If anyone has been to a war cemetery you will know that they are the most moving places imaginable. To see such a place desicrated in the manner shown on the youtube footed makes me think our troops bombed and shot the wrong side of the recent Lybian fiasco.

Every country has its nutters. Have we never had such things happen in our own country?

and the suprise is?

TandemJeremy – Member

and the suprise is?

It is only at one location …

Bear in mind there are many who hate the West to the core for whatever reasons …

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/9121706/Libyan-rebels-desecrate-graves-of-British-war-heroes.html

For anyone who’s missed the story.

It’s all about which foot the shoe is on. Libya is now full of people at every level of power who are capable of acts just as reprehensible as Gaddafi was. The same is true of Syria and Assad.

It was clear to me early on that we were doing the world no great good in the long term in Libya.

If you have a shed built out of utterly rotten wood, you can’t cure it by swapping pieces around and putting in the odd nail here and there. You need to tear it down, and replace it with wood that is not rotten.

That won’t happen in any of our lifetimes, so in the meanwhile there will be a lot of shuffling about and political (sometimes military) manipulation to stop things imploding on themselves and taking the rest of us with them. The Islamic world ladies and gentlemen.

But don’t forget… it’s a loving peaceful religion! 😉

In Afghanistan, someone made a mistake and some copies of the Koran were put a bit near a fire. As a result, thousands took to the streets in riots and many innocent people have been killed. In Libya, armed men we spent millions of pounds saving from their own government, destroy the graves of our dead from World War II while decrying the ‘Christian dogs’. What will happen as a result? Absolutely …nothing. I am not suggesting there should be riots, or any kind of physical action. It would be nice though, if people could open up their minds and see past the propaganda, accept that their idiosyncratic desires for everyone to ‘just get along’ are not possible with the world in it’s current state… and that maybe Islam is indeed afterall something that will take potentially good and peaceful people and twist their minds, drive them to violence and teach them that any number of heinous acts against their fellow man will be rewarded in the afterlife.

FWIW it wasn’t just the graves of western/christian soliders that were damaged , Muslim graves were also damaged.

I’m with you there, Arcane. Look how many acts of atrocity have happened to the Iraqies by their brother Muslims since Saddam was removed

“FWIW it wasn’t just the graves of western/christian soliders that were damaged , Muslim graves were also damaged. “

And in Iraq at this very moment, Muslim kills Muslim because they are not the right kind of Muslim. Actually, it’s quite possible that there is far more Muslim against Muslim violence than Muslim against Christian in the world at this time.

But again… loving peaecful religion… despite what the Koran says in black and white! 🙂

Ooops. Sorry… kind of stole your point there (above poster). Honestly was not posted after reading yours. 🙂

And of course Christianity is all about love, forgiveness and turning the other cheek? Just let me go and pull out my copy of the George W Bush biography (its short with lots of pictures).

Stereotyping religions is not useful. There are nutters in all religions (though don’t hear of too many Buddhist ones).

If you want more examples of Christianity and its tolerance then follow up the history of Northern Ireland.

Religion does tend to be used to excuse violence.

Christianity has very likely been responsible for more atrocities an acts of violence throughout history than Islam.

The difference is, slowly as it may be, Christianity IS being dragged out of the dark ages. Islam takes two steps back for every step forward.

Right now there are very few Christian countries in the world where a government will take military action based on religious beliefs. Alternatively… just about every single Muslim country in the world, has a government that will take military action based on religious beliefs.

The world is well on the way to recovering from the Christian disease. The muslim disease is not even under control yet.

CHB, you need to look back at the sixties when Buddist monks kept setting fire to themselves. In my book that makes you pretty effin nuts

When you overthrow a government from outside without any legitimate one to take its place nor any unifying group in the country you get a breakdown in law and order and it gives space for things such as this.

What we are seeing is on the whole tribal rivalries and settling of scores – not religious IMO.

It was so obvious this was going to be the result.

TandemJeremy – Member

When you overthrow a government from outside without any legitimate one to take its place nor any unifying group in the country you get a breakdown in law and order and it gives space for things such as this.

Best thing to do is let them deal with their own internal problems.

Scarily enough, I find myself agreeing with TJ.

It seems a common thread. Attack with no exit plan and little thought as to what will happen post-overthrow.

Have you ever visited a war cemetery TJ?

Maybe it’s just that other countries are a bit more hysterical than us. There is always that woman in black who falls to her knees, arms up stretched and wailing on the news. In this country we try to pretend nothing has happened. I think we try and sort out a situation rather than standing around moaning and trying to blame someone else.
There was last years riots but that was nothing to do with shooting someone,more about trainers and flat screens.
Maybe apathy is a good thing.

The main problem for Islam seems to be that the countries where it is followed are often those with the oil resources. So not only are there huge inequalities internally between those who have access and those who haven’t, but they attract much international attention from the likes of us who want to secure our supply.

As unpalatable as this is, it’s not the worst thing that has happened in Libya since the fall of Ghaddafi. Widespread human rights abuses including torture, rape, murder and indefinite detentions without trial or family access etc.

Thank god we supported the brave freedom fighters against the evil Ghaddafi.

TJ is right, Libya’s instability has less to do with Islam and more to do with a power vacuum. Look at what happened to France after the French revolution.

stavromuller – Member

Have you ever visited a war cemetery TJ?

Yes. I have visited war graves and battlefields and shed a tear or two. why do you ask?

So are the perpetrators of this wanton vandalism brave freedom fighters? Just asking because I seem to remember Mandella blew up a powerplant and he didn’t do so bad in the end

Why was Ghaddafi in power? because it suited the west, why was he removed because it suited the west. If you want to look at a f***ed up country look at Saudi, but because it suits the west they house of Saud are allowed to run it how they see fit. When they are seen as a liability rather than an asset i am sure we will see a revolution in Saudi Arabia.

Right now there are very few Christian countries in the world where a government will take military action based on religious beliefs. Alternatively… just about every single Muslim country in the world, has a government that will take military action based on religious beliefs.

Really? Blair and Bush took us to war based on religion and are responsible for the deaths of millions.

I don’t see malaysia starting wars, nor Iran. Turkey is not engaging in invading other countries.

i think islam is a medevil backward faith ,and they are savages , its causes most of the worlds problems !!

The reason I asked TJ, is because you seem remarkably unconcerned as to the damage caused for some obscure cause

nobbyq – Member

i think islam is a medevil backward faith ,and they are savages , its causes most of the worlds problems !!

And christianity isn’t?

i think islam is a medevil backward faith ,and they are savages , its causes most of the worlds problems !!

So you think that religion is a greater evil than, let us say, the pursuit of power? or money?

The problem the world faces is intolerance, it doesn’t matter what the root of it is, it is what allows people to be herded like sheep into wars thinking that it is the way forward. It prevents seemingly intelligent people actually thinking for themselves.

As unpalatable as this is, it’s not the worst thing that has happened in Libya since the fall of Ghaddafi.

Yup, and it’s kinda sad if some people are worked up by this particular incident but not so much bothered by the torture, murder, illegal arrests, looting, theft, etc.

Libya has fallen out of the news because the West achieved their objectives, but the torture, murder, etc, continues. All of which is mostly ignored except when a story like this occurs.

yes i do , its caused wars since time began ,intelligent people dont cut heads off others with kitchen blades on tv, or walk on trains with bombs on their backs , or fly planes into buildings!

Yup, and it’s kinda sad if some people are worked up by this particular incident but not so much bothered by the torture, murder, illegal arrests, looting, theft, etc.

I was thinking this, I’d much rather they smash up graves than blow up trains or kill their neighbours! People often seem to respect the dead more than the living FFS.

Sorry mrmo but Blair didn’t ask me if I minded when we attacked Iraq and callmedave didn’t ask me if it was ok to bomb the crap out of Tripoli. So it hardly makes me a sheep being herded relentlessly to war just some jumped up twerp wanting to make his mark on the world

yes i do , its caused wars since time began ,intelligent people dont cut heads off others with kitchen blades on tv, or walk on trains with bombs on their backs , or fly planes into buildings!

So what do Intelligent people do? Do they plant explosives on horse guards parade? do they assassinate politicians in car boots? Do they blow up ships in New Zealand Harbours? Do they invade countries with democratically elected governments and install puppet regimes? Do they allow torture in contravention of their own laws?

To say Islam is evil or wrong is stupid, the problem is with people seeking power and using what ever approach they can. I don’t remember Islam featuring in Kamikaze? Then again the west has always had this idea that they are improving the world.

Do you know where the greatest libraries on earth have been? do you know why europe was not destroyed by the Mongols? Do you know why the works of ancient greece still exist?

Sorry mrmo but Blair didn’t ask me if I minded when we attacked Iraq and callmedave didn’t ask me if it was ok to bomb the crap out of Tripoli. So it hardly makes me a sheep being herded relentlessly to war just some jumped up twerp wanting to make his mark on the world

So what did you do to stop it happening?

Tails, you seem like an intelligent a**hole. The war graves represent a lost generation that gave their lives to help save freedom for the entire world. Unfortunatately it gave this bunch of well armed scum the freedom to violate the memory of true heros

Tails, you seem like an intelligent a**hole. The war graves represent a lost generation that gave their lives to help save freedom for the entire world. Unfortunatately it gave this bunch of well armed scum the freedom to violate the memory of true heros

How about reading it another way, a generation who gave their lives to allow the imposition of ghadaffi on them, “scum” who have had to suffer death, torture, imprisonment, because they were “saved” by those buried in those graves?

History is written to serve the needs of the writer, History is rarely a true record of events.

What tails said is true – its worse if they kill people than if the desecrate graves.

arcane – Member

But again… loving peaecful religion… despite what the Koran says in black and white!

Go on, tell us what you’ve seen in the Quran in black and white that tells you that Islam isn’t a peaceful religion?

(sits back and waits for the inevitable misquoting of the verse of the sword)