look after your own kids I'm having a day off!!

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  • look after your own kids I'm having a day off!!
  • bigyinn
    Member

    At least they have a contributory pension scheme….

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Ooh, I get to have the whole family home on my birthday 🙂

    Day out I reckon.

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    An affordable, contributory pension scheme. Its a political attack on the public sector. We should be making the private sector give their employees decent pension schemes not cutting the pensions of public sector workers. The pensions crisis is not the cost of public sector pensions – that is easily affordable. its the lack of private sector pensions – and who will foot the bill for that – thats right – the taxpayer will pay the meagre pensions of the private sector.

    Teh condems will either have to back downor we will see industrial action that is unparalleled in the UK for decades

    falkirk-mark
    Member

    look after your own kids I’m having a day off!!

    I never realised it was a childminding service

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    Or, just as a crazy idea, we all recognise that pensions were fine when (1) people lived until about 70 and (2) the baby boomers took out more than they paid in.

    Neither of those things exisat any more, so we need to address our own provision for old age (including continuing to work beyond retirement, or just a large scale culling programme).

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    continuing to work beyond retirement

    Isn’t that an oxymoron?

    The pension problem is an issue for those in middle years who suddenly find they are facing a ‘pension shortfall’ and have relatively few years to make up the difference.

    At least teachers have a fund – the police pension system is funded entirely from contributions with no fund at all – it’s going to be a nightmare with falling police numbers and a large number of forced retirements.

    Premier Icon stumpyjon
    Subscriber

    I can see both sides of it. If I were in their position I’d fight to see what I already had wasn’t eroded. On the other hand we can’t afford it. Listening to the ATL spokes woman she did make some valid points and at the very least it seems to have been clumsily handled (as usual) by the government. She did rather shoot herself in the foot though when answering the interviewers question as to why teachers were any different to anyone else in seeing their pensions dwindle. She started off by saying teachers were on a two year pay freeze, so are practically all other workers.

    Does sound though like yet another thing badly managed first by Labour and now being compounded by the condems. At least Dave will probably step in and personally listen to the teachers and make a big U turn. Makes you wonder if any of their policies are based upon principles.

    Premier Icon stumpyjon
    Subscriber

    Teh condems will either have to back downor we will see industrial action that is unparalleled in the UK for decades

    Can’t see that they can back down, governments have been promising all sorts of things we can’t afford for years, it’s just come to a head when the credit dried up. ourmaninthenorth makes a pretty valid point.

    Premier Icon oxym0r0n
    Subscriber

    continuing to work beyond retirement

    Isn’t that an oxymoron?

    I’ll have you know I am NUT and voted against strike action, despite the fact that I am going to loose out over all this… 🙂

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    an oxymoron, not the 🙂

    My wife voted for. She can take the kids to the picket line with her 😉

    Junkyard
    Member

    On the other hand we can’t afford it.

    it is a contributory pension scheme paid for by teachers. There is an agreement in place that any shortfall will be met by increased contributions by teachers and not by “us”.

    Under the Government’s proposals, contributions would rise from 6.4 per cent of salary to an average of between 9.5 and 9.8 per cent by 2014/15.

    A teacher earning £35,000 a year would have to pay an extra £100 a month, while pensions would shift from a final-salary scheme to career- average.
    so pay more and get less quite a hard sell wahtever your view is on this you cannot really expect those on the recieving end to not be annoyed with this.

    Frankenstein
    Member

    I don’t blame teachers walking out, Gove has made their careers hell.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    I agree with tandem boy 😯

    CaptJon
    Member

    Can’t see that they can back down, governments have been promising all sorts of things we can’t afford for years, it’s just come to a head when the credit dried up. ourmaninthenorth makes a pretty valid point.

    Really? They’ve spent most of this year changing their policies because they were poorly conceived.

    kaesae
    Member

    Simply simptoms of a larger problem, we have individuals in charge of our resources that cannot mananage resources.

    We have a culture and way of life that see’s massive waste by individuals and collectively.

    What is required is a revolutionary philosophy and way of life!

    We all need to be involved in claiming a better future for our species, not moaning when the idiots who step forwards and talk utter shite, cannot deliver.

    Assholes = shit happening, simple!

    Junkyard
    Member

    Kaesae if your post had random caps lock i would give it 9 a it is 7 out of 10 as you almost make sense in parts

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    Simply simptoms of a larger problem, we have individuals in charge of our resources that cannot mananage resources.

    They’re not concerned with resources.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    It’s not the civil servants fault their terms have been so generous, but it is no longer affordable, so will have to be changed.

    Everyone will have to accept that we will either have to:

    a) work longer
    b) contribute more into our pensions
    c) get less back from our pensions
    d) stop the NHS treating anyone over 70 to reduce the elderly population
    e) a combination of the above

    To be honest, I’m a civil servant, and I’ve not voted for strike action, and I don’t know anyone who has. Most of us doubt we’ll still have jobs beyond 2013 in our little corner due to proposed legislative changes, we really couldn’t give a stuff about pensions in 20-30 years time!

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    Everyone will have to accept that we will either have to:

    a) work longer
    b) contribute more into our pensions
    c) get less back from our pensions
    d) stop the NHS treating anyone over 70 to reduce the elderly population
    e) a combination of the above

    a)Crack down on tax evasion
    b)Stop tax avoidance
    c)Cut our military spending
    d)All of the above

    we really couldn’t give a stuff about pensions in 20-30 years time!

    And people retiring in 5-10 years?

    headfirst
    Member

    Solidarity comrade! I’m in the NASUWT so won’t be out on strike, although I’m all for it. My union line is now is not the right time, which I tend to agree with.

    That’s the way forward morecash, just accept what’s coming. Now would you prefer to be lying down or bent over?

    Whitish
    Member

    I’m in the NUT and I voted against. Obviously, selfishly, I don’t want to lose out – which I inevitably will when compared to teachers who have retired recently, but I also don’t want to strike. I quite like going to work.

    At the end of the day, pensions for teachers will be cut in some way. We’re not the worst off though.

    I just want a nice quiet life, being with my family, doing the job I love (despite many ridiculous hoops I have to jump through), and riding my bikes.

    headfirst
    Member

    post self-censored

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    Its not unaffordable! What is unaffordable is that the taxpayer will have to pick up the bill for all the pensioned private sector employees. teachers pay for their own pensions.

    Its a disguised attack on the public sector – the politics of envy. Don’t be conned

    Whitish
    Member

    Fair enough. In the political arena, it isn’t really good enough to ‘put up and shut up.’ I still like my job though. And my bikes. And my family (in that order!)

    Premier Icon maxray
    Subscriber

    Argh **** teachers…. :s be thankful you have a pension!

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    @Junkyard

    TinyURL it this site doesn’t like long addresses with lots of / in them.

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    teachers pay for their own pensions.

    Surely this is the point that should be shouted out above anything else?

    headfirst
    Member

    junkyard, that makes interesting reading with lots of good bits in and amongst I especially like:

    The real problem in UK pension provision lies not with public sector pensions but with the private sector where employers are increasingly seeking to evade their pension responsibilities to their workforce. We ask the Hutton Commission to take the opportunity offered by its remit to comment on that area and not restrict its views solely to the public sector pension schemes.

    Oh and maxray, thanks for your considered contribution. Nob.

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    The real problem in UK pension provision lies not with public sector pensions but with the private sector where employers are increasingly seeking to evade their pension responsibilities to their workforce

    Why doesn’t the government go after…oh hang on.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    Everyone will have to accept that we will either have to:
    a) work longer
    b) contribute more into our pensions
    c) get less back from our pensions
    d) stop the NHS treating anyone over 70 to reduce the elderly population
    e) a combination of the above

    A combination of the above was achieved when teachers’ pensions were renegotiated a couple of years ago, to make them sustainable in the long term.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    My understanding is that accrued pension rights will be protected, so those retiring sooner will have less pain than those with many years to come.

    I’m not bending over, just pragmatic – personal and public finances in this country are in a mess, we are all going to take a hit in some form, even with these changes a lot of us in the civil service will still be in a better position than many in the private sector.

    I’d sooner be part of the (unpleasant) solution, rather than part of the continuing problem.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    If they want a better pension why don’t they opt out of the government pension scheme and take out their own private one?

    Oh yes, I think I know… would it be that the government one gives a better return for the amount paid in than any private pension could.

    headfirst
    Member

    muffin-man I refer you to mine and lifer’s previous post

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    muffin-man I refer you to mine and lifer’s previous post

    Not quite sure what you mean. I’m not on about the government pursuing private firms and forcing them to make pension provisions for their staff.

    My point is that if a teacher is unhappy with their pension, what is to stop them going to their local financial advisor and saying “I’d like to start a pension please, and I’d like to pay in £xxx per month”. Do they have pay into a government scheme, or could they transfer those funds pay into a private scheme if they wished?

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    The point is the teachers are happy with their pensions which have been reformed to be affordable and no burden on the taxpayer.

    Unlike the private sector who make such poor provision for their staffs pensions that the taxpayer will have to pick up the tab.

    the-muffin-man – – don’t be suckered by the moral panic created by the tories and the right wing press whos aim is to destroy the public sector.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    Sorry, just spotted TJ’s comment about this being “the politics of envy”

    Who said he can’t do irony!

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    If they want a better pension why don’t they opt out of the government pension scheme and take out their own private one?

    We don’t want a better pension; we’re happy with the current one. It’s the proposed changes which are the issue.

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