Viewing 35 posts - 1 through 35 (of 35 total)
  • Looped Mudguard Stays – Accident
  • gazman42
    Free Member

    Hi All,

    First off my apologies for long post – but do please read through – I need your help in collective thoughts, feedback and experience.

    I had a bad accident while cycling home from work as caused by a faulty front mudguard. The cause of accident was the carrier loop (stays) of front mudguard spontaneously disconnecting from single plastic clip on mudguard. In an instant, the looped stays jammed my front wheel and rotated bike; with me still holding onto bars; around my front wheel at a fair pace.

    My accident is I understand, better known as a ‘Face Plant’ ! I knocked myself out and broke my right eye socket in two places. This was along with smashing my nose to such good effect, as required five differing stitch locations. The intention of stitching being to return my nose to one piece, as opposed to several disjointed bits ! This was notwithstanding internal mouth lacerations; though thankfully, with no teeth lost. Suffice to say I was advised by ambulance crew that my helmet and off-road (city park) location saved me. As I could easily have been killed by impact, or otherwise ran over by other vehicles, had accident happened on road.

    I’m therefore looking to see if anyone can help in gathering evidence, opinion ? Aka: my understanding that this particular design of mudguard is a fundamentally flawed design and that product quality and/or testing was insufficient to affirm my accident could not occur.

    The front mudguard is of full length and advised suitable for all bicycles of 700 or 26″ wheel size: my bike is a Trek 7200. The supplier is a well known car accessory and more recently cycle and cycle accessory supplier, with branches UK wide. The guards are their own product and are still on sale, when last checked !

    The mudguard is held with a single fixing as normal at top of forks. But most notably the stays are effectively a loop (U shaped) as carries/holds the lower part of the front mudguard in place. This loop is of fairly heavy gauge steel and attaches to the mudguard via a plastic clip as is intrinsic to the mudguard. The loop is then an overcentre push fit, where the circumference of steel is either fully engaged with or not at all in this design.

    In my case, while cycling on rough tarmac the looped stay spontaneously became loose from noted clip. With the loop still held fixed at end of forks; the combination of weight of the loop and bouncing of bike over terrain (rough tarmac) caused it to bounce up and down. The loop then caught the tyre and as the tyre carried it round, it then tightened increasingly onto the tyre. The result was that in a quarter turn of the wheel, my bike stopped due to a jammed wheel – as all happened in an instant.

    Can I ask; has anyone had (hopefully not) the same or had a similar accident or any poor experience/spontaneous release with this ‘looped’ design of stay for mudguards, as without breakaways at forks ?

    One lifelong experienced gentleman I know and whose learned opinion I trust, advised as follows: that the designs with a continuance loop and no breakaway are an accident waiting to happen – indeed, described as ‘lethal’. Aka; the stays should be individual to each side, as to avoid a loop ever catching the tyre; with breakaways at bottom of forks or perhaps ideally, alternatively at the mudguard end.

    Your thoughts and feedback will be much appreciated and many thanks for reading my post.

    I have an image of my bike at accident but do not see an attachment option to add it (?)

    Gary

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    join the CTC and talk to their lawyers.

    you’ll get lots of opinion on here but if you’re considring suing a lawyer is probably your best bet.

    codybrennan
    Free Member

    I have the same guards from the same retailer, and I haven’t had mine go “spontaneously loose”.

    That said, I check mine before riding out, and treat them the same way as QR’s- its possible that, over time, they could work loose from vibration, and so a check and a periodic tighten up would do the trick.

    However, up until now, they never have.

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    v666ern
    Free Member

    Good work, let me know how many millions you win.

    Bez
    Full Member

    +1 for for the CTC lawyers.

    These guards, I assume?

    joemarshall
    Free Member

    I’ve had something stuck under my front guards with SKS mudguards. They have a breakaway bit at the fitting. It broke away, bit of a scraping noise but no real problems, I was fine. I got off, took out the stick, clipped the mudguard back into the breakaway bit, and rode away.

    So I can recommend you replace them with SKS ones, they work great in this situation.

    kcr
    Free Member

    I have no experience of the particular mudguard type you are describing, but the breakaways on conventional designs are designed to release at the fork attachment while the stays remain attached to the mudguard. According to your description, however, the stays came loose at the point where they join the mudguard. I guess you are going to have to demonstrate that whoever fitted the mudguards attached the stays to the mudguard clip correctly in the first place? Given the specific circumstance of your incident, the behaviour of the fork breakaways seems to be a secondary issue.

    gazman42
    Free Member

    Thanks all,

    On the product in question there is only a single clip on mudguard; as would appear to be intended as a Q/R come breakaway – the fork end is a ‘fixing’ and is not designed as a breakaway. But see below comments and thoughts on this.

    Good work, let me know how many millions you win.

    It isn’t really about this, it is about not wanting it too happen to other cyclists – an aim is to have the product removed until it can be modified or otherwise fitting instruction altered. Aka; thought/safety measure on other forum was to keep fittings at bottom of forks loose enough that a ‘tug’ would allow them to act as ‘breakaways’. But instructions would have to note this requirement and its hardly ideal.

    …its possible that, over time, they could work loose from vibration,…

    This is the very problem I had and as could happen to anyone with these guards. If this does happen and terrain is a bit bouncy (rough tarmac for me) and carrying any speed, then the stay loop can catch the tyre, with potentially fatal consequences.

    So I can recommend you replace them with SKS ones, they work great in this situation.

    This is what I will be doing and wish I had initially. But the general public (me :-)) are not as well acquainted with the pitfalls associated with mudguards. But then again you expect manufacturers/product suppliers to be – at least in obvious matters. Aka; there are other brands obviously better designed; so why not ask why !?

    …I guess you are going to have to demonstrate that whoever fitted the mudguards attached the stays to the mudguard clip correctly in the first place?

    The clip is as described a plastic push fit – its either in or it isn’t; half way in or working ‘a bit’ loose cannot really happen. In other words the clip simply gave up holding onto the stay as is assumed to be from either vibration or perhaps poor manufacture in size of clip. But the key point is that – given potential consequence of a loose looped stay to catch the tyre – then breakaways ought to have been intrinsic to the design at the fork attachments.

    As indicated – if anyone has had any experience or knows of any similar incident with these guards… ?
    Then please, feel free to share here – it can only help.

    Cheers

    Gary

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    Interesting timing on the halfords Newsletter/advert I just received.

    [edit] ignore me – it was using cookies to show me stuff I’d chosen to look at so that’s why they were advertising mudguards at me… bloomin interwebs and their clever lookign over your shoulder.

    allthegear
    Free Member

    So, something was kicked up from the path into the wheel, lodging in the mudguard and then jammed, causing you to come off? Am I understanding this right?

    Rachel

    bigyinn
    Free Member

    You joined just to muck rake?
    That sort of mudguard design has been around for decades. Im assuming they were fitted by a trained professional, not you?
    I’ve used similar designs of mudguard in the distant past on the mountainbike and never had any failures.

    druidh
    Free Member

    As a general point, trying to determine the cause of failure after the fact is fraught with difficulties – e.g. there have been many threads on here regarding rear mech failure causing accidents whereas it could well have been a stick going into the spokes causing the chain to jam which then causes the apparent rear mech failure.

    smiff
    Free Member

    looks like an inherently dangerous design / accident waiting to happen. reminds me of the old front brake yoke problem (single wire, in all later canti/v brakes replaced with a link so if it broke you got an open brake, not a snagged wheel).
    use http://imgur.com// to post pics.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    I don’t quite understand the failure mode, but I’m only looking at the picture on Halfords’ website.

    The stay is a single loop, with the mudguard on top, held on with a plastic clip, right? So the mudguard blade isn’t a structural part of the system – if the bolts are tight at the dropout, then the loop should sit clear of the wheel whether or not the mudguard is attached.

    Or is it the other way around, with the loop over the mudguard – in which case the blade could come loose and drop into the wheel?

    Either way, I don’t see how stays which are clear of the wheel become entangled with the wheel just because the fitting to the mudguard fails. My bet is on something else, like a stick, becoming caught in the mudguard.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    reminds me of the old front brake yoke problem (single wire, in all later canti/v brakes replaced with a link so if it broke you got an open brake, not a snagged wheel)

    This was never a safety issue unless you removed the reflectors, which were designed to go under the straddle wire to catch it if the cable snapped.

    bigyinn
    Free Member

    I suppose the clip mounting the guard to the fork crown could work loose or break, thus allowing the mudguard to rotate with the wheel until the stays jammed against the fork, as the OP suggests, locking up the front wheel.

    MrGreedy
    Full Member

    This won’t help you, but I had the SKS guards with a breakaway where they attach to the fork by the dropout and they’re no guarantee of safety.

    In my case, either the guard got a bit bashed by something in the bike sheds, or possibly my toe clipped the back of it slightly and I ended up with a similar accident – mudguard jammed on wheel (breakaways obviously didn’t break), OTB, lots of claret from nose. Luckily I was only doing walking pace and had just left work at a hospital so was 300yds from A&E (although annoyingly I did have a wedding to go to the next day for which I was less photogenic than usual). I agree the loop design looks potentially worse though.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    I suppose, but what would make it rotate in the first place? If the crown bracket had failed, the top of the blade would drop on the wheel, but I don’t think that’d pull the mudguard through.

    bigyinn
    Free Member

    reminds me of the old front brake yoke problem (single wire, in all later canti/v brakes replaced with a link so if it broke you got an open brake, not a snagged wheel).

    I think that was more luck than intended, the Vs were designed to be easier to setup and more powerful, the fact that they failed safe was a bonus more than anything else.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    Plus, a yoke would still jam on the wheel if the cable snapped – the cable was quite tightly clipped into the yoke.

    breatheeasy
    Free Member

    My bet is on something else, like a stick, becoming caught in the mudguard.

    That’s what happened to my mate – flicked up a stick and all the mudguard stays did (despite the breakaways) was to nicely keep it lined up to jam behind the forks as the mudguard collapsed along with it. One broken elbow, ribs and facial injuries later…

    drbob65
    Free Member

    I don’t use mudguards, never had a problem, tried them 20 years ago and all were hopeless at not flapping about even before they get weighed down with mud. I simply don’t trust the things to stay in place

    Babbel
    Free Member

    This happened to my bro about 25yrs ago.
    The joint between stay and guard failed. Stay dropped, jammed on tyre.
    Stay was flipped up by rotating tyre then jammed again near top of fork. This time it locked front wheel. He went straight over bars. Off to hospital minus front teeth. Very poor design. No sticks involved!

    bencooper
    Free Member

    How can the stay drop? The stay is holding the mudguard up, not the other way around.

    MarkN
    Free Member

    Is the black one the same design? If so from the reviews I spotted this.

    “Bought these in a hurry and can now regret the purchase at my leisure. The main problem is the long wire supports that clip into a plastic bracket on each mudguard. This method of retention is rubbish and the wire supports pop out of the plastic bracket easily. My advice DON’T BUY”

    ScottChegg
    Free Member

    the looped stay spontaneously became loose

    Spontaneously? Are you sure?

    with potentially fatal consequences

    and

    lethal

    At least you are not overdoing the hyperbole.

    smiff
    Free Member

    hmm i never realised the front reflector bracket was also to catch the yoke! by the time i got a proper mtb (purple rigid trek!) in the mid 90s, LX had changed to a link.
    anyone wondering, i read about this being a safety thing here:
    http://sheldonbrown.com/canti-trad.html#yoke

    so about mudguards: don’t use one with loops around the wheel? you want two separate pieces of wire i think. whether you have legal case i’ve no idea. i’ve heard of sillier. most likely they’d argue it’s safe if installed properly. caveat emptor?

    bencooper
    Free Member

    Mudguards with single loop stays have been around for decades – if not longer than the other type. I still don’t understand how the loop can touch the wheel.

    druidh
    Free Member

    I guess that if the stays bent, then they would become “shorter” than the diameter of the tyre? However, without seeing how they were attached at the fork end it’s hard to imagine why they wouldn’t simply pivot around the fixing bolt.

    Greybeard
    Free Member

    it’s hard to imagine why they wouldn’t simply pivot around the fixing bolt.

    I’m guessing that this is what they do, but the bolt is, say, 2cm above the centre of the axle. If the loop has 3cm clearance to the tyre, once it pivots 180º, that clearance becomes 1cm interference.

    druidh
    Free Member

    ??

    That’s why a photo of the actual bike would be useful 🙂

    bencooper
    Free Member

    But why would they pivot, unless the bolts were loose? You’ve got a rigid wire loop over the wheel, which the mudguard clips to – the mudguard isn’t a structural part.

    gazman42
    Free Member

    So, something was kicked up from the path into the wheel, lodging in the mudguard and then jammed, causing you to come off? Am I understanding this right?

    Thanks for query Rachel, but no, there was nothing on the tarmac to cause this. It simply came out either to vibration or to this and in combination to a poor clip, in so far as insufficient grip.

    …if the bolts are tight at the dropout, then the loop should sit clear of the wheel whether or not the mudguard is attached.

    Hi Ben, Yes the loop is clear when at standard installation (approx’ 90 degrees) to fork attachment. But when the stay/loop is loose from clip it bounces when cycling and particularly over rougher ground.
    Bear in mind that it is fixed tight at the bottom of the forks. Thus when bouncing/oscillating about this fixed point, it’s length/radius reduces relative to the tyre. Hence it can (as it did with me) catch the tyre. Then when it does so; the tyre carries round the stay/loop. As it does so, it’s length/radius continues to reduce by millimeters, to the point where it digs into the tyre; with the effect as described and evident in image – can anyone help on how to post the image here ?

    Thanks all for your feedback; most is helpful in building an image of all the various possibilities in alternative designs and in other happenings/experiences to other cyclists as effected by mudguards.

    Prior to my experience I had no insight into the accident potential mudguards can have. They are of course very useful; but their designs need to encompass the range of accidents as have befallen many.

    Notably, most of us will escape with no accident and perhaps wonder the fuss. However have a face plant/near death incident, and a different outlook follows.

    As shared hopefully something positive comes from this in terms of mudguard designs and particularly in connection with this design.

    NB: For anyone using this type of mudguard it may be worth considering as indicated in other posts, to loosen the stays attachment on each side at bottom of forks so that a good tug (as simulates an incident) will pull the stays out of their mountings here. This would lessen the likelihood of the loop doing as it did with me. Aka, if loose at mudguard, for whatever reason (vibration / poor clip or debris) then the loop; if able to slip its mountings here; will not then grab the tyre.

    I will feedback in the coming months on an outcome and again many thanks for all your insight and shared knowledge; much appreciated.

    Gary

    Bez
    Full Member

    I very much doubt you could set the clamp at the fork such that it would both stay in place while riding and break free before catastrophically grabbing the rear tyre – which it could potentially still do even if pulled free.

    Decent loop-stay guards such as Berthoud take the loop *over* the guard. I agree that the ones you have seem (so far as I can tell) to be a significantly flawed design.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    But with the loop over the guard, the blade can drop down and catch on the wheel.

Viewing 35 posts - 1 through 35 (of 35 total)

The topic ‘Looped Mudguard Stays – Accident’ is closed to new replies.

Members Notice New deal added to Members Discounts