Viewing 36 posts - 1 through 36 (of 36 total)
  • Mild Rant : Insurance company dragging it's heels
  • leftyboy
    Free Member

    So back in March I was returning from a family ride at Frimley when a woman ran into the back of my car while I was stationary at some traffic lights. The other driver has admitted full liability for the accident.

    The car had ~£3,000 of damage (now repaired) but we had 3 bikes on the towbar mounted bike rack. My wife and son’s bikes are totally written off (chain stay’s cracked and bent into rear wheels) and my Whyte T-130 has damage to the swingarm, crank arm and fork.

    The other insurance company have paid out for the car repairs but are not responding to requests for the other losses to be reimbursed. My insurers have now started court proceedings but this could take 6 months!

    Am I being unreasonable to expect that my Whyte T-130 Works, new in October 2014 and ridden ~200 miles (I’ve been injured) be replaced? My reasoning is that the swingarm has a small groove in it, the crank has a couple of deep scratches and the fork has 2 small marks one on the crown the other on the stanchion. As the bike was hit (it was on the outside) at ~15 MPH by a ~1.5 ton car and transferred enough force to write off the other 2 bikes it’s been subjected to forces it wasn’t designed to cope with. Additionally the LBS/Whyte havce said should I need to make a warranty claim they would put it on a jig and if it’s not true they’d not warranty it.

    As a aside I’d washed the bike the day before and I can honestly say none of the marks were there then and I didn’t crash at Swinley so damage is logically from the accident.

    munrobiker
    Free Member

    I think there was a couple that used to frequent here a lot (I can’t remember their names- ginger something?) who had this happen and had their bikes replaced.

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    I’m 100% expecting that the bikes will get replaced but why it has to go to court I’m not sure?

    The other driver said “I thought you’d be gone by the time I got there”, she’s admitted full liability so it’s seems to me straight forward.

    I’m guessing that the £3K value of the Whyte is what’s driving the payout as slowly as possible stance. The other insurers, Sun Alliance, are bl**dy lucky it was a family ride and not a boys (well MAMILs) trip to Swinley when there would have been 4 bikes with a combined value nearer £10k on the rack!

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    hora
    Free Member

    Am I being unreasonable to expect that my Whyte T-130 Works, new in October 2014 and ridden ~200 miles (I’ve been injured) be replaced? My reasoning is that the swingarm has a small groove in it, the crank has a couple of deep scratches and the fork has 2 small marks one on the crown the other on the stanchion.

    Considering the damage done to your car and the other bikes I wouldn’t want to keep using this frame. Someone who used to cycle when they were younger assumes you ride around a park feeding the Ducks on it so may not grasp what forces could be transfered etc etc into. Plus the groove. Will a crack develop around there overtime?

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Yes all should be replaced.

    It’s a fundamental part of the insurance business model to try and avoid paying out and if you have to to delay as long as possible. Sad but true.

    amedias
    Free Member

    this could take 6 months!

    Would that not also substantially increase your claim for loss of use of the bike as well for ~6 months, or does it not work like that?

    I thought for example, if you’d had to hire a car while yours was being replaced/repaired that the other insurer would cover that cost as its a resultant loss, does the same not apply if you end up bikeless for months on end?

    Hope you get it sorted quickly BTW.

    hora
    Free Member

    It’s a fundamental part of the insurance business model to try and avoid paying out and if you have to to delay as long as possible. Sad but true.

    I had a whiplash claim that was being dragged out…. until the lady said (literally) ‘how do we know that you’re telling the truth’? I reminded her that there were two people in the car, one was curled up asleep and only one was injured. If it was fraudulent there would be two claims…

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    @amedias sadly not as apparently it’s only material losses you can claim for!

    I had a hire car for the period that the car was being repaired but Sun Alliance are asking if I could have afforded to fund my own hire car! I’ve said yes I could do but why should I when it’s the other driver’s fault, liability admitted. I didn’t need to hire a car until she ran into the back of mine rendering it un-driveable so the fact I can afford to hire a car seems irrelevant to me 🙂

    hora
    Free Member

    Leftyboy what forms had you filled in for the car? That sounds like a accident managment company line.

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    @Hora yes agreed they want to hold on to the money for as long as possible but equally don’t want to compensate me for the loss of the use of the bikes! It’s the way of the (insurance) world but I guess I’d hope I’d be fairer than that. We’ve not claimed for any personal injuries, as we had none, which means we’re being honest and fair it’s a shame Sun Alliance aren’t IMHO.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    The other insurance company have paid out for the car repairs but are not responding to requests for the other losses to be reimbursed. My insurers have now started court proceedings but this could take 6 months!

    I would have thought that a small claims writ against the driver personally for the full value of your bikes would get things moving faster at her end. Her insurers have let her down by not paying out in a timely way when she is clearly liable.

    hora
    Free Member

    I like this (I say like I don’t mean it literally).

    Drag your heels so that the other party starts to think ‘maybe car insurance is only for car cover and thats why they aren’t coming back to me as its not their problem’?

    I wonder how many of such gets them money saved..

    scrumfled
    Free Member

    Another route is to hire a bike when you need it, and attach the hire cost to your claim.

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    @scrumfled thinking of doing this but have been advised that the other company might refuse to pay out as it’s not a material loss and could be avoided!

    amedias
    Free Member

    sadly not as apparently it’s only material losses you can claim for!

    Shame, I’d say it was worth a go though, even if it jsut helps to move the claim along! Could you potentially pursue the driver directly for that or the hire cost though even if their insurance doesn’t cover it?

    If you were injured and had required ongoing costs like assisted travel to work or continued treatment they would cover that, I don’t see why you should be at any inconvenience or loss as a result of their actions.

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    @Hora yes an accident management company was handling the repair/hire. It’s Sun Alliance who are being ‘difficult’ apparently they often ask about whether the hire was necessary and are slow to respond to non-insured losses as they

    a) keep their money a bit longer
    b) don’t need as many claims processing staff
    c) are a big company so don’t need to move fast or worry about the individual

    I’m fairly sure that this is all covered by their risk assessors deciding how to load policies to allow for ‘exceptional’ circumstances.

    If they refuse to pay out I’ll just go for the other driver, she was driving a company car so may not want someone pursuing them when their insurance company aren’t doing their job 🙂

    Might take some advice, my sister-in-law is a partner in a law firm so free advice, on pursuing a claim against the driver for the lost riding time 🙂

    TheLittlestHobo
    Free Member

    Its not an issue for them to use delaying tactics to take this to court. Its also not an issue for you to be refunded for your lack of use of your bike whilst it goes to court.

    I used to deal with commercial claims many many moons ago and it would not be unreasonable for you to provide a quote from a trail centre or such like for a days hire of a equivelant bike. Then multiply that by the amount of times you would tend to use your own bike in 6mths. I bet we would be getting on for double the £3k they stand to lose if they pay out for your bike.

    As with your car, it got repaired quickly because it is sometimes more expensive for them to incur hire costs than it is to just get it repaired. Why should it be any different for your bike (Unless they think you are just after a new bike).

    Call your insurers, tell them you want you loss of use included in any claim, back it up with a proper quote and calculation and see if that encourages the other insurers to settle

    TheLittlestHobo
    Free Member

    How is it not a material loss. Its no different to losing the use of a car. Who has told you its not a material loss?

    Do you have another £3k bike lying around to replace it with whilst you wait? I expect not. Therefore you cannot be reasonably expected to be able to avoid the loss of use whilst they decide to argue the toss. Therefore they should reimburse you for the lack of use.

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    Leftyboy, you can sue for any losses you want, including incidental expenses. You might not win as much as you hope for – though you might get more. Just because an insurance company says they won’t pay, doesn’t mean a court won’t make them. I would send them a recorded delivery claim with every additional expense you can possibly think of including details of how it is increasing over time, it might focus their minds.

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    @thecaptain Worth thinking about thanks

    Jakester
    Free Member

    jambalaya – Member

    Yes all should be replaced.

    It’s a fundamental part of the insurance business model to try and avoid paying out and if you have to to delay as long as possible. Sad but true.

    Funnily enough the converse is often the case – they want to get claims paid as quickly and as cheaply as possible to try and minimise legal costs if it goes to court.

    OP, make sure your uninsured losses (ie the damaged bikes) are included in the court proceedings as if it’s settled off without them being included you lose the right to bring a separate claim.

    mattsccm
    Free Member

    May not be possible but a friend who had a similar situation got on the phone and mentioned that unless he got a settlement in a week he would be putting his side in the hands of a man agement company who would be adding their costs to the bill. He was told to hold for a few minutes. He was passed to a more senior bod who there and then offered him a cash settlement for him to approve as they spoke.24 hours later it was in his basnk

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    Tried to call Sun Alliance but had massive difficulty in talking to a real live person, when I did they transferred me to the commercial department, as my claim is being handled by my insurers, and they promptly told me to go away because I’m not a commercial customer!

    I’ve sent a complaint email (sent on Monday) but have had no reply and am not really expecting a response.

    Seems that Sun Alliance challenged the hire car costs but have since paid the repairers/accident management company which seems to be progress?

    Very frustrated as the accident was on 28th March 2015 so 53 days ago!

    Rich_s
    Full Member

    Get the valuations for repairs/replacement of the bikes and serve court papers on the other driver. Things will happen quickly then!

    stever
    Free Member

    53 days is nothing to an insurer. My (no fault) accident took 12 months to settle through a mix of intransigence and incompetence. It took court proceedings from the other injured party to get them shifting. Sorry 🙂

    ant77
    Free Member

    Do you log your rides on Strava?
    Could use that to work out an average amount of rides you do in a month, then multiply that out by the hire cost?

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    @stever Yes that’s what I was thinking and @ant77 yes good idea

    All in all a sh*t experience and through no fault of mine we’re down 3 bikes as a family just when the weather is looking better and my wife 7 son want to ride bikes!

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    From Sun Alliance (RSAGroup) website:

    We are committed to:

    Delivering consistent and reliable levels of customer service
    Acting with integrity, due care and diligence
    Communicating openly, honestly and with sensitivity and understanding
    Listening to our customers
    Handling complaints fairly and promptly
    Respecting our customers’ rights to privacy and confidentiality
    Protecting our customers and our business from fraud

    So I can safely say they’re failing on at least 4 of those 🙂

    sandwicheater
    Full Member

    To be fair to RSA, you’re not their customer.

    If you have the money, i’d just replace the bikes and send them the bill. Easier said than done.

    If you need it sorting asap you could always look at claiming on your own home insurance (or where ever they are insured) and let them claim the outlay back from RSA.

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    @sandwicheater True but their customer was totally at fault and has admitted full liability but I’m the one waiting on payment. the bikes total £4k so not keen to shell that out and then wait/hope they eventually pay out.

    The main bit that I feel is very poor is the total lack of communication, hence my insurers issuing court proceedings.

    Claiming on my insurance counts against me when I’m totally not at fault so not keen on that route.

    Regretting not having a sore neck or back now and really fleecing them! I wasn’t injured so I did the fair and right thing by being open and honest shame her insurers don’t do the same IMHO.

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    So I’ve received a call from the insurance company and they’ve raised a cheque to settle the damages. Seems odd that it took a threat of court and a complaint email to get it moving but apparently the evidence I supplied (photos and detailed description of the damage) had to be verified by an independent engineer!

    Anyway whatever prompted the call I’m now happy to be waiting for the cheque.

    Apparently the Whtye T-130 Works in medium has now sold out so I’m glad my LBS put the last one aside for me!

    Jujuuk68
    Free Member

    My insurers have now started court proceedings but this could take 6 months!

    The accident was only march. There’s little likely hood any insurer has actually started court proceedings yet. And if they did, and didn’t include items not covered, such as the bikes, they prejudiced his position and don’t have to pay. You can only issue proceedings once against someone – So this isn’t true to start with.

    I’m 100% expecting that the bikes will get replaced but why it has to go to court I’m not sure?

    [i] You get put back into the position you were in prior to the accident, with 3 used bikes. It sounds as if your expecting new bikes here? Bikes being replaced, or a cheque for the used value of them? And you expect anyone to have an encycopedic instant knowledge of the used value of obscure second hand bikes? Your not claiming against Singletrackworld Insurance Company (SIC)are you?[/i]

    The main bit that I feel is very poor is the total lack of communication, hence my insurers issuing court proceedings.

    But you got an Accident Management Company representing you? They *cant* talk to you directly. *You* chose to be represented. The failure to progress is probably as much there’s as anyone else’s, but they wouldn’t tell you this, would they? I bet you don’t even know who did your repairs? Your insurer, the AMC? To issue, it’s clear the third party insurer didn’t,yet it seems despite them being the last to see the claim, only having an invoice presented after the event, should have paid already? Your so unclear I can’t make it out and I do this for a living!

    It’s a fundamental part of the insurance business model to try and avoid paying out and if you have to to delay as long as possible. Sad but true.

    [i]Sadly incorrect. An open claim is one still costing in time and unknown costs, and preventing from moving on to the next one. The cheapest ones are quickly settled ones. That’s why AMC’s try to drag them out and so do solicitors. Solicitors even put pressure on to legally forbid insurers making quick “pre medical” injury offers after accident, so they could drag things out, add litigation risk to every claim and ensure their pet medical experts (who are instructed by agencies who are owned by solicitors) get to charge extra fees. [/i]

    I’m fairly sure that this is all covered by their risk assessors deciding how to load policies to allow for ‘exceptional’ circumstances. If they refuse to pay out I’ll just go for the other driver, she was driving a company car so may not want someone pursuing them when their insurance company aren’t doing their job

    [i] This doesn’t even make sense. Whats “loading policies” got to do with a claim? Sounds as if you don’t even know who your claiming against either. One minute its the other driver, then in another breath, your thinking about claiming against the other driver.
    [/i]

    I had a hire car for the period that the car was being repaired but Sun Alliance are asking if I could have afforded to fund my own hire car! I’ve said yes I could do but why should I when it’s the other driver’s fault, liability admitted. I didn’t need to hire a car until she ran into the back of mine rendering it un-driveable so the fact I can afford to hire a car seems irrelevant to me

    [i]Now, this is why your claim is being dragged out. An accident management company is billing, probably thousands of pounds of hire charges that you incurred. Its the most common source of dispute in RTA claims, as AMC’s try everything to bump up the bill, from booking cars into garages on thursdays, (so they don’t get inspected for at least 4-5 days. Your hire car may have cost more than the actual value of your car by the time they supplied like for like (its lovely to have a new car when you own was 6 years old, isn’t it!) added extras, and basically pissed about racking up the charges you don’t care about. [/i]

    But at least we finally see you may be getting 1 sided info, from an AMC over who’s fault the delays are. Couldn’t be your representatives, could it?

    The main bit that I feel is very poor is the total lack of communication, hence my insurers issuing court proceedings.

    But you got an amc representing you? They *cant* talk to you directly. *You* chose to be represented.

    To be honest, this whole thread is the usual drivel from people who don’t understand whats happening, who’s doing what for them, but just accept the one sided advice they’re given.

    I have some genuine sympathy, but 53 days ago you hadn’t had the accident. In that time, the car’s gone in for an unscheduled, lengthy repair, been assessed, parts ordered, repaired, returned to you, invoiced by the garage, paid to the garage, and invoices presented to the other side for checking (most AMC’s inflate the bills). The insurers have probably had the invoice for a few days at most, if I were a betting man.

    Now, if you can be clearer, perhaps someone here can help?

    Who are you claiming for the repairs against? Your insurer, or the third party?

    Who is representing you for this? An AMC?

    Why do they say there are delays? What have they told you to evidence this? Hire charges? Did they say when they sent the final invoice for payment, and is it disputed?

    Who is representing you for your non vehicle losses? The AMC? Againt whom are you claiming? Your own home insurer or the third party?

    Are you aware you can’t issue more than once, so if someone has issued for a specific amount (the repairs) (and obtained judgement) you’ve lost your chance to claim?

    bonchance
    Free Member

    edit

    Glad you got satisfaction OP, for all the ins co’s tactics – seems a simple case after all – just need to stick it to ’em – papers n all!

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    @Jujuuk68
    Wow loads of interestingly assumptions you’ve made there.

    Basically I didn’t post loads of details because that would be possibly detrimental to my claim!

    I guess what I was ranting/venting about was the total lack of communication by the third party until they were given formal notice of the intention to serve papers. I’m more than aware that you can only present papers once but still feel that having to do so to get a response is a bit rubbish.

    There was an AMC involved but the car took 2 weeks from being picked up to being returned which I thought wasn’t too bad, the replacement car was a similar car (a C-Max) and my car is under 3 years old. The Whyte was new in October 2014 and due to a neck injury has only done 200 miles so is practically new (I know it’s 2nd hand so value drops) the other bikes were new in June 2014. Due to the other drivers negligence my bikes were written off so expecting replacements seems reasonable?

    Anyway all sorted now and hopefully the other driver will pay more attention in the future.

    ebennett
    Full Member

    @Jujuuk68 why so angry? To a lay reader most of what the OP was having a mild rant about seems pretty reasonable!

    OP, glad you got it sorted and the bikes are getting replaced.Can’t imagine being without mine for 2 months!

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    @ebennett yes been hard but I have my HT but the Whyte was my 50th birthday treat and is so much better than my XC focused HT, all good in the end.

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