OK ‘worst enemy’ is extreme but I wanted to get people reading.. This isn’t a troll, esp as I very rarely start threads here.

This weekend I saw some things that worried me. In 2 different places that are used by a lot of walkers, gap jumps have been built across footpaths. I mean proper jumps, something that the average XC joe wouldn’t ride. One had already been dug at in protest. I also found a small booter jump in the middle of a fast flowy dh footpath, one I ride steadily covering the brakes as there’s blind corners in it, but I could’ve gone 10-12ft along the trail at speed off this small, well-placed jump. This adds to the dug-in berms, jumps and large, built up woodwork drops etc that have appeared on local Nat Trust land.
IMO, riding trails is one thing, digging like this is another. I have added to subtle cheekies in the past, but only by scuffing dirt or a log up against a fallen tree by foot, that kind of stuff. 3ft high ramps across a footpath are less acceptable. I guess it’s shades of the same thing, but there’s subtle and in-yer-face..

The debate on cheeky trail use is well established and I doubt there’s a lot we can add here – what I’m worried about is that some (I guess younger, but that may be quite wrong) riders seem to be looking for added radness that can’t be found locally (it’s the Chilterns – plenty of lovely, mellow natural trails but no tech) and are resorting to digging, wood/earthworks and general building in daft places with what looks like no regard for sublety, walker / dog scaring or injury potential or further thoughts about how it could affect access for all cyclists.

I’m being selfish here, I admit. I don’t want the minority who need big jumps to be happy to ruin access for the 90% + who just ride simple XC. Cranham woods has had a thread here due to the problem of trail building – good ones too, that I rode, but wouldn’t have built – and the increase in rider use that came with it. That situation plus what I’ve seen in the last year or so has me worried about future access.

So my point is, in the face of nimbys and general negativity toward the ‘rip up the trails!!’ MBUK type cover copy and people who don’t see any difference between a DH rider and a XC bimbler, towards the stereotyped ‘lads in full-faces scaring old walkers who know the right people’ and the fact we don’t have a collective voice with any real volume, should we –
Self-police more, ie dismante / maybe even report prominently built features? (reporting can’t be in our interest imo)
Help younger / radder riders find places to build or educate them on sustainable use?
Other ideas?

Open to debate – I’m interested in what people think.

+1. Just gets what may have been a good cheeky trail closed/rendered useless by landowner and may harm future development of trails sep in England.
Just ask the guys who, like you have ridden a trail for some time only to come across a “feature” and end up in A&E. I know of some and there was a guy on here a few yrs ago who ended up seriously injured(broken back/neck?)
Have “created” a few cheekies in the past but rarely with any limb or life threatening features or in areas. That may cause conflict. Leave it to the youngsters now 😉

There’s some jumps been built on a local bridleway in the middle of the trail. They’re on a cracking singletrack descent through some woods.

My issue with them is the trail is over a fairly well preserved roman road down a hill side and they’re removing the road cobbles where they are exposed to build the jumps with. Doh!

Someone is obviously not too happy as there have been blocks of concrete, branches and even a pallet put across the trail recently. I can only think they are to impede riders.

i’m with the OP.

recently approached some local folks who had done just this to a very highly trod path right on the edge of very a major city, and they all stood there and told me i was wrong, and that the trail had been like that all along.

dirty great 180 berms, and jumps built across singletrack footpaths are two of the most stupid things i have ever seen.

and guess what, two weeks later they were whining on facebook that some walker had put logs over the trail.

i wonder why…

trail has now gone on to be so well used it is appearing on videos on major biking websites, and has been totally trashed as a sneaky way to get out of the city.

face. palm.

It’s nothing new, but it’s the scale of it that concerns me now. Bigger bikes, more capable riders with more skill, it’s different to say, 5 or 10 years ago. More riders out there too. More media coverage of places like Surrey hills and Longleat trail building recently etc. It’s not looking good.

If it sounds like I’m not on the fence here, well I try to be and I’d support anyone’s desire to ride,but I’m finding my definition of MTB (coming from the rigid 80’s and riding only XC now, the sus bike comes out for Aston Hill, Wales or the Alps only) is in some places at odds with those that have a focus on big air / drops etc. That side of riding is getting like moto-x in the way that there’s few places you can do it now, so the pressure / urge to build is understandable, if not welcome by all.
The problem I see is the mix between XC and FR/AM now, where a 140mm trail bike can do what was DH 10 yrs ago and the 2 are meeting in the middle in areas where previously it was just bimbling XC riders (like me many days)

agreed no issue with building away from the track in the woods and i have too say most round here do that my other bug bear is huge groups, 10 plus, of riders riding ‘cheeky trails’ in wet conditions destroyed the trails for all users and then bikers get the blame for erosion.

I agree with your remark about the differences between cheek, clearing and digging.

The dicks who dig up established footpaths/bridleways should be stoned.

Without wishing to jump up onto my own personal soapbox it’s just another example of the attitude that is ruining society. What I mean is, self-centred behaviour that considers nobody else, nor considers that there may be future consequences to their actions/enjoyment in the here and now. Speak to any criminal and it’s an identical attitude.

learn to jump em, you’ll have less to complain about and More to enjoy, simple.

yes mountain bikers can be their own worst enemy, i have no problem per se with building jumps, but they have to be there with the owners permission otherwise it is going to cause issues.

Being local to Cranham, it is not just Cranham, there has been issues on Leckhampton and also at Popes wood it always ends up with jumps being built and people being surprised when they get pulled down.

Good post OP.

as in all sports and walks of life there are riders who don’t/can’t/won’t see the bigger picture.

The answer is more official bike parks/freeride trails for them who wants to do the crazy stuff

to be fair (as someone who works with teenagers) I’d rather they were out building unauthorised jumps in the forest and getting out on their bikes than shoplifting, drinking, experimenting with drugs, or simply sitting on their behinds playing videogames instead of being fit and healthy and enjoying the outdoors

That’s not to say it’s not annoying for people riding the trails though and I understand the gripe.

100% agree. Those that fly past walkers, take themselves too seriously, build jumps on bridleways or footpaths, ride at insane speeds as if racing but on 2 way trails or on a blind decent… Makes me so cross.

I wish people who don’t enjoy the exact same style of recreation as me would just disappear. What I do, and where I do it, is exactly how it should be done. Anything else should be banned.

Seriously. No one is going to approve of illegal building in sensitive spots but you have to recognise it for what it is – teenagers, kids, people who don’t really have a handle on what’s acceptable and what’s not. They’ll eventually grow up, wise up, and when they are drawing a pension they’ll probably riding a fully rigid around bridleways grumbling about people building jumps.

And to answer your question in a more direct way – no. Some mountainbikers are not the worst enemy of the sport. Walkers, horse riders and general kill joys will always be the worst enemies of the sport. Even if we ride at 3mph wrapped in bubble wrap and whisper and beg to be let passed they’ll still resent us for using their forest. A few mountainbikers building dodgy jumps might give them something to focus on, but they’ll hate us regardless, no matter how benign out presence.

Those same mountainbikers, even though they are engaging in dubious trail building (according to the op) are still mtb’ers and will eventually figure out what’s right and wrong. Provided in the meantime some grumpy old codgers don’t convince them that mtb’ing is actually about touring your rigid single speed through the forest at speeds which allow local bird life to nest in your capacious beard in between bouts of cake eating and tea drinking.

to be fair (as someone who works with teenagers) I’d rather they were out building unauthorised jumps in the forest and getting out on their bikes than shoplifting, drinking, experimenting with drugs, or simply sitting on their behinds playing videogames instead of being fit and healthy and enjoying the outdoors

I couldn’t agree more. In an ideal world we’d be able to all live and let live and ignore the jumps etc. I could, happily. But knowing the attitude of most landowners / influential council types they may end up having no more riding to do when a ban is put in place, removing access for all riders, and to them (if I was in their position) it’s just another thing that says ‘society thinks I’m a nuisance, fk it, may as well sit on our asses in front of facebok / in the park drinking / go and make a bong / etc’. So my Q is, how do we make it sustainable, more cheeky / subtle, etc?

When I was a lad, our bikes were simple and we rode simple trails all day long and had loads of great times. Times change, but there’s risks associated with these changes toward more excitingly-presented ‘quick-fix rad’.

littlemisspanda – Member
The answer is more official bike parks/freeride trails for them who wants to do the crazy stuff

to be fair (as someone who works with teenagers) I’d rather they were out building unauthorised jumps in the forest and getting out on their bikes than….
exactly

as to middle aged storm troopers who drive like ****ts on narrow lanes in their hurry to get to ride and then ride like ****ts on shared paths – think you find more people have a problem with that type of behaviour than building jumps

When I was a lad, our bikes were simple and we rode simple trails all day long and had loads of great times. Times change, but there’s risks associated with these changes toward more excitingly-presented ‘quick-fix rad’.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo[/video]

“QUICKFIX RAD” is now my new style of riding.

I’d rather they were out building unauthorised jumps in the forest and getting out on their bikes than shoplifting, drinking, experimenting with drugs, or simply sitting on their behinds playing videogames

there’s a difference between building away from established walking routes and converting footpaths and bridleways into bike only trails though.

I think a lot of people would rather that teenagers were drinking/taking drugs/playign videogames as long as it didn’t cause them any problems in their day-to-day lives.

It’s about showing respect. How can the kids who build this stuff expect it to remain as they want it if they show no consideration to other users of the area?

I’ve recently and for the first time had abuse ‘We’ve had enough of you cyclists’ from a dog walker in a piece of woodland I’ve ridden twice a week for the past 14 years. There has been a lot of recent building of DH tracks that use/cross the existing bridleways and footpaths. I think the two are connected.

muddyfunster – Member
I wish people who don’t enjoy the exact same style of recreation as me would just disappear. What I do, and where I do it, is exactly how it should be done. Anything else should be banned.

+1

I used to build jumps in the forest with my mates when we were all riding rigid bikes with cantis and as long as I have been riding there have been things appearing and disappearing. Get over it. As for damage I would agree with you but have you ever seen the mess a felling operation makes? Or what happens when they sell some land for a golf course?

After trying to get pemission to build in my local woods I was told I couldn’t because it’s a site of special scientific interest. 6 months later it’s been clear felled with 1m+ wide tracks from the machinery obliterating footpaths.

Obviously doing it on blind corners is pretty stupid but IMO it’s just the next in a long line of usage and if people are out enjoying the land on their bikes all the better.

The dicks who dig up established footpaths/bridleways should be stoned.
Without wishing to jump up onto my own personal soapbox it’s just another example of the attitude that is ruining society. What I mean is, self-centred behaviour that considers nobody else, nor considers that there may be future consequences to their actions/enjoyment in the here and now. Speak to any criminal and it’s an identical attitude.

THIS THIS THIS

I bet they would soon whinge if some MXers went down and up it on motorbikes- you read it on here as well.

It may well be mainly kids but they do some incredibly stuopid, dangerous and daft things [ which pretty much sums up being a kid though

You do know that part was aid in jest dont you lifer 😯

Yes, thought that would be obvious by the rest of my post!

You see it every where, and it pee’s me off as a rider and walker.

I wouldnt mind it in some ways if people were to permanently use the jumps, but they don’t. They will build them, use them for 1 maybe 2 years if lucky and then just leave… If they are no longer going to use them, then they should at least return the ground to how it was!

What is even worse is North Shore stuff. Wharncliffe woods has some lovely paths that are ruined by bits of broken old wood with rusty nails sticking out etc, not once have I seen anyone removing this old dangerous stuff.

Same goes for Esholt woods where there is old bits of wood and nail littered around…

Totally agree with the op.
I’ll clear fallen trees and do a little pruning for safeties sake , but you’d never know I’d been.
Don’t know what you’d do to self police it , because when I was a youth,sadly,I didn’t give a $hit either.

Ok maybe it’s getting off-topic and the jumps aren’t the main issue, middle-aged men riding like dcks is more widespread, but the jumps are used as an example by me here, and the anti’s that have a louder voice than us.

I wish people who don’t enjoy the exact same style of recreation as me would just disappear. What I do, and where I do it, is exactly how it should be done. Anything else should be banned.

muddyfunster, I also like a good DH run and jumps. Less of the jumps these days but drops, berms etc, all good fun. I like riding of all kinds and I like seeing others out doing whatever they enjoy – it’s the impact that the scale of unauthorised building has that I’m a lot more aware of now. Don’t take my references to rigid ss and bimbling as either thinking that’s all that riding should be, or that it’s all I do. Personal swipes aren’t answering the wider q I’m asking – about how the scale of building and the speed / ability of bikes and riders is slowly but surely becoming a increasing threat to what we all do. Got any sensible suggestions that don’t involve burying our heads in the sand and hoping we don’t all end up riding sectioned-off MTB parks?

Perhaps this is a bigger topic than just the jumps I saw that got me thinking. I suppose it’s a point about consideration of all users – the kids playing at a built-up spot, the MAMIL riding in pads on a 5, me on my rigid – I’m all 3 at times. We all risk losing access slowly but surely if we can’t keep some kind of tabs on this, it’s happening already. Maybe there’s no way to do it. Maybe self-policing by something between discussion with the builders, up to removal of the worst offending stuff as an extreme, is an answer?

not once have I seen anyone removing this old dangerous stuff.

Sometimes i get pssed off with seeing litter in places like snowdonia where just one coke can stands out, so I pick it up. I come back with half a dozen bits of junk. Some places are too far gone but others can be helped. Maybe we need to start doing more to clear up our own mess? (‘own’ as in we’re all riders, one interest with varying facets)

.

digging on footpaths is not cool

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+1 Lifer and littlemisspanda

Yes it’s daft but there’s much worse they could be doing.

muddyfunster, apologies maybe I mis-took you post. I’m not sure )

what could be better turn up for four years then **** off back to wherever they came from.

Whether we like it or not we are all ambassadors for the sport and its a sad fact that people always remember the worst examples , so if i ride to work I’ll be passed by dozens of cars but will tend to whinge about the ones that cut me up etc. In the same way walkers will pass loads of mountain bikers but you bet your boots that when they’re talking afterwards they’ll remember the tool that rode badly or wrecklessly near them .

Approach the council or local ranger about arranging trail building days for the youths.
Teach them and get them involved use schools, clubs like the scouts or local cycle clubs.
There’s bound to be a piece of land that needs clearing up nearby ie old brown field sites etc.
That’s what they did local to me, there’s even moneys there just for these projects.
But we all need to get involved more in our community.

I’d have to say there are a small minority who give the rest of us a bad name. It doesn’t take much to keep relationships with other trail users on the friendly side. Over our way it’s usually slow down, say a cheery hello and wish them a nice day. If you can get the hello and have a nice day in before they can get the “you shouldn’t be riding here” (we are generally allowed to ride where we ride!) they are left too shocked that those evil heathens whose only purpose is to make their day hell are actually a friendly bunch to give out to you and usually end up wishing us a friendly “have a nice day” back.

On the other hand, blasting past a group of special needs hikers on a multi-use trail with full face helmets (where it’s not needed) and wreckless disregard for others and then giving the finger to one of the group leaders who complained, does not do much to endear us to the general population. This instance actually happened on one of my local trails last summer. After that incident the local council nicely asked bikers to stop using that trail and many did. Traffic on that trail seems to have reduced and the only people I’ve seen down it in daylight hours lately have been the full-face brigade. I still use the trail after dark in the winter months when there is no issue with meeting anybody else on the trail never mind having any conflict with hikers.

Some of the tourist areas over here have signs on all trails asking for tolerance on both sides between hikers and bikers. In my experience there are just as many (or even more) bikers who are not tolerant and respectfull of hikers as there are hikers who are intolerant of freindly bikers.

ian martin, that’s more of what I’m asking about. I’ll ask the CTC about it since they’re involved at Aston Hill. I think the fun to many of any age is the local spot, the digging something secret side of it but it seems to be less secret and too obvious in many places.

I also found this – http://imba.org.uk/local-access-forums/

Mountain biking has certainly come a very long way from it’s roots – bikes, equipment, trails and riders…

The mentality described above links back in to the old Trail Centres vs “natural” rides debate.

10 years ago riders trundled off the CyB or Afan for an occaisional blast on a purpose built trail – with the majority of riding done on “normal” (ie shared) trails.

Over the last few years there seems to be an attitude of “lets build a “trail centre” type run (or those sort of featrues) in our local woods / trails.

IMO Trail centres have also attracted a different type of “intake” into the sport. For all the people I used to know who were into mtb (early 90s or so), it was an extension of their other “outdoors” sports – climbing, mountaineering, caving, canoeing, fell running even (almost no crossover with road riding 😉

That background tends to come with an ingrained respect for the outdoors. A desire to go to the wilder places and to have minimal impact.

Today the sport is much more popular – with the yoof and the middle agers who formerly (prob still do) chase small white balls and wear Pringle jumpers.

We need to get back to the well known outdoors philosophy

“Take only memories, leave nothing but footprints”

rkk01

well put , thats what I mean , I often walk and would be pissed off if someone came flying accoross the trail out of control , people have made jumps in woods near me within 3 miles of lee and cragg quarries .

Maybe we should lobby government.
1 pumptrack per 1000 homes.

[/quote]ian martin – Member
Approach the council or local ranger about arranging trail building days for the youths.
Teach them and get them involved use schools, clubs like the scouts or local cycle clubs.
There’s bound to be a piece of land that needs clearing up nearby ie old brown field sites etc.
That’s what they did local to me, there’s even moneys there just for these projects.
But we all need to get involved more in our community.

I totally agree with this, the problem certainly in my local area is that cuts to youth services have severely impacted funding that is available to do these things with young people. There was a young people’s participation forum which used to discuss the building and maintenance of amenities for kids and young people but they axed it, so of course the local yoof are pretty peed off there is nobody to listen to them and what they want/need in the local area anymore.

Doesn’t make it right for them to stick things on footpaths, but when they say to us “so where are we supposed to practice our skills and freeriding” nobody has an answer. The kids who are from wealthier families get taken to trail centres in the car with bike parks to practice at, but for the kids who rarely get out of the city and whose families can’t afford to do that, they are more likely to be the ones building their own.

Don’t get me wrong I’m absolutely not advocating people doing antisocial things and spoiling other’s enjoyment I just know from my work with young people that they can feel frustrated that there is nowhere for them to do these things and no resources to help them do it safely and out of the way of others who may be annoyed by it.

As an aside, I think it’s interesting that one of the Peak District Bridleway descents (from A north to B here) has been moulded by (as I understand it) Peak Rangers to be more jumpy/flowy/burmy for bikes.

Since then, it’s been tweaked a bit more (by them or by visitors, I don’t know).

It’s now a really fast descent with a couple of areas where you can come upon walkers very quickly indeed. When we’ve done it, the walkers have been very friendly and obviously stood at the side while we pass, but I can imagine it not always being the case.

I’ve wondered a couple of times whether this is the right approach or not. It’s certainly more fun than it used to be in stark contrast to the nearby Chapelgate fiasco.