Has anyone blamed foreigners yet?

Ah yes, I see that’s been done:

The introduction of the minimum wage has led to British people being forced out of the job market for immigrant workers who will work for less than minimum wage off the books

Phew! What a relief. 😀

If you had qualifications though you would not be on a minimum wage but if you are only fit to stack shelves ,wipe bums and sweep pavements what do you really expect to earn?

That Aston will be leased

If you had qualifications though you would mot be on a minimum wage but if you are only fit to stack shelves ,wipe bums and sweep pavements what do you really expect to earn?

If you lack sufficient intelligence to work out why this is complete and utter bollocks, should you in fact get paid at all? 😉

The norm might be considered a chap I know who failed completely at school, lived in a really bad estate in Rochdale, left with no qualifications.

Thing is not everybody fails at school and leaves with no qualifications for the same reason. Some do so because they had the wrong role models/ attitudes and what was going on around them in their childhood but have the wherewithal to come good later in life. Others leave school in the same predicament because they just don’t have much academic ability, or much other ability come to that. They can be as nice a person as you could wish to meet and as hard working as you could imagine but they are not ever going to be earning what it takes to drive an Aston. It would be reasonable to expect them to be able to earn a living wage however.

To think the world is a level playing field and its all out there for everyone if they are just prepared to work hard enough is naive in the extreme.

That Aston will be leased stolen 😉

but if you are only fit to stack shelves,wipe bums and sweep pavements what do you really expect to earn?

A living wage ?

Is that the correct answer ?

Jobcentre found him a job as a trainee carpenter

Lucky they found him this job eh

Lets face it some peple are utter cretins and will never have the ability to earn much thats why nvqs were invented .Dad taught and said it stood for not very qualified (tongue in cheek moment)

My immediate thought after ingesting those stats, is that the top 1% clearly earn far too much compared to the rest of the country.

And I’d guess that a very large percentage of them made their money (and continue to) from the public purse – from consultancy firms, through construction and defence, plus numerous others.

Such as GP’s? And now they are able to ‘push’ NHS money directly to businesses they control, they’ll be moving up the wealth ladder.

A living wage ? 500 quid a week for manual labour or do more hours because you dont have the skills to earn it in 40 hours .Or do we all get paid loads for easy jobs which puts the cost of living up and fuels inflation ?

Lets face it some peple are utter cretins and will never have the ability to earn much thats why nvqs were invented

Well as an utter cretin (based on my lack of academic qualifications) I don’t quite understand. You said :

“If you had qualifications though you would not be on a minimum wage”

And now you’re saying that some qualifications are in fact worthless ? Is that right ?

utter cretins and will never have the ability to earn much

So are these two things mutually exclusive?

The norm might be considered a chap I know who failed completely at school, lived in a really bad estate in Rochdale, left with no qualifications….. and yes he’s probably a millionaire I’d say – drives an Aston anyway.

So, he’s achieved such wealth purely through legitimate means, and by being a decent and fair employer?

In my experience, such ‘self made millionaires’ have rarely got there by just ‘hard work’ alone. It certainly helps if you’re a nasty bastard ready to shit on someone else if it profits you. And have a good working knowledge of how to pay as little tax as possible, exploit every loophole etc.

I know a bloke who is significantly wealthy. On the surface, he’s a decent, pillar of society hard working grafter etc etc. A devout Christian, ‘does a lot of work for charity (that he doesn’t like to talk about mate) etc.

Truth is, that he’s a ruthless single-minded **** who has scammed, conned and fiddled his way to ‘success’. He draws a ‘salary’ of just a few thousand a year, from his company (based offshore, surprise surprise), and regularly boasts of how he pays just 10% tax. And he made most of his fortune through public service contract work. IE, from taxpayers.

Oh, and he’s a Labour voter. 😐

I’m glad I don’t work for him.

thx1138 – Member

Has anyone blamed foreigners yet?

Ah yes, I see that’s been done:

“The introduction of the minimum wage has led to British people being forced out of the job market for immigrant workers who will work for less than minimum wage off the books”

Phew! What a relief.

I’m not saying that the situation is typical in this country, but the company I mentioned before that lowered their basic wage when the minimum wage was introduced refused me work as I couldn’t speak Polish!

Not that I have anything against immigrants, as I come from an immigrant family, I hope you understand. 🙂

So the chance is there for everyone – just depends how hard you’re prepared to work, not luck

I’d say this bit…

Jobcentre found him a job as a trainee carpenter

was luck. If he’d gone to Jobcentre a week later the story could have been very different.

You can only make a success of the opportunities that present themselves. Not everyone is lucky enough to have the opportunities.

See Fred’s back then.

Not sure if already been linked, but interesting article from Jeremy Warner, bastion of the right at the telegraph:

Low pay tends to be confined to four or five sectors which are largely immune to considerations of international competitiveness – wholesale and retail, hotels and catering, community and social services, seasonal agriculture, and less skilled intensive manufacturing. These industries substantially cater for domestic demand, and therefore cannot easily be offshored. To force them to pay more might therefore have inflationary consequences, but it wouldn’t necessarily lead to significant loss of overall employment…..

.By contrast, substantially raising the minimum wage immediately addresses two major economic anomalies. One is the now perverse growth in corporate profits and cash accumulation. Rather than being recycled into the economy, which is what happens in normal times, corporate profits are being hoarded, further eating into demand. In the US, corporate profits as a proportion of GDP are at a record high. Wages, by contrast, are at a post war low. Again I don’t lightly dismiss the right to make or even hoard profits, but things are getting seriously out of quilter. This is not the way capitalism is supposed to work, where wealth accumulation gets shared through trickle down effects. The division of spoils has reached a level which if unaddressed threatens to be dangerously destabilising, socially and politically.

Full article

thx1138 – Member

Oh, and he’s a Labour voter.

Tax avoider votes for party that uses tax avoidance.
I fail to understand your surprise.
🙂

You can only make a success of the opportunities that present themselves. Not everyone is lucky enough to have the opportunities.

Stop being pedantic – honestly you negative doomster types could make any reason for not achieving what you think is rightfully yours without having to make the necessary sacrifices.

This guy got his opportunity from being unemployed, and for practically working for free for several months. If you think that’s luck then you need your head examining.

The jobcentre and various training organisations place thousands of people into this type of scheme every week yet many who get placed don’t get anywhere because they don’t like the pay, can’t be arsed to turn up to work on time or work hard when you get there. By your definition I suppose you would define that as ‘Bad Luck’?

I fail to understand your surprise.

I’m no longer surpised, just saddened. 🙁

See Fred’s back then.

‘NuFred’, apparently. 😕

I don’t think that anyone resents someone who is rich and successful due to their own hard work,

Reading some of the comments on threads on here would suggest otherwise.
binners
And what point is it I have missed BTW?

binners – Member
I don’t think that anyone resents someone who is rich and successful due to their own hard work

I wouldn’t resent them, but i would call anyone who claimed to be rich and successful due to their own hard work a liar.

Stop being pedantic – honestly you negative doomster types could make any reason for not achieving what you think is rightfully yours without having to make the necessary sacrifices.

Rebel – I started my own business, grafted my ****ing arse off for 6 years building it up, then at the height of the banking crisis my 3 biggest clients all folded in quick succession owing me serious amounts of cash. I lost literally everything but the clothes I was stood up in

I reckon I’m more representative of your average person who starts a business than honest john the Carpenter. And after having someone ‘roll’ their company on me, buying it back for a token fee a week after he went bust, thus wiping out all debts. I’d also concur with what thx1138 says. A lot of people who are very successful are so because they’re right dodgy bastards who haven’t a single moral or principle other than making and keeping more money for themselves.

If anyone asked me should they start their own business in the present climate, I’d tell them they’d have to be out of their tiny ****ing minds!!!

This guy got his opportunity from being unemployed, and for practically working for free for several months. If you think that’s luck then you need your head examining

Sure he worked hard and this is necessary to achieve great things. But he was still GIVEN the opportunity, this bit was not of his own making.

The jobcentre and various training organisations place thousands of people into this type of scheme every week yet many who get placed don’t get anywhere because they don’t like the pay, can’t be arsed to turn up to work on time or work hard when you get there

And the one’s that do turn up, work hard and appreciate it don’t automatically get to become rich and successful.

By your definition I suppose you would define that as ‘Bad Luck’?

Nope. Not everything needs an opposite.

So we have two examplrs Lord Sugar and a bloke in Rochdale I suppose any examples of people who havent become rich are just workshy?

To be fair, anything above minimum wage would make you comparatively minted in Rochdale 😉

But he was still GIVEN the opportunity, this bit was not of his own making.

Stop nitpicking by introducing facts into the argument.

Or being “pedantic” as rebel12 likes to call it.

Binners, I’m sorry about your business but any business is going to suffer some some setbacks – pretty big in your case but this isn’t typical from those I speak to. Yes there are some dodgy bast**ds around but again there are plenty of decent people too.

I know some people who have started some very successful businesses over the last few years – in the middle of a recession, with very little in the way of cash to fund the startup. So I would argue that this can be the perfect time to start, particularly in these cash strapped times businesses that can undercut and offer better service than a much larger competitor.

anagallis_arvensis – Member

So we have two examplrs Lord Sugar and a bloke in Rochdale I suppose any examples of people who havent become rich are just workshy?

Nope, not everyone wants to become rich but my point is that if you’re not happy on minimum wage then it’s up to you to do something about it rather than just whinge and bitch on here. If you throw in the towel and blame bad luck, your troubled upbringing, someone else or ‘the system’ then you’re never going to achieve what you want. There are opportunities out there for everyone if you’re prepared to look and work hard enough.

ernie_lynch – Member

But he was still GIVEN the opportunity, this bit was not of his own making.

Stop nitpicking by introducing facts into the argument.

Or being “pedantic” as rebel12 likes to call it.

Changed my mind – I think you are being pathetic, not pedantic.

any business is going to suffer some setbacks

These can be avoided if only you just work a little harder.

Rebel – when my business went under, around the same time another 4 of my friends also lost their businesses in virtually exactly the same circumstances.

The idea that if you work hard enough then you’ll succeed just doesn’t ring true in our present society. Some people have the odds massively stacked in their favour. And successive governments have consolidated the advantages enjoyed by a small section of society, and are now set about putting any social mobility gained over recent decades well and truly in reverse

Isn’t there saying in business that every succesful businessman goes bust at least once?
Didn’t Lord Sugar twice?
That means a lot of people like binners get burned.
Every one of my mates who have their own business (mainly building)have had their fingers burned to a greater or lesser degree and they become a lot cannier about how they work and credit etc.

I’m struggling to understand what I should do to achieve more in life; should I work hard and aspire to better myself or should I throw in the towel and wait for someone to hand my easy life to me on a plate?
💡

🙂

And after having someone ‘roll’ their company on me, buying it back for a token fee a week after he went bust, thus wiping out all debts.

Did you wonder if you’d missed a trick when you went bust?

I know some people who have started some very successful businesses over the last few years – in the middle of a recession, with very little in the way of cash to fund the startup. So I would argue that this can be the perfect time to start, particularly in these cash strapped times businesses that can undercut and offer better service than a much larger competitor

Wow where is this mythical land of which you speak?

These examples [ what a mixed bunch of friends you have – successful business person after successful business person after successful business person- given they spend all hours working where exactly do you meet them – are you their accountant?] are not typical as a quick glance at reality will quickly persuade you.

Again yes some folk can be successful but it is like arguing if we all work hard at football we will all be premiership football players.

Perhaps we should have confidence that the Low Pay Commission will continue to do their job properly?

Last year, it concluded that:

Our research programme for the 2012 Report has added to the existing literature on the impact of the NMW on earnings, employment and hours. Taking all of this knowledge collectively, we conclude that the lowest paid had received higher than average pay rises, and the research, on balance, generally finds little or no significant adverse impact of the minimum wage on employment.

And their research and considerations included:

Stakeholder views on the appropriate level for the adult rate fell roughly into two camps. A large number of employer representatives, especially those from small businesses, called for a freeze, citing the uncertain economic outlook and the pressures businesses were currently under. They felt there should not be an increase until we were in a period of sustained growth. Some, however, saw room for a modest increase although they urged caution given the fragility of the labour market….

…On the other hand, worker representatives all wanted to see an increase. They said that the economy was recovering, albeit slowly, and that a large increase was necessary to offset the fall in the real value of the minimum wage caused by inflation. Some wanted to see an increase in line with inflation (CPI or RPI) and others saw a living wage as the ultimate aim, so wanted to see a substantial increase this year, as a first step towards this.

Seems like the body responsible takes its role seriously and with suitable rigour. Why would this change just because the Coalition government asks them to consider another question?

Changed my mind – I think you are being pathetic, not pedantic.

Careful – now you’ve made him cry.