Look at it the other way round… what about the moral dilemma your mate faces?

Does he recommend to you that you pay more for a bike, just so that he can pocket some profit, or does he tell you to go and buy online even if he ends up losing a sale.

If he is really a mate, and it really is such a good (like for like) deal, then he ought to be giving you the correct advice.

However, if you don’t even talk to him about it, then he has every right to be hacked off.

This being a mate thing is a two way deal aye?

Buy three online and get your mate to sell them full price in his LBS. Share the loot 😀

Give the LBS a chance to sell you the bike, at the price you have seen it on-line.

At this time of year in the bike industry things go quiet, and cashflow is key to the survival of a business, not profit as many assume – profitable businesses have gone into administration because of cashflow problems!

Speak to your mate, let him know the situation, they may actually be glad to clear that bike from their stock, and it might help pay that outstanding bill or the next payroll cycle 😉

jambalaya – how much do you think it costs a business owner to stock a shop?

How much do you think it costs a online retailer? Each business has to buy in the stock, hold it and mark it down. All the time its depreciation in value.

A shop has X footage, a online business can have unlimited ‘virtual’ square footage to fill.

Both employ staff.
Both pay rates and rent on a building.
Online retailers have to factor in postage in their prices.
Online retailers have to keep their prices very very keen.

Both have plus’s and minus’s however its far from being a computer in someones bedroom with the stock held in the spare room isn’t it.

All those displaced LBS employees?

[video]http://vimeo.com/23284279[/video]

righog – Member
Buy three online and get your mate to sell them full price in his LBS. Share the loot

absurd but pragmatic.

hora – Member
Both pay rates and rent on a building

FWIW, rent and rates on a crinkly tin shed (a.k.a. by Estate Agents as an industrial unit) will be a good deal less per square foot than on a decent retail premises.

I think the OP cuts to the heart of the dissonance between LBS and online. There almost is no ‘right’ answer.

FWIW, rent and rates on a crinkly tin shed (a.k.a. by Estate Agents as an industrial unit) will be a good deal less per square foot than on a decent retail premises.

They’ll also be a great deal bigger, be quite tempting to break in as its easier the more rural/out of the way you are maybe and require more lighting/heating and staff to pick/pack and handle/restock returns and deal with suppliers on a more frequent basis.

staff to pick/pack and handle/restock returns

Retail staff do all of that as well. And deal with the public directly. And, more often than not, have a mass of experience and knowledge, not to mention interest, in the product they’re selling. Rather than it just being another stock code on another box.

Retail staff do all of that as well. And deal with the public directly. And, more often than not, have a mass of experience and knowledge, not to mention interest, in the product they’re selling. Rather than it just being another stock code on another box.

They also have to handle emails, order chasing, phone calls etc etc.

Its not just the owner and two blokes and a Saturday lad in a shop is it.

People who expand into online/mail order are bike/business owners who take a gamble, put their house etc and loans on the line.

Before it was made public – no one knew really how big CRC and really Wiggle were/are even years ago. 5,000 orders a week I think for CRC. Of course they are the top of the pile but there are many more.

The likes of Planet X knock out hundreds of bikes a week don’t they.

They also have to handle emails, order chasing, phone calls etc etc.

Retail staff? Yes, they do.

Its not just the owner and two blokes and a Saturday lad in a shop is it.

In a good many it is, yes. Someone’s opened a new one not far from me recently, Anna Valley Cycles, with three full timers and a Saturday boy. (Not sure how they’re doing, though, as I’ve not popped in to have a look yet)

Stock pickers in a warehouse could be picking any stock item. Yes, there are myriad other support roles, but for the stock side of things, there’s no real knowledge or experience required beyond shifting things from one place to another.

Retail staff? Yes, they do.

Their role is mainly selling what they actually have (or best alternative in stock), online staff is mainly reactive, order fulfilling- therefore more staff for online with a far bigger stock investment/holding/risk.

If you claim it’s your mate but you are asking on here then it’s not your mate.

Their role is mainly selling what they actually have (or best alternative in stock)

Or, helping the customer to get what they want/need as far as is possible. Y’know, like my LBS getting in a spare part for one of my helmets, something they don’t stock, but did get for me.

Or, increasingly, dealing with asshats showrooming them.

Or, helping the customer to get what they want. Or, increasingly, dealing with asshats showrooming them.

Or shoe-horning them into buying something they have in stock even though they know it’ll be cheaper elsewhere and probably a better product elsewhere but they can’t say that even though they know it to be true. Instead they play the fuzzy, loveable LBS shop that is the hub of the community and the customer takes the ‘take what you are given sales service’.

Lets not forget, LBS staff work in sales. Its not a charitable service is it.

LBS staff work in sales. Its not a charitable service is it.

Indeed. Which is why those shoe-horning, as you mention above, tend not to do well. Those that give good service and advice are doing rather well these days.

There’s a lot more to bike retail than “Where’s the cheapest for a Reverb? Germany? France? Etc?” and STW customers you know!

TBH those that don’t give good advice still do really well. More often than not the customer doesn’t know better, goes for advice from someone they think will know more. Not realising the advice is based (biased) to what is in stock/the next best thing- its a dilemma. If you said ‘look this is good but Raceface has a much better one but we don’t have that in stock/we don’t deal with that distributor’ then you’d lose a sale/more business.

I’m not a detractor of bike shops. I’m just very very glad that the internet came along as it now means I can afford to mountain bike.

Yep, way better to find a way to make sure your friend makes zero money from the sale rather than a small amount.

Well, if I was a business I’d not expect friends to just give me money.

Having said that I just had to fork out £1500 for some new sails, the guy who owns the design rights for the class is a friend, asked for a discount, didn’t get one 🙁 No harm in asking, but did get the sail numbers applied for free which saved about £40 and will be far neater than doing it myself!

Out of interest how much profit would the LBS expect to make on a £600 bike?

Would he actually make more of a profit if you bunged him some cash to build the bike up so you get no hassle, he gets a profit for nothing more than labour and your both happy?

Usually about £200 if that’s RRP. Mention of cashflow above is very pertinent.

quite tempting to break in as its easier the more rural/out of the way you are maybe

whereas you don’t have to break into an LBS, the door’s open and the public can just walk in, handle the merchandise and, in some cases, pop it into a bag and walk out the door. I don’t think you can carry an argument that security against theft isn’t a problem in (bricks and mortar) retail settings..

£200 in a £600 bike? 😯 I doubt its that much?!

He’s a mate – whole debate stops there for me. Look after your mates – rule #1.

AT RRP it should be between £150-200 Any discount comes straight out of that.

So a 10% discount off RRP (£60) really eats into that gross margin.

That’s why you see 25% off at end of year, cashflow.

It’s a rubbish business really, selling bikes.

Usually about £200 if that’s RRP. Mention of cashflow above is very pertinent.

Stop being such a LBS-hugger. We all know LBS owners, like yourself, are minted.

😀