• This topic has 35 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 13 years ago by rob2.
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  • Mac Buying Advice Needed
  • Shibboleth
    Free Member

    I know there are a fair few Mac users on here, so I thought I'd pick a few brains. I'm using a 2.3GHz dual processor G5 with a 21" studio monitor which has given me several years of faultless service.

    I'm after replacing it as it's getting a bit long in the tooth and is bound to go wrong sooner or later. Also, I run OSX 10.4.8 and I'm loath to upgrade to a newer systemon this Mac due to compatibility problems, so I'll more than likely keep this one as it is and put the latest software versions on the new one.

    I work mostly in Adobe CS2 at the mo, so will also be investing in CS4 or 5.

    iMacs look quite tempting nowadays, but not sure about putting all my eggs (monitor and CPU) in one basket so to speak. Downtime costs money, and at least with a normal setup, monitor can easily be swapped if it fails etc.

    So, any pointers for the Mac and a good 21"+ monitor for graphics work? Any help would be appreciated because whilst I work on these things day in, day out, I know funk-all about them and don't keep up to date with what's out there.

    Cheers!

    edsbike
    Free Member

    Macbook Pro with an external monitor?
    iMac with an extra monitor?
    If not then it would have to be a Mac Pro, and they're quite pricey.

    Shibboleth
    Free Member

    I prefer the idea of the Mac Pro for reliability and servicability reasons etc. Budget isn't a major factor, though I don't want to spend money on something unreliable or unnecessary. Which is why I'm asking for monitor advice – the Mac ones, whilst lovely, aren't good value at all…

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    CaptJon
    Free Member

    I've got the 24" Apple cinema display on my work computer… well, IT have it because it stopped working after i moved it (not an uncommon problem apparently). When it was working it was incredible. I'm currently using a Sumsung 24 HD screen which is also pretty nice, not quite as good as the apple one, but it cost £400 less. I got it from Novatech

    As for iMac (old one) vs Mac Pro. I've got both, but the Pro is at work and i didn't have to pay for it. If it were my money i'd only go for the Pro over the iMac (with upgraded RAM) if i were doing video editing still. In fact, that is exactly what i'm about to do.

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    for CS work then the 6core mac pro is the one to go for as processor speed not cores makes this one faster than the 8 or 12 core models.
    i would look at eizo monitor like this one:
    http://www.nativedigital.co.uk/shop/product.php/801/eizo-s2233w—22–widescreen—black

    with the pro you are future proofing yourself for another 5 years as it's easily expandable/upgradable. don't buythe ram from apple get it from somewhere like crucial (samsung have just announced overproduction so expect prices to fall)

    if you go down the macbook pro route you can get an esata card to run a back-up and scratch disk for CS or there is a kit available to turn the supadrive slot into an SSD slot for back-up/scratch.

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    plenty of info here on speccing your mac for CS.

    http://macperformanceguide.com/index.html

    Shibboleth
    Free Member

    MrSmith, that's awesome advice… I've no idea what it all means, but that's why it's so awesome! Makes a bit of sense though.

    I'll print off all the info on that blog and see if I can get my head around it.

    Are Eizo monitors good? Never heard of them before, look good VFM though. What are Lacie like? Last time I kitted up they seemed to be highly rated…

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    Are Eizo monitors good?

    yes. the CG range are the best with their inbuilt hardware calibration that bypasses the graphics card but they are not cheap (i have a CG243W and it's fantastic for retouching/photo processing). they offer good VFM further down the range.

    Shibboleth
    Free Member

    Where's cheapest to look for Mac Pros? I've used Cancom in the past…

    M6TTF
    Free Member

    http://www.applemac.biz are good on price

    flamejob
    Free Member

    We have moved from Mac Pros in our office and only have 2 left.

    We figure that all in all you get an industry best monitor and a pretty freaking fast machine if you buy a 27" iMac, so we did. The all eggs in one basket scenario; you would probably have spare cash for a MacBook too.

    Mac Pros are really for the realm of video editors and people using software that can take advantage of a large number of cores.

    Personally I run a 15" MacBook Pro (with the Kick Ass 512 graphics card) and a LED cinema display because I work from home and go to the office in the UK every 2 weeks.


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    Drac
    Full Member

    If you have a friend or family who work for the NHS ask them to check prices for you as we get some discount.

    Jamie
    Free Member

    Needs more Macs.

    IA
    Full Member

    Worth a read:
    http://www.marco.org/868606627

    I'd recommend the SSD option on the iMac if you have the cash to spare, makes a HUGE difference.

    Basically for the price of a base mac pro you can get an iMac 27 with a SSD, which will be much faster.

    For the price of a mac pro and a monitor to match the imac you can get the iMac 27, SSD and a Macbook for when you need to be out and about.

    Shibboleth
    Free Member

    How do the iMacs perform with CS4 etc? And wouldn't a Pro offer far more upgradability and reliability?

    Which iMac is worth looking at?

    Ta!

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    Mac Pros are really for the realm of video editors and people using software that can take advantage of a large number of cores.

    or those that need a better quality screen, fast storage (lots of it) and a scratch disk.

    not all programs use lots of cores efficiently which is why mghz and fast in/out plus reasonable ram (8-16gb) works for photoshop. the 12 core machines are actually slower. but for compressor and a few other video apps they are faster.

    the imacs are fast but it depends if you don't mind sitting in front of a reflective screen that's high contrast with a smaller colour gamut.

    plenty of designers use them though but then they usually whack the monitor on full brightness, don't calibrate and leave it up to the printers to sort the colour out 🙂

    Shibboleth
    Free Member

    Would a quad core Mac Pro with the Eizo monitor mentioned earlier be a good compromise for CS4 applications, Quark etc?

    And what level of RAM would I need? I'm assuming it's better to by the mac with the bear minimum and upgrade from elsewhere…

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    it wouldn't be a compromise 🙂
    if you have 4 ram slots in a 4-6 core machine then 8-12-16gb will be enough for large files. just don't buy the ram from apple.
    a scratch disk would be beneficial if your files you work on are big (1-2gb).
    either a partition on another drive that is unlikely to be used at the same time, i use a partition on a mirrored back-up. or you could use a small ssd or a WD raptor in one of the slots. there is even a device for mounting some 2.5in drives where the second superdrive slot is which utilises 2 e-sata connections on the motherboard)

    there is plenty of info on the link i gave above.
    personally i'm going to steer clear of SSD's for a bit. OSX doesn't implement 'trim' plus a fast small raptor drive is comparatively cheap.

    you could use one as a main drive but it will just speed up boot time, and that's something you do only once a day.

    Shibboleth
    Free Member

    Thanks very much for all this MrSmith, it's very helpful. After having a look at the link you posted and some prices, I'm thinking a Quad core Pro and spend a bit more on the monitor will be the best course of action.

    I think I paid bout 1200 quid for this 21" Cinema Display when they first came out, so some of those Eizo monitors look pretty good value.

    And I'm used to a 2.3GhZ dual core, so a more modern Quad will be a big performance improvement.
    And I think I'll have a go at pimping it up with a scratch disk etc.

    Thanks again!

    flamejob
    Free Member

    For the price of a mac pro and a monitor to match the imac you can get the iMac 27, SSD and a Macbook for when you need to be out and about.

    Exactly my point

    The whole glossy screen 'debate' is such a dead end street, unless you monitor faces a window… which would affect a dull flat monitor anyway. I live in a sunny country and (as you can see) my desk is next to glazed floor to ceiling doors.

    If the OP is that worried about exact colour calibration then I don't think he would be posting.

    @Jamie There is only one in the pic 🙂

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    don't forget to budget £120 for a spyder3 or an eye-one display2 to calibrate your screen with.
    pointless to have a decent screen and not to calibrate it properly.
    (twiddling the sliders until it looks o.k is not calibrating)

    zerolight
    Free Member

    I've not read all the other posts on this subject, so don't shoot me if I'm repeating or contradicting somebody. I have one of the new 27" iMacs, and it's a really great machine. I can't fault it. I went all out for the quad core, 8 threaded job.

    The great thing with iMacs is that they hold their value well. It's the fact that you can't upgrade that does this. I bought a 24" iMac for £1200, kept it 3 years, and sold it for £550. I never managed that sort of thing with a 3 year old PC!

    My wife has a MBP that she likes. I tend to use the iMac for serious stuff, and the iPad for everything else.

    binno
    Free Member

    Do you want to buy one?

    I have a 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Xeon with 16gigs Ram and the upgraded 8800GT graphics card Mac Pro. Immaculate condition + 23" monitor, all boxes + manuals etc… Could be your's for avery reasonable price + i can help with the configuration / build that you might want.

    Drop me an email if you're interested…

    Shibboleth
    Free Member

    You have mail Binno…

    mboy
    Free Member

    Shibboleth

    Just to confuse the issue slightly, what exactly is wrong with your old G5 Power Mac? And what exactly do you use it for? Is it purely just Adobe CS2? And what are its tech specs (beyond the processor speed)?

    The reason I ask is cos I've just bought a 2nd hand machine like yours, though mine is the dual 2.5GHz model (so about 8% faster clock speed), and to be honest, it rocks! Yeah ok a new Mac Pro would be even better, but this thing benchmarks at approximately 30% faster than my (ok, 3 year old) MacBook Pro, and it's a 6 year old G5 machine!

    It's in immaculate condition cos it has been lovingly looked after as it was an install machine in a design house, with a service contract on it. It's like new, and has had a full refurb prior to me buying it. I've also upgraded the RAM (it came with 2.5GB in, I've added another 2 taking it to 4.5GB) and it's awesome!

    I know it's a 6 year old machine now, but if you're worried about that, the guy I bought mine off runs his own IT company specialising in installing and servicing Macs, new and old. He's always got several G5 Power Mac's in pieces that he uses for spares (which he sells for very reasonable prices, my mate blew his GFX card on his dual 2.7GHz machine, he's just sold him another for £30!). He's also recommended ways of speeding it up even further…

    As far as software goes too, you can upgrade your Power Mac to OS 10.5 (Leopard), you should be able to get a copy cheaply as Snow Leopard is out now. Pretty much everything still works with Leopard, Snow Leopard has added nothing of any use that I can spot.

    If your heart is set on buying a new Mac, and you can afford it, then far be it for me to stop you. Get a new Mac Pro (iMacs look nice, but performance wise they're no use to professionals really, the laptop components really limit speed and only a single hard drive limits speed too). But… If it was my money, I'd save the £2k on the new machine (plus extras including RAM and new software), splash out on some more RAM for your current G5 (don't know how much you've got already, but boost it to 4Gig or more, you'll really notice it), update to OS 10.5, splash out on a new screen probably (can highly rate my 23" Samsung 2333SW, they're £135 now! Perhaps not design studio worthy, but very very good nonetheless), fit a 2nd hard drive to use as a scratch drive to speed up data transfer (if you haven't already) and spend a few quid on a full service and overhaul for it… If you'd like (and you're anywhere near Birmingham), I can give you the contact details of the guy I use, he'll have your machine back to as new in no time!

    If you do buy a new one though, and you want rid of your old machine (with CS2), I probably know someone that would take it off your hands for the right price.

    my email is in my profile if you want any more info about anything.

    Shibboleth
    Free Member

    Cheers MBoy, there's nothing 'wrong' with my current Mac, but I need another machine for another employee.
    I do intend to overhaul and upgrade it though, because it's probably the most reliable Mac I've ever had.
    So thanks for the OS advice, very helpful.

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    snow leopard is intel only and will not run on a power pc (G5) machine.
    cs5 will not run on a power pc machine either.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    (iMacs look nice, but performance wise they're no use to professionals really, the laptop components really limit speed and only a single hard drive limits speed too).

    The chap who runs our studio would sneer at that, he uses an iMac, I believe it's a 24", and his has Quark, CS5, three monitors, and it's more than capable, but then he's not doing video, just artwork and Photoshop. We also have a new 27", as does a mate, and the 27" is not based on laptop components, it's a desktop machine inside the case, so should be more than capable enough for most people.

    flamejob
    Free Member

    iMacs look nice, but performance wise they're no use to professionals really,

    Funny 😆

    I quote Cameron in Ferris… professional what?

    I wouldn't try any whole earth weather simulations on it, but they're well capable.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Buy a PC.

    (annoying, isn't it.)

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    not as annoying as actually having to use one.

    _tom_
    Free Member

    Nothing wrong with Windows 7 😀 Admittedly though I still haven't got round to calibrating my monitor so I have no idea how well it will work when I try to do that.

    andyl46
    Free Member

    I have a 27" imac already loaded with CS4, yours for £1k. Email in profile.

    Kevevs
    Free Member

    you know you are gay, don't you?

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    is it only gay if your balls touch?

    rob2
    Free Member

    I don't understand half of what is written on this page.

    But I have an iPad and I like it 😀

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