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Merida Brass Monkeys

151 posts & 25 voices | Started 2 years ago by DezB | Latest reply from S_Works

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energy gel symposium

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Ti29er - Member

The fastest lap was under 30 minutes!
My 2nd lap was 48, but it's a very different strategy, doing hot flying laps as opposed to when you know you're there for 4:30+hrs. If it had been a single lap as quick as you can, then I'd manage a 42 I guess.
Rather academic since I'm training for 24hr solo at the end of May.

I still need to take on more fuel, particularly in the form of energy bars; I downed 1 gel per lap when I stopped back at the car, but couldn't face much else. Ultimately this would have lead to me bonking and extreme fatigue. There is much still to be done!

I had no idea they were giving out free drinks; can I have mine now?

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

Why would that lead to you bonking? Plenty of energy in gels, stomach's more likely to be an issue over 24 hours, not the lack of energy.

doing hot flying laps as opposed to when you know you're there for 4:30+hrs. If it had been a single lap as quick as you can, then I'd manage a 42 I guess.

George only slowed down to 32 minutes on his 4th lap, hardly a one lap flier then settling down. He also came 3rd at his first attempt at Mayhem Solo, he's a rather handy rider!

Posted 2 years ago #
Gee-Jay - Member

atlaz ... you should be fine to ride the course as often as you like with no dramas.

Posted 2 years ago #
DezB - Member

Winner of the 40+ cat did 7 laps. 7 LAPS! Madness!

Posted 2 years ago #
DezB - Member

One last thing. My pic from PeterPoddy is excellent (yes, even though I'm in it). So if he has one of you - BUY IT

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

Not if you're using up more energy than you're putting in!
I know the winner of the Montane Kielder 100 mile race was consuming 3x gels an hour plus energy bars, every hour, plus an energy drink in his water bottles and so it's something I need to practice, eating more on the move. Yesterday, 30 minutes from the end I was out of strength.
When I got back to the car all I could do was prop myself up and then sit down. I could not speak for about 3 or 4 minutes.

Sorry - I don't know anyone called George. Who is he, Atlaz?

Posted 2 years ago #
allthepies - Member

George Budd - gee on here.

You'll see him up the top in the results of the 2 hr

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

Yep.

And he did Mayhem solo on a gel and a bottle of energy drink a lap, plus one soup and a microwave spag bol IIRC, wasn't doing bars I don't think.

Just because that's what the chap who won Kielder was eating doesn't mean you should be eating it too, different people have different metabolisms etc.

Let's be honest, you're not going to win, you just need to concentrate on plodding on, and working out what food/supplements you need to do that.

I'm not being funny, but 4.5 hours is not a particularly long ride, if you were that much of a wreck after that, I'd be seriously worried.

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

How did the new steed fair njee?

You came past me once that I know of, and said "Hi" - or at least I think it was you (I was fixing a new inner tube by the far side of the reservoir) but since you did 3 laps, you must have passed me a 2nd time.

One by product of having a large flint slice open your tyre, spewing out the tubeless gunk, is that the first you use your back brake you realise your rear rotor is coated in slippery gunk, thus rendering your rear brake completely useless! It gave me quite a surprise!

Not sure that completing 5 laps and ending up 46 out of 59 in the vet's 4hr was technically last, but it's a matter of perspective I guess. I was the last of those who managed 5 laps, in the same way that Simon Lewington came last with his 7 laps (to those who'd ridden 7 laps but faster than him). I don't think he'd consider himself to be last somehow!

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

Aye that was me, by the lake, I realised it was you and give you a 'bad luck Tim'. Bike was surprisingly nice, much more comfortable than I'd expected.

Yes I've been a victim of the 'crap on the rotor affecting braking' before. I managed it with an errant gel.

Posted 2 years ago #
atlaz - Member

Me, 32 minutes? I was closer to 1hr 32minutes

Posted 2 years ago #
JamesP - Member

The general rule of thumb is that your body will only be able to process about 1gram of carbohydrate per 1kg of body mass per hour. So if you are 70kgs you can only process 70grams of carbs per hour. Anything in excess of this will be wasted and IME sits in your stomache and makes you feel decidedly ropey.

How you get your carbs is up to you but a combination of complex and simple carbs usually makes most sense. A gel has approximately (depending on brand) 30grams of carbs. So for a 70kg person they would be looking to make up the 40grams elsewhere. Energy drinks are usually the easiest way of doing so. Over 24hours however, I would use gels, bars, energy drinks and then whatever you feel like eating. At some point you will get sick of sweet foods and you'll be thankful then.

IME a strategy of just stuffing yourself with gels and energy drink is not a good one. Some consideration on how much you need (and can) consume will make things more tolerable.

Posted 2 years ago #
JamesP - Member

Njee - got there before me

Posted 2 years ago #
PeterPoddy - Member

The whole course open to the public then?

Yup. And a lot more besides, probably twice as much again in that area alone, actually. Maybe more. I live in Farnborough and I can ride from my house (3 road miles to the trails) and do a 20 mile loop, including some of those trails, that only touches roads to cross them: So 99.999% offroad then!

And you wonder why I avoid Swinley like that plague?

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

Aye, but you got the sciency bit in there!

When I did the 12 hour solo at 24/12, I did about 12 Torq gels, a tub of mini muffins, 2 tubes of Jaffa Cakes, a few Torq bars, a couple of Snickers, some jelly babies, a few bottles of High 5 and several caffeinated Zym tablets. I got it right in that I never had cramp, and posted my fastest laps towards the end of the race, I got it wrong in that I finished with loads of energy left and feeling I should've gone harder.

At the end of the day, it's going to be trial and error!

Posted 2 years ago #
Gee-Jay - Member

Peterpoddy +1 (other than the living in Farnborough bit, I'm in Fleeeeeet)

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

I appreciate this.
Yesterday was a mere 4hrs+, so it was always going to be ridden at a quicker pace than a 12 or 24hr ride.
We did Bonty Pairs in 2009, came 10th I think, plus pairs in the Set2Rise but I managed to feeding / energy / rest / effort balance quite effectively.

So for the event in May, for which I have 100+ days in which still to train, I am in a far better place this time this year than I was last year, so the Brass Monkey was no more than good training, seeing how the bike behaved, reminding myself about cramp (!) and feeding in particular. Plus I must sort out my front mech' as having no steep, granny-ring hills locally it's something I was unaware of.

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

I tried Elete water in High 5 yesterday for the first time. Whilst I wasn't trying particularly hard, I suspect I would've cramped without any supplement, I always used to cramp like clockwork while racing.

I'd recommend trying that, just add a few drops (literally) to whatever you drink, doesn't affect the taste, so you don't have to worry about a different taste.

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

The High5 or the Elete - which I'm not familiar with.
Cramp's a sod - plenty of people here report cramping up.
On Meridas, I chew salt sachets from McD's - seems to work, if a little difficult to manage!

+1 H4H contribution too.

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

Sorry, the Elete water.

You can add it to anything you want, from water to squash or your choice of energy drink (I find High 5 most palatable) to provide electrolytes.

Clicky

Posted 2 years ago #
atlaz - Member

PP - Swinley is fine for a quick blast but I think the course yesterday, once I've got my bearings will be good for a bit more of a workout and longer rides (I'm not into sessioning so much). I noticed a lot of built trails cutting across the stuff we were riding that should be worth an explore.

On the subject of cramp, I'm going to take a bottle for whenever I race next as I have a can of powdered supplement for electrolyte replacement I used for one of those "standing around in a hot field for hours in summer" type sports.

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

Ta.
I'll try it; ordered it just now - they do like their web pages in the transaction don't they!
Quite a claim
Eliminates cramp . Enhances energy.

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

I'm wary of any 'isotonic' product that claims to provide electrolytes, as they just don't work for me. Tried High 5, Torq, Maxim and Power Bar, none have had any effect on cramp, Zym or Nuun effervescent tabs are good, but then you don't get any carbohydrates so need to up your intake of gels/bars, or this Elete water seems good.

Posted 2 years ago #
JamesP - Member

The Elete stuff is good you can't taste it at all. High 5 source is nice but very sticky. By day 3 or the Tour of Wessex last year I could barely get my bottle out of the cage - stuck fast with High 5.

Speaking of getting fuelling wrong. I rode La Marmotte last year and in my infinite wisdom used High 5 Energy Source Extreme (i.e. with caffeine) and Torq Guarana gels. 8hrs 43 mins from the start I crossed the line having consumed 10 torq gels and 8 bottles of High 5. The problem was I was so pumped full of caffeine I couldn't think straight or sit still. It took me 30 mins to translate the fact that D'Or meant I'd got a gold standard time.

I think the trick with cafeine is to use it sparingly. The Torq gels are brilliant but only every couple of hours - not every gel.

Posted 2 years ago #
JamesP - Member

Btw, for 12 and 24 hour races you should consider Hammer Nutrition HEED. Very light on the palate and easy to stomache. Just started to become available over here now - its a US product. Its going to be my drink of choice for Mayhem and 24:12.

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

Whilst I find High 5 very easy to drink, but couldn't comprehend drinking SIS, which is truly revolting IMO, so basically you just need to try lots of different drinks to see what you like!

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

Thanks.
I have the Zimm and now the one njee mentioned.
What I found at Bonty was the sweat 'n' sour chicken with rice from the canteen went down a treat!
Whislt my oppo' was puking up Smash (never again he swears!) I was feeling great at 3am. My 2x dogs liked the Smash however!
As you say, go easy on the caffine gels. The SIS ones are vile but are over and done with in 10 seconds.
Torq stuff generally seems very good.
Cheers for the advice from the front.

PS - have you used this stuff, which was being handed out at the Summer Polaris (7hrs on the Saturday, 5hrs on the Sunday over the Peaks)?

"CNP's Pro Energy Max Gel has been developed in conjunction with British Cycling and the Sky Pro Cycling Team and is used by their riders.
Pro Energy Max Gel can be used by cyclists of any level to give a boost during their ride."

Posted 2 years ago #
JamesP - Member

Not seen it. There seens to plenty of new entrants to the energy foods market. Personally I am not sure about Pro Slam - wtf

Posted 2 years ago #
dobo - Member

excellent course, only rode one complete lap though as i was cursed with punctures... i had 3, 1 in the front side wall which sealed but required several stops, then got double whammy on the rear 2 miles in on the second lap, again in the sidewall, not a snake bite though, so called it a day and walked back.
I deliberately did not walk through the finish line when i came back as i took a short cut or 2 but they must have spotted me and recorded my time for the 2nd lap hehe thanks must have walked 2 miles atleast..
very frustrating though as i felt pretty good after 1st lap as i didnt go out to fast due to congestion on the course.

thanks to those that offered me a tube and a chat, and to thoose that told me to mtfu and get back on my bike lol

Posted 2 years ago #
nicks - Member

great course, really good day out riding!

6 laps, 7 energy gels, 3 mule bars and 2.5 bottles of electrolyte

thanks to Si and the army team !!

my dads pictures here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23318875@N02/collections/72157606984867287/

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

It was interesting doing that event, just to witness what Steve Heading can actually do!
It's all well racing 'round and 'round a loop, but add in map reading across the Paek District and time / distance management, and then see how many of the points he visited in the same time frame. Simply awesome!

They were one of the sponsors and having chatted to them and received some of the products, it seemed pretty good and effective. On the last day, I was about 25 seconds inside the 5hr cut-off time. Boy! Did I have to run-for-home in that last hour, as hard an hour as I've ever had on a bike! I still makes me smile.

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

Huh?

Posted 2 years ago #
chakaping - Member

nicks - your dad's photos are excellent

Posted 2 years ago #
PeterPoddy - Member

but I think the course yesterday, once I've got my bearings will be good for a bit more of a workout and longer rides

Oh yes. That's the biggest hill in these parts!

Anyone else want a photo?
Email me your race number (in profile) and I'll have a look see if I've got you. £2 a pic, all money to Help for Heros.

Posted 2 years ago #
chakaping - Member

Did anybody else see the poor lonely Eggbeater pedal that had obviously fallen off of somebody's bike on the heath bit around the 5 or 6 mile mark?

Somebody must have had one sore leg yesterday, if they went on and finished without it.

Posted 2 years ago #