I’m hearing a lot of buzz at the moment about the Evil The Following. Looks like a really nice playful bike. I’d love to try one out.

My question is why the Whyte T-129 SCR isn’t getting the same attention. On paper at least the Whyte has same chainstay length, similar head-angle (especially if you put a 130mm fork on it). If anything for the UK the Whyte suspension looks much better suited to muddy conditions. But nothing in the press about the Whyte being anything but a fun mile munching XC bike.

What am I missing?

Lot to be said for a lifetime guarantee on the bearings in the UK. The T129 has been out a couple of years and the Evil is new. Test them if poss.

Read some good reviews of the Whyte, Bikeradar one here is pretty glowing, and certainly not just from the perspective of a milemunching XC bike.
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/full-suspension/product/review-whyte-t-129-works-scr-14-48826/

FWIW, it was a couple of geometry niggles that put me off the Whyte- The standover is exceptionally high and Wheelbase pretty long. The fact I couldn’t test the Whyte also put me off at the time, but then I went and ordered an Evil without any chance of a test anyway!

You considered the Transition Smuggler? That’s what I’d be going for if I hadn’t ordered the Evil.

This 120mm rig feels more like a big-hitting 160mm bike on the trail.

There it is.

Pop a 130mm Pike on the front and who knows. Anyone ridden or own either of these yet?

There’s only a few Following in the wild, MTBR has some good early ride reports though….
http://forums.mtbr.com/custom-dh-fr-urban-builders/evil-bikes-following-%96-user-review-946184.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/29-finally-evil-935151-28.html#post11513408

Evil are a brand making a splash in the world stage, Whyte are a relatively small and European ‘only’ based brand (though are probably bigger than Evil).. so aren’t featured by the american’s (mtb website/mag’s). Personally I think Whyte could make a small killing by selling a frame only option world wide, but they don’t sell themselves as a niche brand.

I wished I’d gotten on with the Whyte T-129 (purely a personal suspension issue), so I could have bought a bike for the price of the Evil frame. Instead I’m being tempted into buying one by by my NEW local Evil rep.

The fact I couldn’t test the Whyte also put me off at the time,

The std T-129 or SCR version? Whyte do a pretty damned good job of lending out bikes, and have a test fleet constantly at demo days for you to try.. I’ve ridden a T-129 on a local demo day, on a local shop loan and had a 2nd demo day option, to have gone to, if I’d had the time (& hadn’t decide I didn’t want one).

The std T-129 or SCR version?

SCR, though I was offered the standard one but the two are so different in geometry terms there seemed little point in riding something that wasn’t close to what I actually wanted to buy.

As if by magic….

ENDURO Long Term Test 2015 | The Whyte T-129 SCR Works

Is the geo that different? As far as I’m aware the TT is longer on the SCR (I was surprised to find this out), ok looking the BB is lower and whole wheelbase longer..but generally the geo is the same… it’s the rear end stiffness that supposedly the major improvement.

PS: What do you reckon to the unprotected cable holes on the Evil frame? Look in my eyes.like a recipe for potential cable ‘wear’

Personally I think Whyte could make a small killing by selling a frame only option world wide,

This.

Why the smaller brands dont do this is a mystery to me.

Is it something to do with using catalogue type frames (not saying Whyte are doing this by the way) and there being a clause from the manufacturer about not being able to sell them on as frame only?

Is it a vanity thing, the company only want their frames out there as complete bikes built to their spec?

On American forums they seem to go mad over UK frames, even cheap steel stuff like On-One’s garner loads of attention, they seem to like our trail geometry instead of having another American steep angled 29er shoved down their throats…i dont think you even need a distbutor for this (correct me if i’m wrong), a firm like Whyte could just ship from the UK and operate abroad like Canyon, YT, Rose etc

Are they worried that a frame only option would rob sales from their complete bikes and harm profits?

❓

Well Whyte make a big thing about the inhouse designers (remember Jon Whyte?), and as they were amongst the 1st “fun” geometry/short travel (s/hort CS) 29er, you can hardly suggest they are using an “off the catalogue” options… and the competition are still only now starting to produce alternatives (smuggle/phantom/following/et all)

..but again no, I’ve no idea why they don’t a do a frame only (WW or even in europe) option.

Personally I think Whyte could make a small killing by selling a frame only option world wide,

This is (or at least was) a patent issue I thought? At least the Worldwide part, not the frame part. Specialized had a patent on the Horst which limited where they could sell, same reason the likes of Canyon were EU only. Now the patent is expired, will be interesting to see what happens.

Geometry on paper means shit. You just don’t know till you ride it.

*cough*camber evo*cough*

I had a go on the whyte, it was a normal 129 mind, really was not impressed. It didnt pedal that well whilst not being that capable either.

Took a punt on a camber evo even though it has a “steep” 68.5* HA and *long* 450mm chainstay, it really does not ride the way the numbers say it does. So impressed, so capable, so playful, composed, is not a chore on xc rides. To put it into context the type of rider i am, i’m a life long bmxer who gets bored easy, ie i dont ride bikes to sit in the saddle a twiddle the pedals, i constantly need to be doing something with the bike, if it’s playful enough for me, it’s playful enough for anyone. Im even setting faster times on strava on my camber on some DH stuff than my DH bike.

I guess what im trying to say is dont get too hung on the numbers, i dont know if it’s the same for you OP, but my camber evo is my first 29er FS, if you’ve limited experience of this kind of bike, don’t be too quick to draw assumptions.

My question is why the Whyte T-129 SCR isn’t getting the same attention.

The Whyte gets lots of attention, it won a mag’s “Trailbike of the year” a couple of years ago. But it’s not new, the Evil is getting new product buzz.

There are plenty of other differences between the 2, but that’s the answer to your question I think.

Slap on the wrist for resurrecting an old thread and all that but…

i dont think you even need a distbutor for this (correct me if i’m wrong), a firm like Whyte could just ship from the UK and operate abroad like Canyon, YT, Rose etc

Whyte have plenty of representation outside of the UK. 70% or more of the bikes they make are sold inside the UK to be fair, but I personally know the agent who is in charge of all of Whyte’s export markets. Maybe they could make more of exporting perhaps, but I think the key with Whyte is that it was setup as a UK-centric company, and has mainly focussed on pleasing its home market (and doing it well).

Personally I think Whyte could make a small killing by selling a frame only option world wide, but they don’t sell themselves as a niche brand.

It’s oft heard touted by people in the trade that “Bikes sell, framesets don’t”… In many cases this is correct, but not always. Certainly I think the more you’re spending (so let’s say £3k or above here for arguments sake) people really want to spec their bike themselves. True enough, shops are going to sell more £1500 full sus bikes than they are £3k plus ones, but would it hurt to offer a frameset on its own? Having ridden a Whyte T-129 SCR myself, I’d put a 130mm fork on instead of the 120, I’d run wider rims, a different stem, a flatter bar, a different saddle, different tyres, shorter cranks etc. So buying one off the shelf for me would mean that even though I’d be using the groupset, frame and Reverb from the original spec, I’d still have to chuck a lot of money in and then sell a load of other parts on to get the spec I wanted.

The Evil Following isn’t a cheap frame, for sure… But part of the pleasure of a new bike for me is speccing it up myself so that I know it’s exactly as I want it from the get go.

Geometry on paper means shit. You just don’t know till you ride it.

I understand your sentiment, but by and large, if it looks like shit, smells like shit, tastes like shit then it is… Shit…

If a bike’s geo looks spot on on paper, it’s got to do something drastically wrong to be a let down. All the talk on the other side of the Atlantic is of the Following being a game changer as far as 29er Trail bikes go! I’ve ridden T-129’s and liked them, a lot in fact. But I’ve ordered a Following…

Update…

Evil The Following still on order, but got fed up of waiting after 2 delays, and still potential for it to be delayed further! In the privileged (some say, others tell the truth) position of working in the trade, and ordered a T-129 Works SCR to tide me over…

Only done 2 rides on it so far, but did a good 5hrs on it today and got to properly test it out on some familiar trails.

Criticisms?

-I’d prefer a Rockshox Monarch Rear shock (as fitted to the G-150) over the Fox. I think the Monarch is a bit better controlled on 4 bar bikes, but it’s a very minor point. I’ve already found I need to reach down for the
-Rear tyre clearance isn’t huge, but I’ve got a 2.2″ Conti MK2 in there with reasonable clearance, just don’t expect to fit a 2.5″ tyre in there.
-The OEM stem really is pretty ugly!
-The 21mm internal width rims are narrower than current vogue, the wheels are strong and stiff, just could do with being a bit wider if that bothers you.

And that’s about it… Otherwise, this bike rips! The 5 star review on BikeRadar really is accurate, I may be riding a Medium sized bike compared to their XL, but it’s an absolute weapon of a bike! The short stem, short chainstay, long ETT/Front centre geometry makes sooooooo much sense on this bike. It’s confidence inspiring in a way no other full sus trail bike I’ve ridden so far (I hope the Evil will match it) is. If you want the most flattering, skill compensating bike that your money can buy, this has to be right up there.