New area director started a while back, previous one “left for new opportunities” having made a right balls up of sales and recruitment.

New one seems more of the same, checked off flashy laptop, phone, invites to industry seminars and never seen again apart from the odd robot email to attempt to prove he’s still doing things.

He wants to have a team meeting and so as not to affect the billing hours to customers we don’t have thanks to the last director, he wants it out of hours – potentially up to 9pm.

Food will be provided but given the location and lack of catering, he’s already suggested ordering in takeaway.

Normally I wouldn’t be too bothered – I do on call support work. Out of hours from time to time is fairly normal. This meeting is really irritating, it’s not being classed as paid work so no overtime for anyone.

I suspect there’s nothing to do but get on with it but part of me wonders if there’s some level of unreasonable employer request in there. If nothing else it’s a kick in the slats to get of my backside and jump ship before this one sinks.

Certainly worth raising the point with him to make sure he is aware of it.

He may reply with ‘I know but I’m expecting you to come’ or he may reply with ‘Sorry didn’t realise, I’ll square it away’.

You know what to do.

if there’s some level of unreasonable employer request in there

I’m guessing your contract, assuming you have one, will have some comment about occasionally having to work beyond normal contracted hours. I know mine does.

Sounds like a one-off and an opportunity to really build some synergies. It’s low hanging fruit for you so you should really attend.

That, and we don’t get overtime at all, so no sympathy there.

It’s a company meeting so therefore should be paid for by the company in my view. I’d not want to attend out of hours for gratis just because it’ll cost the company a few quid.

Tell him you’re busy flossing the cat.

Just tell him you’re not happy with the meeting at that time, but if it’s a one off and he sorts the coke and hookers…….

Seriously though, just say something. No point just stewing.

There’s always a bit of give and take but I’d say scheduling a meeting out of hours just so they don’t have to pay you is frankly taking the pee.

That, and we don’t get overtime at all, so no sympathy there

^^This – no overtime for me when I’m getting up in the middle of the night to fly off somewhere.
Suck it up Princess. ;o)

sounds like a t+sspot to me.

There’s a disconnect between senior managers and the rest of us here. At a certain point you get offered a company car allowance and asked to sign and overtime waiver, basically you’re paid more to do more hours.

They can’t see why the rest of us don’t share their enthusiasm for doing unpaid overtime on unbillable crap.

That, and we don’t get overtime at all, so no sympathy there

Irrelevant, if you don’t get paid overtime but expected to work it anyway then you’re presumably paid more to compensate for that flexibility. If you’re not then why haven’t you moved to one that pays overtime, or a less well paid one that doesn’t expect extra hours?

If this is the biggest problem you face at work I reckon you’re doing alright.

Go, smile and play the game.

Suck it up Princess. ;o)

Need a lottery win this weekend to do a proper princess flounce 🙂

Not too stressed personally as I live fairly close to work, more curious. More irritated at the takeout thing. Could at least get some decent catering done.

It will be interesting if it goes ahead, support from colleagues has been less than supportive and not very polite in some cases.

I personally would go if it was out of my contracted hours.

Normally I wouldn’t be too bothered – I do on call support work. Out of hours from time to time is fairly normal. This meeting is really irritating, it’s not being classed as paid work so no overtime for anyone.

You normally get paid overtime if you do support? You’re not getting paid for this, it’s not classed as paid work, therefore it’s not work and I can’t see why there’s any obligation for you to attend.

So who benefits from the team meeting? Whoever that is should be paying for it – if he thinks nobody should be paying, then by extension he thinks it benefits nobody and hence there’s actually no point to it.

By the time my employer started pulling stunts like that I had kids – sorry got to pick them up, bye, see you tomorrow.

Classic ‘let’s see who is really committed to the company’ politics.

What would TJ have said?

Union!!

What’s in it for him getting you all to do unpaid overtime? Also why does everyone seem so willing to give their time away for free nowadays?
I wonder how much better state the economy would be in if all the unpaid overtime was paid to employees and the treasury collected the tax on it?

In my last job, which I did for eight years, there was a annual, mandatory divisional meeting that took all day and often involved hours of travelling as the venue was normally in the South East.

It was completely unpaid and split into a morning of updates followed by an afternoon of team building. I did not mind the former as there was some useful information to be gleaned but the team building was just lame. If it had been in work time fair enough but getting us to sing the company anthem in our own time was not great. One year a third of the people that attended the morning just left at lunchtime and the divisional director threw a hilarious, hissy fit about this at the closing meeting which was a source of great amusement to all present.

After this I just manipulated customer work to make sure that I always had some urgent work to do on the Saturday of the meeting.

My view is that, if you do a professional job with a group of colleagues who are difficult to get in one place during working hours, then it is acceptable to have a couple of out of hours meetings a year on an unpaid basis as long as adequate notice is given. However the meeting content needs to be concise and relevant. Wasting people’s personal time on BS crap is not on.

I think you should go with an open mind. At least it is an evening rather than weekend and you are getting fed!

invites to industry seminars and never seen again apart from the odd robot email to attempt to prove he’s still doing things.

So he’s called a meeting in case you forgot what he looked like.
When he touches your base,sneak in a few awkward questions 😉

I’d be concerned this could be a potential “bad news” meeting given what you’ve said about client losses etc, and keeping it out of normal hours may be a well intentioned but misguided attempt to save indignity of people receiving bad news.

Do you want to risk marking your card by being “that guy” who’s belligerent and doesn’t play ball for a one off meeting in what sounds like difficult times?

I’d say go along.

If it was me and I wasn’t on call that day, I’d be very busy at home. Unless there was a huge spread and lashings of booze of course.

He doesn’t want to affect potential billing hours to clients.

That’s sort of insulting. It says he’d rather shag the moral/drag people out of office hours to save exactly how much? Penny pinch approach. Where’s his big ideas, is he experienced enough for the job?

It’s the unpaid bit that I don’t get. If it’s for the good of the business, then the business should pay you for it. If you’re salaried and it’s an expectation then you’re already paid for it I suppose, but it would be a no from me, as m on an hourly rate.

We had out of hours (weekend) meetings for one project where many people were too busy during the week to find a time slot. I went along with it (wanted to be in the project) but made sure I got my share of time off in lieu after!

Go to the meeting in case its actualy a good meeting. I would personally make sure that you absolutely have to be somewhere at, say , 8pm. Ring or Email the guy beforehand , arive early and remind him that you have no problem with staying , but you will be out the door at 1959.
That way the meeting should flow and progress at a sensible speed without procrastination.

it’s not being classed as paid work so no overtime for anyone

Why would anyone work for free? Time and a half or chuff off, you’re not a charity and I’m not doing this as a hobby. The whole raison d’etre of working is to earn money.

“Is it okay if I phone a client and say we’ll do half a day of work free?”

“No? Right, see you in the morning”

And if that didn’t work I’d lay in at the meeting.

Normally al you have to do is get the ball rolling and someone else will get stuck and you can sit back and relax.

I’ve just done the same thing, but on a Saturday in Milton Keynes. It was good to get as much of our team together in one room as we could as it doesn’t happen that often and it was a useful and productive day.

sometimes you just have to suck it up really.

allan23 – Member

it’s not being classed as paid work

What on earth is it then?

I had an old boss who was mental with stuff like this, she’d arbitrarily declare things to be not paid work. So for instance- opening a safe on a 10 minute time delay, “That’s not work, that’s what you do in preparation for work, like your commute” The sort of total illogic that’s really hard to fight with sense.

Personally, I would have a prior commitment. If asked, a personal matter.

If you want me to work, pay me. If you want loyalty, get a dog.

Do you need a reference from him for your next job?

In a job I briefly had before my firing“parting ways” I deeply annoyed my boss by twice in a row having other plans (the last time, an event my wife had got us tickets for, before I’d even interviewed there) when his unpaid evening team meetings happened.

At the current place, they’re happy to take the hit for all the technical staff (many of whom are out with clients billing £lots/day) to get together every 6 weeks or so, catch up with what we’re all up to, present stuff to each other to stay up to date or share info. Late start and early finish as some people have to travel quite a way to get in. Once a year we do the same but across the company, and then we only have a company update for a couple of hours then go and do something fun.

In your shoes, I’d agree with the above – find a reason to be out of the door at a certain time to speed things along. If it was a regular thing I’d be getting my excuses lined up.

I left house at 6:30am testerday, got home at 9:10pm.
I do tjis. It’s called work.
I don’t get overtime. I get some time in lieu, when I can fit it in.
I get paid bobbins, working for a charity.

Man up.

As a one off, just do it.
My one concern is a new manager ‘fiddling’ a system already, just in the door.

Ring him up at htree the following morning to request a change to the minutes

Why do people seem so proud that they get mugged off by their employers?

Wondering how many of the responses fit with the commonly suggested STW Audi/Woodburner/Santa Cruz middle management demographic … 🙂

Seems to be a thread of “I’ve got a shit employer, you should too”