There's also a fair bit to be had at Aberfoyle I believe
I found a couple of really nice little purpose built singletrack descents in the QE Forest Park behind the David Marshall Lodge - very short though. I wondered if there was other stuff around there.
As someone that lives in Glasgow but has family ties in Dumfries, I do feel that the central belt is in much need of a trail centre, yea we do have some good natural stuff here, but most if it gets too wet and boggy, (or maybe I'm not looking in the correct places) so it's a 1.1/2 - 2 hr drive south for me, I'm lucky because i have a car and family down there, two Bird's one stone...
"There seems to be a disproportionate amount spent in the Dumfries and Galloway area to me - spend some of that cash up in the Glasgow/Edinburgh/Perth area instead!"
I'm not so sure about that. when you consider the close proximity of the border, as a frequent visitor to 4 of the trail centre in D&G most riders and groups I meet come from south of the border, it's few and far between when I meet locals, D&G has a very good catchment area for the central belt and northern england....
but what about those who don't own a car ?? what ? get a train to dumfries-2hrs then a bus or taxi to dalbettie another 1hr, do the trail then somehow get a bus back to dumfries then a 2hr train journey.. so your looking at around 6 hrs travel.... who's up for that ?? na... Ill just stick to getting bogin around mugdock....
surly there must be a good argument for a descent trail centre closer to the two major city's in the country.... and can someone explain to me why there isn't
Kelpies was pants to begin with, and it looks even more pathetic now.
And as for the runway, they couldn't possibly make it any worse, those were the shortest jumps in the world. The jumps at Learnie (iir my trail centres correctly) were epic and i can only hope that they've been copied!
some of the descents on CV were good fun if you really blasted down them although it didn't pay to overcook anything thanks to the logs that had been placed at the edge of the trail (i know they were to stop people cutting corners but rocks are sooo much grippier).
And why re-grade it as a blue? it's a right pig to get to either from Denny or Stirling as the roads are probably more technical than the trail and last time i was there there wasn't much in the way of facilities beyond the car park. NOt the sort of roads you'd want more cars on.
I did have a magical evening/ night ride when snow was falling once, looked as though everything was covered in diamonds and the ice crystals in the air sparkled beautifully.
I'd far rather go to Pitmedden and park at the Glen Tarkie car park as the descent back to the car is so much fun. plus there's all sort of singletrack there, if you don't fancy it you can always ride the fire roads instead.
craig1975 - Memberbut what about those who don't own a car ?? what ? get a train to dumfries-2hrs then a bus or taxi to dalbettie another 1hr, do the trail then somehow get a bus back to dumfries then a 2hr train journey.. so your looking at around 6 hrs travel.... who's up for that ?? na... Ill just stick to getting bogin around mugdock....
Buying and riding a mountain bike is not some sort of inalienable right, nor is it yet provided by social services. If you don't have a car and you want to cycle, how about buying a road bike?
I don't know the whole story of Carron Valley but from what I do know there were two issues - the aims of the FC and the trailbuilders was different ( inclusive for all or red routes) and there were personality clashes.
Maybe it'd be better if you didn't trot out your usual nonsense on it then?
Tandemjeremy, sorry mate but everything you have typed about CV is pure mince...the plans that were agreed back in 06 had plenty of trails for beginners, families and intermediary riders - the only trails not on the map were Black - the FC didn't want anything developed there, it was by sheer hard work and the FC getting themselves into a corner that the trails that were built got built. At the time the FC didn't want any trails built, we got close to agreeing a Green trail - got it flagged out and surveyed and then the FC decided to change it all and no include the green bike trail...so yes, we totally believed in the requirement to build trails for all levels and the plans included that...but it just wasn't to be...
Funding streams - do you work for the FC? There is stacks of cash out there - you just have to know where to look (and also be a suitable group to access it) - FC is limited to what it can apply for - CVDG could have applied for almost £2million - if they had been given the green light all the way - that is not say they would have got it all, but the money is there to be had - if you meet the criteria...
By all means post your thoughts, but please don't make them sound as though you are speaking with any authority on the subject as it is very clear you aren't - not an attempt at a go at you but the number of people who think they know what happened and that are so far from the truth it starts to grate when people come on and claim to know how it all happened...
Buying and riding a mountain bike is not some sort of inalienable right, nor is it yet provided by social services. If you don't have a car and you want to cycle, how about buying a road bike?
a what ??????
Craig - get a cross bike - then you can pretend you 'cross it at the weekend. Its what I have done 
At the time the FC didn't want any trails built
I just dont understand why they wouldn't it - good publicity, people outside and enjoying themselves, land put to good to use, its not real work form them if the CVDG did all the admin and digging...
The reason is D/G needs investment because of its poor economy and the stanes were introduced directly as a consequence of the impact of foot and mouth on tourism. As a galloway boy I think we deserve investment you compare the ecomomy of Perthshire and that of Wigtonshire and the oppertunities for employment in the central belt with those in rural Galloway no Common Wealth games money comming our way
Oh. I didnt think of this. Also my comment wasnt meant to sound like D&G was getting to much - just that if you are developing can we have some too! It reads a bit like sour grapes when I read it back now. Sorry!
Protueus / Dick barton - fair enough. I stand corrected
By all means post your thoughts, but please don't make them sound as though you are speaking with any authority on the subject as it is very clear you aren't..............
Hence I put " I don't know the whole story of " "IIRC" " I believe" and so on - I thought that showed that I did not have all the information
apologies
Does anyone know when all trails will be open again?Hope they have done away with the tight switchbacks after Kelpies, they are too tight and you lose all speed.I will still ride there as its only 20 mins away but could be so much better.
To allow people who perhap don't understand what has gone on at Carron Valley.....see this null....TJ amoung others.
A little story about FCS and a freedom of information request concerning Carron Valley that went to the Information Commissioner because it was refused by FCS the request. Information Commissioner rules that there were 5 breaches of legislation. FCS top man's (Dr Bob McIntosh) response was it was a marginal ruling........interesting response from a public body!!!
A second story...a current Scottish Minister passes a call to investigate improper practice within FCS.....the Minister then passes letter and investigation to FCS.......so now we have a public body investigating itself and the investigation is led by it's top management. The very same top management who are heavily criticised in the call for an investigation!!!
Both these little stories are sadly true...you judge, read the website the evidence is very clear.
Hurray, some classic CV feedback…
For a start, don’t panic about Kelpies. The original rock chute is still there; it’s a bit shorter (a stream re-route and a new culvert pipe meant the run-out area had to be raised) and there is a goodly layer of surfacing on top, but the stonework is un-touched. ‘Best thing you can do is ride it loads and expose the rocks again.
I’ve got to admit the second chute was a surprise to me (the contractor got carried away) but it’s also pretty good under the surfacing, and about right for Novices.
Look, Carron Valley has got issues. Turn the clock back three months and any week day you would see guided groups of first timers riding an excellent Blue grade climb as a Red grade descent. Result: loads of skidding, puddles in all the dips and a surface that had worn off to expose vicious rocks. Half way down the trail they meet an unavoidable, Black grade rock chute that would rip your face off if you took a heeder half way down. You do the risk assessment and report back with some suggestions.
Here’s mine. Ride the upgraded section and help wear in a new line. Let the edges grow in and the rocks appear. If you still think it’s sh!te I’ll listen! Next, Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days and help to improve the rest of the trail.
Oh yes, the revised Runway should be ready in a fortnight. The worlds first triple grade trail. Blue, Red and Orange. Oh yes! Comments and additional grading colours requested……..
Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days
Got more details on this petey?
Sounds interesting...any more details?
I’ve got to admit the second chute was a surprise to me (the contractor got carried away)
Superb - Did they bill the FC for it as well? 
Black grade rock chute that would rip your face off if you took a heeder half way down.
Black is Ayers Rock at Laggan etc - Kelpies is a red 100%. Also I have come off it many a time and still seem to have a face...
Ride the upgraded section and help wear in a new line. Let the edges grow in and the rocks appear. If you still think it’s sh!te I’ll listen!
Okay. Fair point.
Next, Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days and help to improve the rest of the trail.
More info please! I'll be there! Although if there was say a group of people, with a website and a community built, who had a goal to develop carron valley as a group, with willing volunteers, perhaps it would have been good if people had worked with them no?
h yes, the revised Runway should be ready in a fortnight. The worlds first triple grade trail. Blue, Red and Orange. Oh yes!
Actually that sounds interesting. If its the same contractors it could end up being some multi-lane epic 
So, if you don't mind me asking, who are you in relation to CV?
A couple of my riding mates were up at CV recently and loved the changes to the top section. They reckon it's way faster and more flowing and thought it was a great improvement. If I remember correctly, they said the resurfacing only extends to the next steep corner after Kelpies that was pretty badly torn up by folk locking their brakes. The rest of the tight switch backs have been left alone. I'm looking forward to riding up there the next dry night and giving it a go.
The guys also walked down part of the 'runway' section to see what's being done, and again, they were very excited by what they saw, and going by their descriptions, so am I. I won't spoil it for you though!
There are plenty of very technical, natural local rides in the area, some of which hold up reasonably well in the winter. Carron Valley is a great wee distraction when the weather is seriously poop and you want a fast, flowy ride to practice getting the bike through stuff with minimal braking.
B.
were very excited by what they saw, and going by their descriptions, so am I. I won't spoil it for you though!
Go on, spoil it.
they've built a perfect loop-the-loop, whats remarkable is that it's only marked as "green".
seriously though. CV is really a set of 'green' trails. Kelpies is not black and not really all that red either. The run with the jumplets is not red either - it's green and is entirely rollable.
Go on, spoil it.
Shan't 
Well, I've been and I liked it. Much faster over the new sections of Eas Dubh.
No one appears to have mentioned the tree stump 'sculptures' within the wooded bit either. I spotted an arrow, a wee wild man, a toadstool and a couple of other ones. The posts the directions are attached to have all been changed for bigger ones too - noticed this a couple of weeks ago. The existing signs look like they may be getting changed as they're not the right size for the space on the new posts. All vitally important info
Oh, and I took my brother up too - his first trail centre and actually his first time on a bike for yonks. He loved it...
I just stuck this map together (Google maps is actually really good for this!) to show how important CV could be
You missed off the ones up by Aberdeen, Kirkhill forest I think?
If you still think it’s sh!te I’ll listen! Next, Turn out on one of the planned volunteer days and help to improve the rest of the trail.
Is the issue here maybe a bit of a lack of communication? Info on the FC website regarding CV is pretty scant and although there's a noticeboard in the car park, not much gets put up on it.
I don't think its unreasonable to want challenging trails at CV - the "go to Laggan or Inners" comment earlier ignores the most important point about CV, its proximity to major urban conurbations. Surely an option that means less road travel from Glasgow or Stirling is worthwhile. The forest is certainly big enough and hilly enough to accommodate everyone. Trail centres aren't everyone's cup of tea, and they're certainly not the only thing you can do on a bike in the Campsies and surrounding area, but people obviously like them and want to use them.
On the issue of risk assessment at CV - does the fact that there's no mobile reception there play a part at all?
D’,
I’m a full time trailbuilder and the chap who is providing some trailbuilding guidance to the contractor carrying out the repair and upgrade works at C.V. (Colin Devenny) I’m involved because the local FC recreation bods Peter and Andy wanted to sort out the current safety issues at CV and to improve the riding experience as much as budgets will allow. They asked me to look at Eas Dubh and The Runway and to suggest some repairs and upgrades.
I mentioned volunteer days because the rest of Eas Dubh needs a bit of drainage work.… culverts at the switchbacks and the odd patch of surfacing. Taking heavy machines in along the trailway will result in a complete re-build (as we found out elsewhere) so work squads are going to be the only practical method. The FC rec’ boys are keen to take on some of the work but two or three volunteer days will make a big dent. A couple of clubs have offered to turn out for some trail grafting and FC are up for supervising, mucking in, providing tools etc.
Just keep an eye open for dates.
'Didn't mean to be tetchy by the way.
David/Richard
Hows in going? I had hoped to keep my wee spell at CV low key because I did not want to step on toes, but a covert operation just wasn’t going to happen!! As far as I can gather the current FC Rec people just want to have a fresh start at CV and to get the regular users involved in caring for the trails again. I’ve absolutely no idea what will happen at CV in the future but I think most folks are aware of the desperate need for some extra trail mileage. Whether this can be, or will be driven from inside FC I don’t know. I just hope attitudes towards the place mellow a bit and the decision makers take a more positive approach to the building of new trails. I would guess the national ‘no new mtb trails’ ruling that scuppered the CVDG project has got to come to an end sometime. Fingers crossed.
The new Runway is pretty much a re-build because the original trail disappeared into the mud as soon as the dumpers started to run. We’ve kept the original line, beefed up the drainage, laid a new trail base and finer surfacing and built a bigger variety of jumps. It has to be safe for Blue riders so there are no huge drops or steep ramps but I don’t think anyone will complain about a lack of action.
Pete
Nice one Petey, cheers for taking the time to lay all that out.
As far as I can gather the current FC Rec people just want to have a fresh start at CV and to get the regular users involved in caring for the trails again
I think that's what everyone wants, so fingers crossed as you say.
Fair play...
It's always very easy to be critical of other folks work - both the original and the "makeover" and fwiw: 5 years ago (when this trail was designed) FCS themselves could neither clearly define nor demonstrate consistent trail grading / trail features at any of their other centres far less at Carron Valley;-)
Hitherto CV hasn't had a bean spent on trail maintenance (4 years+) so I think it's done pretty damn well considering the hammering, the weather and the prevailing ground conditions.
The ministerial guidance (no new trails) might officially be coming from the Minister - and who is it that advises the Minister? Of course the current lack of provision in Central Scotland is stupid: two major reports flagged it and it's officially supposed to be one of Scottish Cyclings targets to resolve.
Just to scotch the "personality" euphimisms which TJ and others regularly dine out on - they were nothing of the sort. All relationships of this sort involve strong personalities on each side do they not? Corrosion sets in when one party completely dominates and manipulates the entire partnership.
The fact is the entire gamut of trail types (including walking trails)were covered under the proposed plans and FCS were not in partnership exclusively with CVDG: Stirling & Northlan Councils, Scottish Water and others were all heavily involved and all are on record heavily criticising FCS tactics / behaviour.
It also suited one or two individuals within FCS to polarise the debate into CVDG = extreme trails ( i.e Red;-)and FCS = "inclusive family experience."
Bottom line, you cannot argue with fundamental geography - the place is only 15 mins from Stirling, all of North Lanarkshire and large chunks of Glasgow. Riders of all ages and abilities converge on the place anyway so it makes no sense whatsoever to artificially stream the trails there as Green and Blue only any more than it makes sense to make them all Red and Black.
One of the last dying acts of CVDG and the other partners (excluding FCS obviously) was to try and get "the green trail" built. FCS did everything in their power to block it. If the reason for that was to get rid of the nasty CVDG well, they got their wish. So, as Petey indirectly hints, perhaps now they could swallow their stupid bloody pride and take him up on some of his suggestions.
I mentioned volunteer days because the rest of Eas Dubh needs a bit of drainage work.… culverts at the switchbacks and the odd patch of surfacing. Taking heavy machines in along the trailway will result in a complete re-build (as we found out elsewhere) so work squads are going to be the only practical method. The FC rec’ boys are keen to take on some of the work but two or three volunteer days will make a big dent.
I'm in for this mate - it might be worth speaking to one of the CVDG bods as they may still have the list of email addys for the people that volunteered on their web site - perhaps a mail to people asking if they don't mind their details being passed to you would be do-able?
I didn't mean to get at you - its great that something is happening at CV! I just didn't understand why the changes were being made. From what I can see you have been tasked with making it safer while keeping it fun for a limited budget and within the demands made by the FC? In that case you have done a good job!
I'm actually getting excited about whats going on with the runway - "The worlds first triple grade trail. Blue, Red and Orange. Oh yes!" Sounds interesting!
Do you have a firm opening day? Anything planned?
You missed off the ones up by Aberdeen, Kirkhill forest I think?
Added - any more I have missed?
How much of a loss do the changes to the trail network at Carron Valley really constitute? Sadly, the area is unlikely to ever realise it's true potential but are the changes really so bad? If you want technical trail riding, you don't have to ride far from Carron Valley to find plenty of natural trails that will appeal to those who want more of a challenge e.g. Dumayat, North Third, some fruity stuff in and around Mugdock Country Park, Dumgoyne, Aberfoyle etc.
Dumayat, North Third, some fruity stuff in and around Mugdock Country Park, Dumgoyne, Aberfoyle
All very good stuff - but I was trying to avoid ending up axle deep in mud while not driving for 3 or more hours. I just fancied something a bit trail center ish on sunday. Weak I know
Actually, I'm thinking that we should get the FC / Pete Laing to work on some of the Sustrans routes in the Stirling area.
The new Kelpies staircase is way smoother than the cyclepath on the way to Fallin - particularly as it dives on a blind corner into under the bypass. Or what about that tricky barrier beside the local school - I can't get my bike through that. Maybe everyone is riding their mtb in the wrong place if they're looking for technical challenges.
Does rather question what the FC are doing when you compare it with what I have to ride as part of my daily commute on the local cycle network.
(PS Everyone looking for a new experience at CV should head up to the wind farm on Hart Hill - the access road is at the other end of the reservoir. OK the trails are not exactly singletrack in width but the views are superb and the turbines are impressive)
>Sadly, the area is unlikely to ever realise it's true potential<
Perhaps, but then ever's a very long time:
The only potential partners "on the Campsie Fells Steering Group favouring a looser “green network” would be SNH and or FCS - most probably the latter.
Same old story really - if it's your ball you can do what the hell you like with it, e.g: whilst FCS were giving CVDG and the other partners on the CVP a shoeing they were quietly buying up half the Campsies on the other side of the hill (huge chunk of land West of the Crow road)
The Hart hill and pending Carron turbine development was discussed at length within the CVP. There was a lot of enthusiasm from Stirling Council re linking in access trails to Carron (planning gain) also from existing acces points / ROW from Kilsyth in the South, the Crow road to the West and Denny via the old drove road to the East.
Wrll put the Heather man......Pete good luck........new ranger at CV with a fresh attitude....done that been there, the issue sits far higher up the FCS wind blown tree.
It was interesting that it was the new Ranger at CV said there was a block on new trails by the Scottish Government......I wonder if the Scottish Government know that???? Come to think of of it haven't we heard that line before.....yip..... been there done that.......it is amazing how there seems to be special rules for CV and no other place!!!
The End, it really was today Heather man and co (4 days before the deadline!!)
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