D28boy

I had a crash about 4 weeks ago in the Alps and it's knocked my confidence a lot. I'm a newbie too. I've just bought some lightweight protective stuff (in addition to helmet/gloves/eyewear) that will go under longer gear as it gets colder. Hoping it will help my nerves and maybe save some skin next time. At the moment when I'm still in shorts and T, I feel pretty vulnerable with bare arms and knees. I got this stuff – knee pads, elbow pads and wrist wraps, all very lightweight, neoprene stuff, it's v comfortable. Will be trying it out on Sunday:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=39369
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=39366
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=47034

I use sticky 5 10 mtb shoes on flat pedals but ride in trail runners too sometimes

I reckon there is a wee bit of 'skill' involved when it comes to falling off. When I took up snowboarding, I found that the falls were pretty unpredictable – you catch an edge (dry slope) and you're on your @rse before you know what's happening.

When you start losing it on a bike you tend to have an idea of which direction you're going to fall, and how it's going to happen. Often, you can fall in such a way as to mitigate the damage – whether it's a conscious thought process or not is debatable….

First of all, to the OP:

People will look at you like you're mad if you don't wear a helmet but aopparently the figures from the Peebles/ERI survey suggest that serious head injuries are drastically less common than serious knee injuries, even if you don't do any selection to remove facial injuries that wouldn't be prevented by a standard helmet. Obviously a serious head injury is worse than a serious knee injury but both suck.

Knees are delicate, they're exposed, they tend not to heal well and they're generally useful for riding with. So, it's hardly required but it's a pretty good idea to protect them. Especially since a set of decent pads like Kyle Straits are comfortable and unrestrictive and don't even add much heat/swear (I wore mine for a 46km ride in the south of france in august, up a 24km tour de france all-cat climb, no bother.).

Even if they never prevent a serious injury (and to pre-empt any damn fool who says "pads can't prevent injuries- yes they can and do, the physics of it are incredibly simple) they also do a great job of preventing those trivial but niggling injuries… Bash a knee off a shifter and you can ruin a ride and be off the bike and limping around for weeks, it'll get better but I'd sooner avoid it.

To the argument:

Of course crashing's a skill, or maybe we should say landing? Is anyone really going to say that everyone lands the same and there's nothing to be done to reduce the effect? Tell that to a judo instructor. Or to anyone who's ever stuck out their arms in a minor crash and broken a collarbone with the leverage.

Lee Carmichael: "Crashing happens, and it usually happens fast. You rarely have time to think "Uh oh, I better tuck my arms in. Okay, now I better roll…" It's more like -smash!- and however you're programmed to react, that's what you do".

The skill is in the programming. I tuck and roll because that's what I was trained to do. I don't think about it, I just do it, knock me over in the street and I'll do the same.

As for just not crashing, nice idea but if you're riding with any commitment and pace, on any interesting terrain, it's going to happen. I could ride in a manner that'd make crashing incredibly unlikely, we all could, but only by riding in the most pedestrian way possible on the safest trails possible. And frankly, sod that. With reward comes risk.

so is it just me that gets matrix like vision in a crash where everything slows down ?

i have crashed ALOT and it is certainly something that gets better with practice !

GW. What I mean is, we all express our opinion. But you seem determined to vehemently express your opinion of my opinion, rather than just say what you think about the topic. All I said was that you don't need to fall off as a matter of course, and it is better in my opinion and experience to remain positively minded.

Now – rather than just saying that you hold an alternative view, you had to say that I was talking rubbish and then express all kinds of opinions about me, rather than about my point as expressed.

Plus. What I said there wasn't just informed by what I have been "taught to teach". I've been mountain biking for a long time, and I know what works for me as well as for the people I teach. I also know how to catch a balance between the inevitability of the odd knock and the virtue of keeping a positive mind.

Finally. I do not think I am blinkered or unwilling to bring in new thoughts. On this topic however – I moved on some decades ago from crashing needlessly or frequently.

I tend to wear knee+shin and forearm pads for steep rocky/rooty downhills. I've been over the bars three or four times in the last few years and I've never been able to do anything about it in terms of falling correctly – it's all been over before I know what's happening. The worst one was the last one (2 weeks ago) and it was the only one when I had pads on. I severely twisted my leg and could bearly walk for about a week. I also strained my shoulder. The pads didn't benefit me in terms of these injuries! I suspect I would have got off and pushed over the rooty section in question if I'd been pad free so make of that what you will. I'll probably be off the bike for at least a month in total, more likely 2. I'll probably continue taking my pads with me in the future; whether I'll be more cautious remains to be seen.

No Terry, me too. I'm rather fond of those slow mo moments.

If you're going to type your opinion for the world to read be prepared for criticism.

Finally. I do not think I am blinkered or unwilling to bring in new thoughts. On this topic however – I moved on some decades ago from crashing needlessly or frequently.

If that's not blinkered I don't know what is.

yunki – Member

what sort of riding are you doing to crash that frequently..?

Raced DH for 15 years, and been riding BMX a lot longer.
I rarely crash riding XC (maybe 2 or 3 proper crashes a year)

How does that make any sense? Like lost people I used to crash a bit, have picked up a few knocks over the (many) years. Then I learned how to ride better and stopped falling off. On my journey to staying-on I discovered a lot of things that I wish I'd have known to start with, and that would have helped me avoid a lot, but not all, of the pain. So now I find helpful ways of imparting those lessons.

I'm always looking for new things to add to the helpful stuff, but falling off "1000's of times" doesn't sound too helpful to me.

How does that make any sense? Like lost people I used to crash a bit

😯 😕

maybe you should go teach DH racers your discoveries. 🙄

I'm afraid I genuinely have no idea what the **** you're on about. I'm not trying to teach anyone DH, or make any wider point. The OP was talking about just riding a mountain bike – I was trying to be helpful. Not sure what you're trying to do.

In the UK I crash rarely, and so only go with openface helmet & gloves in normal riding conditions. I might get caught out at some point, but I know the areas I ride well enough. From time to time there's the odd tumble, but nowt to worry over.

In the Alps, however, it's a different story. Much higher speeds, lots of open rocks, and a higher propensity to crach ('cos I'm nowhere near as good on a DH bike) means that I have the almost obligatory stormtrooper look. Pressure suit, full face helmet, knee pads, armoured undershorts. Despite that I still managed to rip my knee pretty badly with one pretty nasty crash.

Agree that crashing is most definitely a skill, the split second choice to roll/protect or flail wildly is a must have for any MTBer. Thinking that you'll never crash is more likely to upset/affect you more when it does happen, just accept it and move on. I love to push myself when riding, to go faster, gnarlier etc..etc, that's the whole point of MTBing …for me anyways.

D28boy, slightly OT.
Where do you ride around your area? Whitchurch yes? I've never ventured that way before. Is it all Bridleways and easy to link a loop together?

Wear what you feel comfortable with, I'm a believer that if you want to improve you will have to crash a bit. Check out dirt fundimentals where Peaty is chatting about finding your speed round a corner, he suggests to keep hitting it faster until you have a little crash then you have found your limit and can back it down a fraction. +1 to whom ever it was that said they did Judo as a kid, so did I and I find I tend to roll and avoid injury (frantically touches wood.) I'm not convinced that knee pads do too much myself, they don't protect against the injuries you really need to avoid for that you need a knee brace which is a little far out price and lack of movement wise. I'd personally borrow knee pads, elbow pads and see if you get on with them, if you do great buy them you can't have too much protection. Finally I'd also get out and ride on really wet days, push your abilities cornering and get to know what the bike feels lie when the wheels slide un-expectedly. You might fall off quite a bit but it won't hurt so much if you pick somewhere nice and soft (wet grass) and you might learn how to save yourself from some of the more mundane crashes like when the front wheel slips out.

Iain

Just bought some Tomcats after smashing my knee on a big wet slab of limestone.