I have recently moved to Nelson NZ, and riding my Giant Anthem (27.5) here. The problem is that the trails are super steep and aggressive and I constantly feel under-biked (if thats a word!) with a XC bike with ony 100mm travel.
I have been looking at selling it but I cant really afford what I want (something long travel like a Giant Reign which is what most people ride here).
So my question is would a long travel hardtail (150-160mm travel) be more capable and more forgiving than my full sus? I have been thinking about a plus sized frame as well which I presume would be compensate for a lack of skill on my part.
Any thoughts appreciated, but I cant find more money so thats not a option.

I have both and of course it’s horses for courses. My anthem is probably my least favourite bike. Yeah it’s great at going fast up hills (not steep ones though) and on the flat but compared to my other bikes it’s very nervous on most things downhill. I do get used to it but you realise other bikes are more suitable when the going gets rowdy. In honesty it’s not a fun bike and I prefer the trance I used to have which was much better downhill and nearly as good on the ups, flat and much better up steep stuff. I have a santacruz chameleon with fox talas that can be run at 160mm or 130mm. In 160mm it’s like a hard tail dh bike and on really steep descents feels great. I have always had hard tails and really like them and this feels as capable as my nomad when riding the rough stuff. But I never run it at 160mm. I’m much happier when it’s set at 130mm as the 160mm cocks up the handling for general riding and I still don’t change it if I’m jumping or on the dh track.
I guess what I’m trying to say that you may not need a long travel bike just one more suited to the riding you do. The anthem is a capable bike and I will ride pretty much anything from xc to a few runs on the dh track if I’m passing through but it’s not the best option for harder riding.

The slacker head angle will definitely help on the steep stuff, but the lack of any bounce at the back means that you have to ride very smoothly if you want to keep up the pace through rougher stuff. You’ll probably be fairly good at this coming from a short travel bike, so it should be a good transition for you. I’ve got a Dartmoor Hornet and it’s great fun as well as being a very affordable purchase frame only (£185!).

You should be able to get a great bike for not much money with a long travel hardtail, and as long as you’re not doing big drops or really rough stuff you should have a great time. Just be prepared to work the bike quite hard to keep up with your mates on full sussers.

When riding steep stuff I prefer comfortable geometry over anything else whether thats more travel or front and back travel.

Possibly a hardtail with slacker geom or larger front centre might help?

There’s been a few threads on LT hardtails recently, and the reasons for their popularity and their drawbacks etc.

Basically, to cut a long story short, what you gain in one hand you lose in the other.

Without getting too far into my own opinions on the whole matter, can you extend the travel on your current fork to 120mm perhaps? I’d say this would be the preferable option if you can’t afford a new LT FS bike right now myself.

I think it depends on your mentality andcwhere you ride. Personally I found the Anthem brilliant as long as you remained completely focussed, if you let your mind wander for a second it threw you on the floor. Compared to the ASR I rode before that which had less travel but slacker angles and was marginally more stable (but not much were still talking 69deg vs 70 or thereabouts).

A 5″ travel hardtail might be more capable in the types of riding it will flatter you on, and be stronger but it’s not faster.

I would not go down the 6″ hardtail route. IME they just dont work as well due to the imballance. In the same way you need some give in the forks (again IME) on a hardtail. Too burly a fork (lyric or 36) and it writes cheques the back end cant cash.

So a HT might feel more confident, and last longer ridden to its limits, but it wont keep up (unless you’re already slow on the anthem).

I’ve probably had the lot….

The LT Hardtail various 456 setups with forks up to 160mm, a complete laugh, burly chuck around fun BUT you need to work out the back very quickly. The technique is different but rewarding if you can ride it.

The Mid/LT Full Sus – done the 160mmm stuff and now in the 160mm Fork/140mm rear FS, the bike that comes out the most (the one that is out for tonight’s ride) take a look at used prices.

The XC bike, slightly different but my 100mm 29r is a blast and so much more capable than the numbers suggest, however it’s a very committing ride to get it properly going in technical stuff, it really would benefit from upping the fork to 120mm and fitting a dropper.

Short answer is there isn’t really something that does what the Mid/LT full sus does without a massive investment in skills (Strava does give me some faster times on the short bike on some trails – not as fast on the really tecchy bits but faster between them)

Advice – no idea 😉
Edit to add I have all 3 available at the moment just the HT never gets built up as given the choice I’d hardly ride it.

Cheers guys, Its nice to hear that the Anthem is not forgiving downhill because I have been crashing or close to a lot recently on these trails. I would agree that its not forgiving of even a little inattention. I have been managing to keep up with mates on long travel full sussers but i feel it at the end of the ride. I find I just blow through the travel so am constantly riding at my limits (and the bikes limits).

Nelson is known (in NZ) for having pretty hard and steep trails hence most people riding 6 inch full sussers. Having said that I have seen a few people out on the trails on long travel hardtails

. I find I just blow through the travel so am constantly riding at my limits (and the bikes limits).

Not trying to sound condescending but the bike limits are probably not being reached just what you can do with them. I’ve had the deciding short pleasure of following a couple of giants racers smashing down trails on anthems hitting gaps and looking more in control than people on long travel bikes and good tough trails. One of the local kiwi xc riders showed us what was possible on the giant xc ht complete with cross marks last time I was over. Very impressive.

Try some low pressure grippy dual ply tyres, and a dropper post.

Or sell up and get a used 150-160mm full sus.

Anthems are pretty adaptable. May be worth trying a longer fork and angleset or offset bushings, plus dropper and wide bars? If you still don’t get on with it then they can all go to the HT.

More capable, yes, more forgiving, it depends. However, offset bushings, bigger stickier tyres, wider bars and a shorter stem and an angleset will make a pretty big difference to your Anthem. Also, if you’re blowing through the travel then add some volume spacers to shock and fork and consider running less sag at both ends, especially on the fork as that’ll slacken it out and hold the front end up on steep trails – 20% shock sag and 10% fork sag wouldn’t seem extreme to me. And if your fork can be extended to 120mm by opening it up and changing something, do that too.

😀

Some of the advice up there is good. Sort your current bike out; shorter stem/bars and proper tyres to start with.

You haven’t found the limits of your Anthem; you’ve just been uncovered as a lesser rider; your short comings in technique and ability are exacerbated by your current bike.

A long travel hardtail is never the answer to any “what bike do I need” question.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fork-travel-on-hardtails-how-much-is-too-much

I think what’s been decided on the forum (and probably by the bike industry as a whole) over the last few days, is that I am correct, and short travel hardtails are better 😉

26er here so yours is already slacker. Big tubeless low pressure tyre, 120 fork and an offset bush is the answer 🙂

Nice to know people are full of compliments here this morning! I dont think my riding has ever been so insulted by people who havent ever seen me ride.

May just be trolls but I know I am reaching the bikes limits. I am still riding the same trails at the same speed as some capable riders who are on LT full sussers.

I have wide bars on it already, and am running tubeless ardents. I think this is maybe UK perspective because believe me the trails here dont compare with the UK.

OP, my 2 cents.

You have moved to a completely different type of riding and as such the bike you had is far from ideal, that you know. TBH a long travel hardtail isn’t perfect either but it would be better. I ride my 150mm BFe most of the time including on steeper technical trails as it makes them more fun (ie harder) than my 160mm Covert. When I travel to Alps etc I always take the Covert as its the right bike for that.

By all means try some fatter tyres also with a more suitable tread but you best solution is to find a FS, even a 140mm enduro bike, which is better suited than your XC focused Anthem. Look at second hand too

OP

To improve as a rider, you’ve got to be able to take both positive and negative comments on-board. How else are you meant to improve? How do you think everyone on here got so good? By living in cloud cuckoo land?

No; we all went on a skills course, where we were told how shit we were, and then where we could improve.

Do you think local legend and world cup hero Brook MacDonald could ride your bike faster down your trails?…… It looks like you haven’t found the limits of your bike then.

was thinking the same, then swapped bikes at BPW from FS to friends hard tail. Glad I did. Gave me an instant reminder of the benefits of FS. Hard tail is now off the list 🙂

May just be trolls but I know I am reaching the bikes limits. I am still riding the same trails at the same speed as some capable riders who are on LT full sussers.

So my question is would a long travel hardtail (150-160mm travel) be more capable and more forgiving than my full sus? I have been thinking about a plus sized frame as well which I presume would be compensate for a lack of skill on my part.

You said it yourself.

The answer is, a new bike won’t make you significantly faster. It might be stronger, or feel less out of it’s depth, but a HT will probably be slower.

5 years ago Dirt started publishing timed runs down a local DH track in their bike reviews (a bit like Top Gear and the Stig), but then dropped it when they found that pretty much any bike regardless of how bad was within a second of the best bike, and even 5-6″ travel trail bikes were getting the same times. Pinkbike did a test with Warner recently and found he was only 11s off the pace on a bike 20 years old, 2 sizes too small, on 20 year old tyres and horribly under sprung.

It’s never about the bike.

This is ‘XC’, what the Anthem is designed for.

If funds are limited I’d get a decent secondhand 26″ AM bike from a couple of years ago, maybe going up a size on the frame and fitting offset bushings

Something like the original NP Mega maybe.

Someone always posts a bloody Nino picture when they’re trying to tell people how good XC bikes are.

Okay, you’re not the fastest rider in the world but you don’t have to be to make an XC bike feel twitchy and dangerous. And yes a burly hardtail would feel a bit more capable as it’s more about geometry than suspension travel.

When I was between bikes I used to borrow my Dad’s Giant XTC and it was downright lethal on the stuff I like to ride. Didn’t stop me from trying though. Now I have a Bfe with a 150mm fork and I ride it everywhere including all DH tracks around here.

If I can crash on your floor in NZ for a few weeks you can have my bike to do back to back testing.

if i lived anywhere with ‘proper’ trails i`d have a bigger bike than an anthem. purely as it will beat you up less and therefore you can ride more.

you can make the anthem less twitchy but usign offset bushings and a 130mm fork but it`ll still beat you up if its rough.

It’s not relevant to post pictures of the best riders in the world and infer that the Anthem is all you need.

Plebs like me will never reach those levels of skill or fitness and won’t be able to use gear in the same way. Running more capable equipment than the trail ‘needs’ compared to world class atheletes may make me over gunned, but allows a greater safety margin and allows me to achieve a bit more fun.

Given we’re talking about mere mortals here, it’s perhaps more appropriate to say, ‘its a bit about the bike’ and really, ‘it’s a kind of really complicated feedback system involving the synergy of skills, equipment and type of trail’.

IMO of course.

The only thing I’m certain of is that riding a hardtail in the terrain you describe WILL make you a better rider and that can’t be a bad thing. I reckon your learning curve will be pretty step too, especially if you’re used to the Anthem doing the work for you. If you go hardtail, be prepared to feel rubbish until it ‘clicks’.

It’s not relevant to post pictures of the best riders in the world and infer that the Anthem is all you need.

Thats not what we were saying, it’s countering the point that the anthem was at it’s limits.

It’s not relevant to post pictures of the best riders in the world and infer that the Anthem is all you need.

+1

STWers in unnecessarily pedantic shocker.

Surprised we haven’t had “my mate rode the WC track at Fort Bill on an Anthem” yet.

Getting back on track, I’d give it a whirl but I’m a fan of long travel hardtails and have just sacked off my AM bike.

I had a Banshee Rune which I loved and enjpyed riding on all sorts of terrain but there was no getting away from the fact that it was a lot of bike. It was hugely capable too – far more than myself as a rider. I swapped my small muck about hardtail for one that fitted and I found myself riding the hardtail more and more. The last straw was a day out in Wales on the stuff that I told myself I’d keep the Rune for and I spent the day wishing I was on my hardtail. In the end I sold my steel Switchback and the Rune and bought the Ti version of the Switchback.

With 140mm travel and a slack head angle, the Switchback feels pretty good to me. I don’t feel that it holds me back too much either – I’m not getting destroyed by the others that I ride with who mostly ride full sus bikes. It is slower through the really rough stuff that I could batter through on the Rune but it’s still a lot of fun. It’s more fun on the tamer stuff too.