

Parents aren't likely to be a lot of help, his mum's pretty old and his dad died a lond time ago, so they're unlikely to be able to help. I dont have contact with anyone else up there that may be able to help or talk to him.

If he can get help then I have some hope for him, otherwise he's gonna slip through the cracks so to speak.

Posted 1 year ago #
khani - Member

Do you have his address? Can't you ring round his local doctors surgeries or social services and tell them your concerns over his behaviour, he must be registered someware to get medication, not perfect but better than nothing

Posted 1 year ago #
bigyinn - Member

He is registered somewhere, as he is on medication. I wonder if he's actually taking it though?

Posted 1 year ago #
docrobster - Member

If you wanted to get hold of someone in his local community mental health team it shouldn't be hard. They tend to be locality based so if you know his address you could find out:
seems edinburgh is divided into north and south for CMHTs
They are supposed to be responsive and proactive so if he is on the books and you contact them voicing your concerns hopefully someone will help

EDIT:
this looks useful

Posted 1 year ago #
project - Member

So you live at opposite ends of the country, meet up a couple of times a year etc etc, then you wonder why he doesnt return your calls etc.

Reason he is trying to break away from you nannying him, tough but thats how it reads.

You may well ahve his best wishes at heart but he may think youre trying to get a bit to close.

Posted 1 year ago #
bigyinn - Member

No project, that's not how it is. How on earth did you reach that conclusion? Where have I been nannying him FFS?

Posted 1 year ago #
surfer - Member

So you live at opposite ends of the country, meet up a couple of times a year etc etc, then you wonder why he doesnt return your calls etc.

Best stop calling my mates in Aus then, oh and the States, and Spain. Oh and whilst I am at it I will stop calling my family that live in London. Is it OK if I have mates within a 25 mile radius?

Given that he lives in London, is an adult and although he sounds unstable made it to a rendevous point to meet you for a beer. I wouldnt worry about leaving him at the station, it may have been a good move.

Despite what Project say's we could all do with more friends like you.

Posted 1 year ago #
bigyinn - Member

That's surfer, thought I'd missed something from projects posting, but clearly he didn't understand my post. I think I may have a chat with someone from his mental health team to express my concerns over his well being. I'm wary of interfering too much, but I can't sit by a leave him to self destruct.

Posted 1 year ago #
philconsequence - Member

On my phone so not sure on the links for finding the right cmht but if you call the right cmht and ask to speak to the person on duty then explain your concerns, they should find whoever is involved with his care and hopefully take some action from there, make a concise list or abnormal behaviours and specific worrying things he said to make sure you don't forget anything. Hope this helps

Posted 1 year ago #
bigyinn - Member

philconsequence, yes very much so, thanks!

Posted 1 year ago #
Hairychested - Member

I hope I wouldn't give up on a mate like him were I in your shoes.
Have you spoken to your local mental health specialists as they might be in a position to help or suggest something useful? It also might be worth putting your thoughts in writing, so they'll have an exact record of your concerns rather than a shorthand note made over the phonecall.
Some local authorities offer help and advice for such troubled people but I am unsure how good or bad it is.

Posted 1 year ago #
ady - Member

Hi having suffered a mental illness and recovered with the help of specialists .
A good mate was allways there to listen and talk to and made a huge impact on my recovery ,so you are doing the right thing .
Alot of people are ashamed to have a metal illness and never seek help which is a huge shame because the help in most cases does work .

Posted 1 year ago #
mikertroid - Member

Sounds like your friend needs your help, not a good ignoring.

Posted 1 year ago #
Drac - Moderator

See Phils adive ^ that's the one to follow it's what he's paid to do.

People like Phil have huge amounts patience where many others fall down, my Bro does the same job and he loves it. Thinks the clients are great including the ones he calls "true Psychos" and has huge amount of time to get them the right help.

Posted 1 year ago #
ton - Member

just glad your not my mate...............

**** off and leaving him was a shyte thing to do.

Posted 1 year ago #
philconsequence - Member

THe notes from the phonecall should be pretty good but no harm in sending a letter too as its a good back up and you can copy it to your friend with a covering note saying that you didn't want to hide anything from him and its something you felt you had to do as your worried about him and understand there might be people closer and able to help.

Good luck dude

Posted 1 year ago #
Spongebob - Member

I think he's gone past the "wits end" stage and hence his strange unseemly behaviour.

I can understand why you walked away that night. It was supposed to be a catch up with an old mate, not three hours of embarrassment!

Still, now your judgement is no longer clouded by alcohol, your natural good nature has come to the fore.

I would definitely contact him and ideally meet up. You need to tell him how you have noticed a change in him since you last met and how concerned you are. You need to give him the opportunity to offload. Let him talk. If he doesn't want to, don't force it, but tell him you care what happens to him and will help if he'll let you.

People who are depressed do push their friends away. I believe they do this because they have no self-confidence and are uncertain about the strength of the relationships they have formed with these friends. Some so called friends can be really rather shallow - fair weather friends. I think your mate wants to test the friends he knows to find out who'll really standby him. The trouble is that this pattern of behaviour is chronic and bit by bit, those non-fairweather friends get sick of it. The rejection just reaffirms his fears and so the cycle it continues until there is nobody left. Very sad!

The other thing is that mental health issues are still very taboo here. If you broke you leg, you could expect plenty of wellwishers at your bedside. If you were admitted to hosptital for a mental breakdown, nobody but your nearest and dearest would show up. People are scared when someone is mentally unwell, but in most cases, there is nothing to fear and the patient will benefit from people treating them just like anyone else. I think attitudes are gradually changing for the better however. Many significant people including Sir Winston Churchill suffered from depression, so this illness is not debilitating, it's just one aspect of an individual's personaility. It just needs self-management and for others to accept it as no big deal.

Being on medication should be helping him with his moods, but not always. When a patient first starts a new drug, or has the dose changed, the effects can be worse than if he/she is on no drugs at all. Similarly, several missed doses can present a problem.

Or, it might be that he has drifted into taking illegal drugs, who knows.

Only you can judge what is going on as none of us here have met the guy.

What I do know is that if your mate suddenly died, you sound as if you are the sort of person who would have a lifelong regret that you hadn't done all you could for him.

He sounds very withdrawn and at high risk. Not only that, the public could be at risk too. In light of this, I think discretely contacting his mental health unit is also the right thing to do.

I wish you good luck and I hope your mate gets better!

Posted 1 year ago #
bikewhisperer - Member

I've been there. In his state, not yours.

If you're going to intervene then let him know. It'll be a difficult conversation but you'll have to tell him that you've called CMHT or his GP because you're worried about him. I really wouldn't anonymously tip off the health service as that gives the impression that someone is scared and notifying as opposed to being a concerned friend and notifying. It'll make a huge difference to him, but it'll get you involved.
If you meet up with him then you would probably be best not trying to address his issues unless he brings them up. He'll want some escape from the torment, so have a good time.
I've been on both ends of the situation and I would definitely say that concern rests with understanding that people should be treated equally regardless of anything else. He'll appreciate that.

Posted 1 year ago #
project - Member

bigyinn check your email.

Posted 1 year ago #
surfer - Member

just glad your not my mate...............

**** off and leaving him was a shyte thing to do.

Walking away at the platform of a tube station in the guys home town is hardly that! I've wandered off after coming out of pubs/clubs over the years from my mates its hardly the same as leaving them at the top of a hill with a broken ankle type stuff.

Posted 1 year ago #
bravohotel9er - Member

He was quite unsettled, talking to people as if they were mutual friends from the past, shouting out random abuse to people, making obviously racist comments

...and he's from Scotland, you say?

Shouldn't worry to be honest.

Posted 1 year ago #
bigyinn - Member

ton - Member

just glad your not my mate...............

**** off and leaving him was a shyte thing to do.

Ton you're hardly best placed on here to be making moral judgements.

Posted 1 year ago #
ton - Member

mate, not making a moral judgement............but your mate is obviously having a bad time, and you fecked off and left him.
i would have made sure my mate was ok......taxi home with him maybe??

Posted 1 year ago #
bigyinn - Member

If you'd read my post you'd know that I felt bad about doing it and i know that it was the wrong thing to do.
Anyway this isn't about me absolving my conscience, its about trying to get some help from a friend.
Oh and im fecked if im buying a taxi from Old St to Leith Links!

Posted 1 year ago #
allthepies - Member

Walking away at the platform of a tube station in the guys home town is hardly that!

The bloke (walked away from) lives in Edinburgh and the walking-away thing happened in London.

Posted 1 year ago #
surfer - Member

The bloke (walked away from) lives in Edinburgh and the walking-away thing happened in London.

Fair comment. I misread the OP. I thought he lived in London.

Posted 1 year ago #
Lawmanmx - Member

you mean to say the "medication" he was on from our fine medical profession has'nt worked and maybe made him worse??? well i never :-O (oooohhh smell that sarcasm) Lol
Anyways i hope he gets sorted (and gets free from alcohol too)

Posted 1 year ago #
HeathenWoods - Member

He was quite unsettled, talking to people as if they were mutual friends from the past, shouting out random abuse to people, making obviously racist comments, giving an Asian glass collector the finger and talking in a false mancunian accent.

You missed the bit in his bio when he was lead singer in The Smiths.

Posted 1 year ago #