I don’t really trust my cheapo heart rate monitor, so while trying some 1hr fasted training rides in the mornings, I’m attempting to maintain ‘low intensity’ by:

1) avoiding any burn/lactic in the legs

and

2) trying to keep breathing steady

Feels fine although obviously feels a bit too easy compared to the morning time trial I usually subject myself to. The legs/breathing rule also means some silly gears on the one steepish climb en route… 🙄

Any other useful rules of thumb?

There’s a speed above “pootle”?

Im out.

If you can’t breath through just your nose (have to use mouth too)then you are getting into Zone 3 imho

Start off…. easy easy easy..

“sod it… lets get on with it”

Some people find the Borg RPE scale useful. The little numbers on the right (6->20) are supposed to roughly align with your heartrate ÷10, so 6 = 60 bpm and so on.

I just try to keep track of percieved effort, it helps that i often ride with an HRM and so have a kind of internal calibration for what effort equates with what sort of HR, but ruel of thumb:

Recovery rides: avoid putting pressure on pedals just spin them over

z2/3 type easy rides, i dont go too soft, just what feels like steady and i could keep up for a few hours. So can feel legs working but no lactic buildup. ‘could happily hold a conversation’ is a phrase I’ve heard before

edit. was typing that when that scale was put up, sems reasonable to me.

I used to use communication

zone 2 – sentences of communication, without needing to particularly then get breath back after

zone 3 – words / phrases, but then a gap for breathing

zone 4 – single words / grunts

zone 5 and over – not communication, mouth clamped shut to stop vom coming out

1hr fasted training rides in the mornings,

Any other useful rules of thumb?

Don’t overthink it, just ride for an hour at a pace that you can comfortably sustain for an hour.

What’s the advantage of these low intensity fasted rides then? I only ever commute on an empty stomach, out of bed at 6.30, pedalling for 6.45, then have brekkie at work.

Should I be taking it easy or what on these rides? (Not far, 8.5 miles and about 10 metres of climbing all in!)

The theory AIUI is that the fastedness (i.e. low blood sugar) of the rides encourages the body to learn to burn fat more efficiently.

I think you only need to worry about pace/intensity if you’re doing it for 1.5hrs plus though; anyone should be able to manage an hour’s exercise on no breakfast pretty easily.

When I do it/did it, I’d also not then eat until lunch. Felt a bit wobbly come lunchtime the first few times, but the body soon adapts

Great responses, thanks.

That scale is good, puts me firmly in RPE 4, between ‘light’ and ‘somewhat hard’. Certainly feel like I could maintain for hours.

IHN, I think you’re getting at the same thing, although in my terms, ‘comfortably maintain’ means I won’t blow up or bonk or be sick 😀 I know what you mean though, this morning’s ride was actually pleasant rather than a gasping struggle…

ferrals/otherjohnv – that scale seems to work with the RPE scale, puts me in zone 2.

Nobeer – the idea is to maximise fat burning, going too hard burns calories but not from fat, and then they’ll mostly get replenished from your breakfast rather than excess fat. I’m trying to trim 5kg over the next 6-10 weeks and this seems like a convenient way to do it. Think the idea is that to enjoy the benefits you need to be out for longer than 30min.

I sometimer try to do Z1 commutes with the Garmin HRM. The slightest slope and you’ve got to cut back. The morning I always fail as there’s more up than down, afternoon is do-able, got HR down to 55bpm at one point yesterday for example.

If you can’t breath through just your nose (have to use mouth too)then you are getting into Zone 3 imho

Similar for me.
Mouth breathing starts around mid z2
z2/23 boundary occurs at the point where breathing becomes noticeably deeper.
occurs around about 5.5 on the rpe scale above.

What’s the advantage of these low intensity fasted rides then?

Trains you to burn a higher% of fat rather than your stored carbs.

Should I be taking it easy or what on these rides?

Kinda depends. If you want the benefit above then yes.
But on the other hand going harder will raise metabolism for a few hours and burn more total calories which is probably better for weight management.

Edit: So fasted rides for when you want to have energy left to up the pace 5hrs into a ride. Short intense stuff for getting skinny

But on the other hand going harder will raise metabolism for a few hours and burn more total calories which is probably better for weight management.

Bugger, hadn’t read that one, was enjoying my excuse to take it easy in the mornings! 8)

Although on the flip side seeing all those cyclists ahead of me and not being able to chase was quite frustrating (yes, I am that pathetic)

The general rule of thumb is that the recovery ride is much easier than you think it is! I’ve ridden my SS mtb on the road as the gearing is so low that cadence stops the heart rate climbing out of Z2. Z1 I very hard to maintain.

Generally speaking – without HRM, don’t push hard. Ever (if I want to stay in zone 1-2 (mostly 2), possibly creeping into 3).

I can ride all day at a low intensity or for a few hours at medium intensity, but stick in a bit of high/extreme smashing up hills, which I’ve never been good at. And whatever energy stores I had are gone in about 3 seconds.

Just get a HRM that works. They are very cheap.

If I’m making a conscious effect to ride steady without a HRM, I tend to use one gear easier than if I am “hammering it.”

The Polar Beat app could be a useful tool if you are looking to more accurately moderate your effort, in combination with using a single earphone. You can set it to give you audio feedback every 1km, which tells you…
Last 1km time
Last 1km average heart rate
Total distance and time taken

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fi.polar.beat&hl=en_GB

It can be linked to Strava and has a unique version of the Relive app which shows your heart rate zones through the ride using different colours.

The one downside for me was I cannot connect my Lidl (re-badged Wahoo) speed/cadence Bluetooth sensor with Polar Beat, I suspect it is programmed to only work with official Polar cadence kits.

But for someone trying to use heart rate rather than spending “silly money” on power meters to gauge their effort, the audio feedback is quite useful, I use just the left earphone when I do this but obviously it does reduce my hearing of the surroundings on my left side.

If I’m making a conscious effect to ride steady without a HRM, I tend to use one gear easier than if I am “hammering it.”

Shades of grey…
Should be more like 4 gears between an easy ride and a hard one.

13thfloormonk>>> Nobeer – the idea is to maximise fat burning, going too hard burns calories but not from fat, and then they’ll mostly get replenished from your breakfast rather than excess fat. I’m trying to trim 5kg over the next 6-10 weeks and this seems like a convenient way to do it. Think the idea is that to enjoy the benefits you need to be out for longer than 30min.

I think there are two things – burning fat (if you want to lose it) and training to burn more fat relative to carbs to improve endurance (useful even if you are skinny and don’t want to lose weight). For the latter, it is important you make up the energy you lost after the ride, for the former I guess it is important that you don’t, or not completely anyhow.

Shades of grey…
Should be more like 4 gears between an easy ride and a hard one

Indeed it is…

My Wazoo only has 8 gears, 34T chainring and 11-30 cassette (11-13-15-17-20-23-26-30).

On the flat, I would usually be in at least 6th gear (~65.7 gear inches) when not taking it steady. 5th is a drop to ~57.9 gear inches on my 2.35″ G-Ones.

I only use 2nd (~37.8 gear inches) if I’m taking it easy up the likes of the top of Woodmill Lane (~10% just before the final kink left plateau).

Now on my new Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc, being 22-speed, the gear spacing is much more refined, so if I went out for a steady ride on it (yet to happen) then I would no doubt drop more gears. 😉

For the latter, it is important you make up the energy you lost after the ride, for the former I guess it is important that you don’t, or not completely anyhow.

Good point, I was operating on a 500kCal reduction per day (so 2100kCal based on a basic ‘metabolic rate’ calculator I found online :roll:) but allowing myself to eat up to and including however many calories I thought I had burned on my rides. So minimum reduction in calories would be 500kCal/day which apparently equates to 0.5kg/week.

That of course depends on making a reasonable estimation of calories burnt on my ride, for now I’m just halving whatever ridiculous number Strava comes up with 8)

Why not trust the HRM? Unless readings are all over the place, why would it be wrong?

FWIW I never subscribed to the low intensity fat burn thing, ride hard and my metabolism seems(ed) to rise afterwards…

Just ride at a pace that requires no concentration to maintain.

If you can sing whilst doing that then it’s probably low intensity.

Just ride at a pace that requires no concentration to maintain.

For most people that don’t really do the focused training thing, that equates to an interval session, z1 on the flat and z4 on any slight inclines.

Edit: or z3 everywhere for folks that cant resist chasing ‘rabbits’

That of course depends on making a reasonable estimation of calories burnt on my ride, for now I’m just halving whatever ridiculous number Strava comes up with

Indeed, I think you need to take those numbers with a good pinch of electrolyte.

I tried a fasted ride a few months ago and it seemed to go OK but the weather was foul and I caught a cold shortly after (which is apparently an issue with riding when energy depleted). The cold may have been related to the fact that I didn’t really stick to a low power regime for all the ride, the final couple of climbs were “f*** it its raining lets get home”. I may try it again now the weather is good but I think I will need to avoid big/steep hills.

I’d say Z4 and ‘chasing rabits’ requires concentration and effort but each to their own.

Actually the Strava estimation shouldn’t be too bad as long as you have your weight and bike weight/type set correctly so it can do a fairly accurate power estimate.
It’ll be poor on one way trips as it cant judge wind conditions, but on round trips it should average ok

Why not trust the HRM?

I do, I just never figured out a sensible maximum heart rate for myself and am not prepared to pay/take the time to go to a gym and do all the proper tests.

For instance, using the old formula of 220-age gave me a maximum heart rate that allowed me to sit at 90% for several minutes, which is apparently not healthy. Calculating backwards in order that my 90% heart rate was only sustainable for a minute max gave me the maximum heart rate of somebody 15 years my junior!

All interesting stuff, think I’ll mix up the low intensity rides and the ‘chasing rabbits’ rides in the mornings, and just chase rabbits in the evenings 😀

edit:

Actually the Strava estimation shouldn’t be too bad as long as you have your weight and bike weight/type set correctly so it can do a fairly accurate power estimate.
It’ll be poor on one way trips as it cant judge wind conditions, but on round trips it should average ok

That’s interesting, using the best cycle specific estimates I could find online, I suspected I was burning 600-800kCal for an hour (6ft, 85kg, 16mph average). Strava said over 1000kCal, but I usually have a tailwind in the morning and the average gradient is very slightly downhill. Should average the calories over my outward/return legs and see what it comes up with.

I’d say Z4 and ‘chasing rabits’ requires concentration and effort but each to their own.

Me too, but then we both ‘do’ training and our z4 efforts might last for 20mins at a time rather than 3-4mins, whereas for loads of people they just do it subconsciously, or they think hills are supposed to be hard and make them that way.

I do a ride with a social group once a month, and the guys that are fit(ish), but not actually training cyclists are regularly pushing on up every climb and leaving the actually fit people spinning along scratching their heads.
Likewise with a couple of friends that do actually cycle, but have no interest in training – I often joke that one of them only actually has 2 paces – tempo- and tempo+ – seems totally incapable of riding easy, and likewise as has no change of pace to go hard.

It’s quite alien to me really, but I suspect actually training makes me alien to a good many more people

Edit

For instance, using the old formula of 220-age gave me a maximum heart rate that allowed me to sit at 90% for several minutes, which is apparently not healthy

90%MHR isn’t really that high at all, not really that uncommon to be able to hold it for an hour. If it was that unhealthy cyclists and runners would be dropping like flies.

I am super sloooow, have never tried a fasted ride so not sure how that would impact it. I generally ride at a pace I can sustain for 30-40 minutes where my breathing is reasonably easy. Any sharp climb is going to kill that so i
I try and just grind up in the granny gear. It’s not unusual for Endomondo to auto-pause thinking I have stopped 😳

My 8.5 miles only ever takes 30 mins, even with gates, lights etc, so if there’s no benefit for 30 mins, I’ll carry on. I take it pretty easy just now, say 120bpm max.

90%MHR isn’t really that high at all, not really that uncommon to be able to hold it for an hour. If it was that unhealthy cyclists and runners would be dropping like flies

Aha, that could be the crux of it, think I got the 1 minute rule from a spin instructor, but he was maybe being conservative to avoid killing clients!

Maybe worth revisiting then.

TiRed – Member
The general rule of thumb is that the recovery ride is much easier than you think it is!

when i first got a heart rate monitor think this was the most beneficial thing I learnt from it

I have a heart rate monitor, and in my experience zone 1 is impossible once you get out on the bike, zone 2 is doable but with only the minimum of effort, throw any sort of light incline into your route and you’ll be into zone 3 withought even noticing

maybe it’s different once you become fitter

1hr in the morning is something I’d do at any pace I felt like, Z2-limited work feels like it works best for 2-3hrs upwards (5-6 ideally).

Why not trust the HRM?
I do, I just never figured out a sensible maximum heart rate for myself and am not prepared to pay/take the time to go to a gym and do all the proper tests.

Try a 20 or 30 min threshold test and look up Joe friel’s zones that relate % of threshold to trad 1/2/3/4 levels. Very useful I thought, more so if you repeat the threshold test every few weeks.

Original q, agree with someone who said as soon as you can’t breathe through your nose, or you go above normal breathing, you’re upper Z3 into Z3.

Also agree with cynic-al that any riding burns some fat, not sure it’s zone-related. I seem to drop weight most with a combo of long easy rides and proper hard 1hr – 90mins sessions. The hard sessions seem to ramp up your metabolism for some time afterwards.

Good points well made fifeandy.

High five ‘alien’!