Hi,

Just looking at servicing my Mattoc Pro forks for the first time but I am struggling with a few things. Firstly is the price of the Mattoc tool kit, consisting of 2 sockets and a modified cassette tool for £42ish! Is there any way of purchasing/ modifying non-Manitou products that will do the same thing? Surely 2 sockets and a cassette tool shouldn’t be any more than £10 or so? Or do I just need to suck it up! Long term I appreciate that they will pay for themselves but the initial outlay seems incredibly high for what they are.

Also, does anyone know where i can get the specified Motorex semi bath oil (that has it in stock) or the Slickoleum grease? Is SRAM butter the same thing?

Thanks in advance.

Off hand I think a park fr 5c gets the bottom of the left stanction undone to get to the inside of the air shaft.That’s by removing the rubber bumper first off the air shaft rod then pushing it up into the leg as far as it will go so the tool goes far enough up to engage the splines.

The top air cap is simple enough. Either use a decent quality adjustable and care or appropriate size socket.

The bottom air side footnut can be undone by inserting an Allen key into the poppet valve (either 4 or 5 mm, can’t remember off hand). I wouldn’t want to use this method too many times though as it would be fairly easy to round it off,the proper tools do make it easier and safer, especially the thin walled socket for tightening / undoing of the air side footnut as there’s always pressure on the spring in the poppet valve pushing the Allen key out. Also pushing the Allen key into the footnut/poppet pushes the air shaft away from the threads so you end up having to push the top of the air shaft back down from the top of the crown to engage the threads to tighten it (I used a broom handle!). It’s not impossible but it is a faff.

I guess it would be possible to machine a socket down to fit. There’s a New Zealand company who sell one on its own too but it’s still not cheap by the time you add shipping and possible duty charges on top. That’s why I bought the full kit.
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/modified-8-mm-socket-to-fit-manitou-mattoc-magnum-2015-later.html

As for fluids, I used rockshox 0w30 for the lowers and grease I used stendec easy glide fork grease, both of which have been fine.

If you are near Huddersfield you are welcome to borrow the tools and I hope the above makes sense!

and remember that the footnut / bolt at the bottom of the lowers undo the ‘wrong way’ as they are being threaded in from the indide of the leg.

I made all my own tools turned down a socket and hacksawed then filed a locking tool for the travel change (didn’t even milli it)

oil I got from the local online service place (mick Gardner) its called plush or something like that

Simonhuscroft and mickmcd thank you for the advice. Unfortunately i am a long way from Huddersfield but thank you for the offer of the tools, very generous of you.

How easy is it to make the reduced diameter socket without a mill or lathe? Or would i be better to take it somewhere to do that bit. I think the locking tool is likely to be the easiest (assuming it is an ordinary locking tool with a section cut out of it). The ground socket should be relatively straight forward, though may not be as essential as the other two sockets.

If you send me your address I will send you the socket I have a machine shop , takes 5 minutes to make a spare

I looked at milling the slot , would have taken longer to mill it than hacksaw and file and yup it was a standard cheapie HG lock ring tool ( some are hardened)

It’s been confirmed by Manitou on other forums that the lower oil is just standard engine oil, can’t remember the weight off hand but if you email me (in profile) I’ll check when I get home.

I had the same problem with the thin wall socket. I ended up turning one down using a drill and a dremel. I wouldn’t recommend doing it this way as it takes a while but if you’re stuck it can be done and it works OK.

I’ll probably do a DIY job on a cassette tool when I come to do a full service too.

The slot in the cassette tool isn’t essential. Just remove the rubber bumper from the air shaft. It just comes off. Then the shaft inserts far enough to get the cassette tool seated. Just remember to put it back on once you are done.

I’d say if you have the time make your own, I bought my forks 2nd hand and they came supplied with the tools, the split lock ring nut tool was rubbish. Fortunately for me a support guy from Germany – Florian arranged for a replacement to be sent out. The replacement was a chopped park tool.

If you are going to cut up a lock ring tool, pick one with decent splines with good square edges.

If anyone has more info on the oil to use or a suitable substitute to the Motorex stuff that’d be fantastic.

Manitou site call for the following – Semi-bath Oil, 5/40w Synthetic Oil – Manitou part number 85-0023

Hi, if you are near Hemel Hempstead you are welcome to borrow my Mattoc tool kit Or I’m happy to post it to you.

Just pay pal over £42 as a deposit and I’ll refund it back to you on return of the tools (last weeks thread about helping strangers on the internet has made me a little more weary about just leading it to anyone).

Just checked my order history and I bought 5w/40 synthetic engine oil for the bath oil.

More info here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/semi-bath-lube-%3D-motor-oil-19488.html

Awesome, thank you psycorp.

Mickmcd, thank you for your very kind offer. I sent you a PM and email.

Thanks for the offer jairjaj but will pass on it at this time, but a good idea for the deposit given the recent discussions.

Any Oil guru’s know how different 5w40 and 5w30 is?

The better half’s car runs on 5w30 so i have a 4 Liter bottle of Castrol Edge Synthetic oil in the garage that is not going to miss a few ml being taken out of it.

I believe the second weight number refers to the viscosity if the oil at high temperatures, 40 being thicker than 30.

For our purposes this obviously doesn’t matter as I doubt forks will ever get hot enough to change the oil viscosity much, so the 5w is probably the important part.

I think i have been a bit thick regarding the oil. I thought there was an oil product called semi-bath but just realised the forks have a semi-bath that requires oil. Correct so far?

Having read the Manitou manuals they seem to spec a 5w oil, which is where, i believe, the Motorex Racing Fork 5W oil comes in (not Motorex Semi-bath oil, which is what I originally thought).

I thought that the forks also required a second type of oil but i now can’t find any mention of this so suspect i made it up!

So, on the basis of requiring a 5w oil, most people use what they have to hand: synthetic engine oil that is 5w spec (5w30 or 5w40 mostly).

Does that sound about right?

Re the grease, i am fed up with reading round this and i am going to use the Prep M grease that i have already got, unless someone can tell me why that is a bad idea and what other grease i must use instead.

Thank you all for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

Re the grease – I’ll be using Slick Honey but presume Prep M would also do. Have the Mattocs off the bike just need to find time now! I have the upgraded air piston head to fit and the oil service to do. Anybody know if there are crush washers to replace like Rockshox?

The 5w oil goes into the lowers before you bolt in the spring and damper shafts. It lubricates the bushings. Iirc between 8 and 15ml is recommended per leg. I went with 15.

There is also oil in the damper for rebound and compression damping. This will be a different spec but I haven’t looked it up yet as I’ve not had the damper apart.

If you Google “mattoc teardown instructions” there is a good step by step guide on the web which has more info on oil and grease etc.

According to a (the?) teardown, 3cc of semi-bath is recommended for the top of the air side and not 5w. The oil in the damper is the 5w oil and the oil in the legs appears to be this mysterious “semi-bath” oil. Now i am confused!

I might just add 5w oil everywhere and be done with it!

I have discovered over the years that these quick jobs that will only take an hour seem to take me all day! All part of the fun of it of course!

They do use 2 types of oil if you are changing the damping fluid too.

If it’s a simple lower leg service it’s just the semi bath oil which you need. 3cc is the amount which you put on top of the air piston head. 3ml basically so just a touch. And that’s of the Semi bath oil. And I think it’s between 7-15ml in the lowers depending what you read. I used 10ml.
Semi bath oil is simply for lubrication. It’s thicker to help it stay where it’s needed rather than all slopping into the bottom of the legs. Motorex semi bath or 5w40 fully synthetic is what’s recommended. I had a litre of rockshox 0w30 which is used for pike lowers so just used that. It’s fully synthetic, fairly thick and slippery and does the job.

If you are changing the damping fluid you need to be more careful about getting the correct weight / make of suspension fluid. The viscosity of the fluid changes how fast the oil flows through the damping circuits so changes how the forks damping feels. And different oil manufacturers weights can differ by a fair bit. So motorex 5 wt might be the same as maxima 10 wt.

I think manitou recommend motorex 5wt for the damper fluid.

So this if you feel like the damping fluid needs changing (you don’t have to even touch it if it’s just to do a lower service or change the travel as it’s enclosed in the upper leg of the damping side):

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=view&n=470&g=1272868&p=1272863&d=124&c=4&l=2&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Fork%20Oil&gclid=CNHF7tCmtNMCFZIW0wodEMMPxA

And if you can find it anywhere this for the lowers:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/motorex-semi-bath-fork-oil/rp-prod130301

Or any 5w40 fully synthetic motor oil.

Simonhuscroft, thank you. I think I am going round in circles as i can see this Motorex Semi-bath oil on CRC and a very few other sites but they are all out of stock. I have contacted a few people online without any success so far, including the importers of the Mattoc, who referred me back to the Manitou website and told me to use the spec of oil stated.

So if i use the synthetic 5w30 that i have in the lower legs and at the top of the air piston. I can then use the Motorex 5w in the damper, if required.

Yeah. The motorex 5w fork oil is for the damper.

The 5w40 is different. I think from reading the mtb forum motorex supergliss 100k is a good alternative if you are bothered for using motorex. It’s not cheap though and hard to find here (can be ordered from bike discount in Germany). I wouldn’t get too hung up about the lower oil. As long as it’s fully synthetic.

I’m sure as long as the 5w30 you have is fully synthetic it will be fine.

@Roswell, this all confused me a little at first as well but i have come to the same conclusion as @simonhuscroft. I have fully synthetic Castrol Edge (5w30 as i already have it for the better half’s car) that will go in the lowers at the weekend when i pull them and change the top cap for the IRT unit. If you are buying oil, a liter of fully synthetic Castrol Magnatex 5w40 is about £9 in ASDA.

If i service the damper unit which is in the upper of the left hand leg as you look at them from the front then i have some 5wt Motoul shock oil i’ll use for that.

Think they suggest just grease on top of/around the air piston now.