Aracer - Nice, see what you did there, but I just can't help myself.
gonefishin - as I responded to Cougar, my questions were not aimed specifically at MMR, but at vaccines in general. Have those who are so pro-vaccine fully engaged with all the issues surrounding vaccines before makein their decisions?
My comments about Bubonic Plague and Scarlet Fever refer to the fact that these diseases died out without any medical intervention from humans. There is evidence to suggest that smallpox was already declining significantly before the vaccine was introduced.
My comment on the Ukraine comes directly from an HPA recommendation that all visitors to there have MMR before they go, so if there is any racism blame the HPA, not me.
Whilst it is undeniable that those things (with the exception of strengthening the gene pool!) will have helped the reduce the incidence of the disease they are not responsible for its eradication. Only the vaccine can ultimately do this.
Can you back that assertion up with hard and fast evidence? I believe the answer is no. There is no possible way to tell whether vaccines or other factors are the primary reason for the decline in disease.
Molgrips - to reiterate what I've tried to articulate already. The first MMR jab is generally given at 12-13 months. The second is given at 3-5 years. MMR is not claimed to be fully effective until the second jab has been given. Therefore, every single child under 3, and a significant proportion of under 5s, is at risk of contracting and transmitting the disease. Not just the ones who's parents choose not to vaccinate, but every single child who has not had two MMR jabs, for whatever reason.
You've got evidence that vaccinations are worse than the diseases? Can you share some?
I know that wasn't aimed at me, and my googlefu is weak at this time of night, however a study conducted in Denmark suggests that for every 1000 MMR jabs, 2 children will suffer from febrile seizures. Just off the top of my head, with regards to the HPV vaccine, there are some pretty unpleasant side effects, and there have been a few well documented occurences of breathing difficulties leading to death.