http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-15371108

That should ratle a few toy boxes on here, amongst the union lovers, and Shropshire council have already done it it appears.

But how are they allowed to do it.

Pretty much what is happening across the board. Probably find deep down that the new contract also takes them out of the pension scheme.

Interesting use of wording though. What was “Affordable” now becomes “fair”, mainly thanks to the fact that the pensions system in Scotland was self-funding (according to ATL), but this use of fair hides many unfairnesses.

But feel free to get laid into them. after all everyone deserves a little misery in these times of austerity.

did liam fox really get compensation for resigning his post?

wheres the austerity there?

Who is liam fox, some bloke who takes his freind to work, he got 17000 quid compo for loss of his job.

But how are they allowed to do it.

By employing very expensive lawyers (I suspect my old employers) who will have charged the council several hundred thousand pounds for what is complex and technical advice. Which is never a good use of taxpayer’s money.

There’s a very narrow loophole in the law that enables them to abuse the rights of employees in this way. So what if you’re the chief exec on £250k pa, but rather galling for the significant number of council employees who are already struggling to make ends meet.

Presumably you’ll be gloating at them, eh project?

The gov are changing the law to make it legal. Not a bad trick if you can get away with it, which they will. Just feed the Mail some “council work driving Ferrari” story and away it goes.

There’s a very narrow loophole in the law ……

It’s always been the case that employers can sack their workforce without any reason. The only legal requirement is that they are “fair” and sack everyone.

Presumably you’ll be gloating at them, eh project?

I would never gloat at peeps loosing a wage, unless theyre overpaid to start with, eg an Mp, or camerooooooon.

Can they just sack people without any redundancy?

seems so

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southampton have already done something similar.

I hate to see people suffer employment wise but when ever I deal with a local authority person they are typically slow to respond, not very helpful, work short hours, take no ownership for what they are saying or doing and generally are pi$$ poor. Plenty of similiar in private sector but at least they don’t get a full fat pension, shed loads of holiday, extra sick pay and a cushy job for life. All in all LA staff have had it coming to them for years. Sorry but its true.

h45, dont hide anything, let it all out.

TJ to the forum please.

All it would take is for the workforce to call their bluff and refuse to accept the change in contracts – the council could not sack all its employees it has a statutory duty to provide the service and it cannot do so without the staff.

………a full fat pension, shed loads of holiday, extra sick pay and a cushy job for life. All in all LA staff have had it coming to them for years.

That’s what the Bullingdon Boys like to hear ……. don’t demand a better deal for private sector workers – demand a worse deal for public sector workers ! And ffs don’t blame the bankers if life is getting a little difficult.

Suckers.

As I understand it dismissal and reengagement is only permissable if it applies to all employees. But if you have employees on minimum wage you cannot reduce their wage further. Therefore not everybody is being treated equally, does this therefore mean that it’s not legal?

(I’m all for more unequal treatment by the way, I don’t see any unfairness in halving the chief executives salary whilst not reducing that of someone who is earning 14 grand a year, but unfortunately dismissal and reengagement can’t work like that)

I disagree hh. I’ve worked for a private and public consultant. I was paid around £8k a year more privately, got a car allowance and a small bonus around christmas. Currently work in a local authority consultancy, same type of work as we have to bid to win it, same hours as we are constrained by client budget, less pay, no car allowance, no bonus, I get 5 more days holiday and pension is slightly better at the moment. Once the construction industry picks up Ill probably return to private employment.

I have dealt with many private companies that I don’t know how they survive, totally bad public relations. It totally depends on the company or person you deal with in my experience.

That’s what the Bullingdon Boys like to hear ……. don’t demand a better deal for private sector workers – demand a worse deal for public sector workers ! And ffs don’t blame the bankers if life is getting a little difficult.

You are right, bankers did alot to get us into this $hitty position and may they rot in hell for it but the point here is that LA staff were overpaid for under delivering for years and it was only New Labour largesse (that was up there with bankers for deserving blame) that allowed this to continue for so long. And now its catching up with them.

How do you work out overpaid and underdelivering?

How do you work out overpaid and underdelivering?

Read it in the Daily Mail ?

Thats my guess. Like all employees council ones vary from dedicated professionals to bumbling amateurs.

Like all employees council ones vary from dedicated professionals to bumbling amateurs.

Although council employees are less likely to be amateurs and more likely to be better qualified than their private sector counterparts – daddy owning the company won’t get you very far in the public sector.

you may be flattering them with “work out” TJ

How do you work out overpaid and underdelivering?

Easy. Paid say £25,000 when £20,000 would be enough (hence ‘overpaid’) and then to add insult to injury not even be very good at the job, (hence to ‘under deliver’).

iirc dont the large majority of council employees already earn under the national average wage?

Surely the council has to legally look at all options before moving to redundancy which includes establishing if anyone is prepared to take a pay cut or have their contractual conditions changed.

you have defined what the words mean not why they apply to all public sector workers …see you were flattering TJ 😉
You need to explain/prove they are overpaid – not give me a hypothetical example- and now explain why they are not delivering.

So explain why a new entrant is overpaid and why teachers underperform – perhaps you can use exam results as proof of the later

Easy. Paid say £25,000 when £20,000 would be enough (hence ‘overpaid’) and then to add insult to injury not even be very good at the job, (hence to ‘under deliver’).

So tell me hh45, every time you deal with a local authority employee do you ask them for details of their wages and conditions, and then give them a “performance” mark, which you then compare with the wages & conditions of every private sector employee which you have dealings with and which you have similarly marked for performance?

What percentage of Britain’s local authority employees do you think you have managed to process so far? And how do you find time to get on with your job and earn a living?

Likewise earnie presumably you research all private sector company employees you come in contact to check whether their parents own the company? ? 😀 **** love stw I do!

Likewise earnie presumably you research all private sector company employees you come in contact to check whether their parents own the company? ? **** love stw I do!

😀 Are you suggesting that some LA employees have a job only because ‘daddy owns the company’ ? Or are you suggesting that no one in the private sector has ever had a job because ‘daddy owns the company’ ? ……what are you saying ?

And how does me saying “less likely” translate into me saying “all private sector company employees” eh? ……explain that one too please.

So just a thought, you don’t get MPs employing members of there family as researchers? Or getting nice jobs in Brussels? etc.

Although council employees are less likely to be amateurs and more likely to be better qualified than their private sector counterparts – daddy owning the company won’t get you very far in the public sector.

When I read that I presumed you were implying that private sector workers are “amateurs” and that they get where they do in a company because their “daddy” owns the company.

Now i realise you didnt mean anything by it, the daddy comment was just a bit of a troll :~)

Safe to say their are lazy chunts in both the public and private sectors. I think you should have to earn your rights on both sides rather than just expecting them.

😛

One thing that’s being missed here is that public bodies can’t go bust so there’s no incentive to work hard. If a private firm is rubbish they go bust or really struggle. Also, I’m not forced to use the services of rubbish private firms – if I don’t like what I get for my money, I go elsewhere.

With public bodies, I’m forced to pay for them, often upon pain of imprisonment, even if I don’t want / or like what I get.

I’ve seen useless,lazy idiots on both sides – it’s just that there’s a lot more of them in the public sector.

And if it makes any difference, I hate New Labour, who built the economic house of cards, just as much as I hate the bankers who brought it all down on our heads.

it’s just that there’s a lot more of them in the public sector.

Really? Evidence? I have seen far more in private sector myself

why are some councils seem completely screwed with huge savings to be made and yet cheshire west only having to save £9m per year?

chunky paul – the way the cuts are being done it means greater cuts in area of greatest need.

As a teacher I think it is a great idea that the overpaid support staff are getting pay and conditions chopped. My life is going to be so much easier now I don’t have to do any activities such as DoE/rugby club/school trips etc. Because without the support staff none of these things will run in my school,or if I think about it,either of the other two I have worked in. But as long as the council doen’t look at WHY support staff get overtime/shift allowance they should sleep easy in their beds.

Funnily enough TJ I’ve never seen a formal report into competence levels in the different sectors. However, having had a mix of private and public clients, I can honestly say that working with public clients is generally like pulling teeth – no one takes reponsibility for anything, decisions are all by committee so are watered down, they’re all out the door on the dot and they’re more concerned with politics rather than results. There are some real stars but they’re few and far between.

The private sector isn’t perfect by any measure, but at least I’m not forced to pay for their services/products if I don’t like them.

So you don’t have any gas or electric? figures.

This BS is happening accross the board. My little part time, local authority job has just been ‘vanished’. It’s not too bad for me – I’m self employed and the two shifts a week just got me out of the house and away from the computer for eight hours a week.

However, there are / were loads of us on a PVH (permanent, variable hours) contract – some of us working up to 40 hours a week who have all suddenly had the carpet pulled out from under us. People with mortgages and kids.

Three years ago they did away with guaranteed hours contracts and we all found ourselves fighting for shifts on PVH contracts. We were suddenly employed on an as-and-when-required basis, with no onus on the City of Sunderland Council to give us any hours at all.

So last month, when the new boss was told to cut staffing hours, those of us without ‘proper’ contracts were the easy target and we were informed we no longer had jobs. We would be kept on the books, so no redundancies / payouts, and we might get called in once a month to cover sickness / holidays if we waited with our caps in our hands….

No fat pensions for us – in fact; no job at all. hh45 – you are dangerously mis-informed.