Really struggling with identifying a frame I want.

I used to have an Orange P7 when they first came out in 1996. It was fully rigid, 130mm stem flat 23″ bars and bar ends. I used to ride out 20 miles on road to find trails that crossed the mountain then I’d ride the 20 miles home. The bike was ideal for this in many ways because the riding position was almost road like, I guess you could call it XC race too. Ideal for power but also comfy.

Fast forward almost 20 years and I don’t like riding my FS bikes on road, because I sit too upright. It feels slow and inefficient. So I’m in the market for a frame and rigid fork on which I could do this kind of riding but also one day hopefully the Tour Divide.

I can’t see past the Inbred 29er for the price. £450 ish would be the limit for frame and fork, pref less of course. Looked at Stooge and whilst it looks great I don’t think it’s the style of bike I want.

Also doesn’t need to be steel. The carbon On Ones are a lot lighter but no rack mounts. This is a bit of a downer but are rack mount worth the extra weight?

Try and get in on the Rooster kickstarter? A few folks are pulling out I see and the Rooster would be ideal for what you describe.

I ride my stooge on big miles…3″ knard up front. Did 101 miles last week off-road..super comfy. My go to bike
I plan to do the Highland Trail on it next May

Last year I rode the Highland Trail on a rigid El-Mariachi again with Knard up-front and again it was a very comfy mile muncher.

For comfort I’d be saying to get a good steel frame and put on a set of ESI grips.

I would advise you to use frame bags from Alpkit,revelate,wildcat etc over panniers so wouldnt really worry about rack mounts.

Have you looked at a Fargo or dropped bar monster cross?

Everyone advises me to use frame bags but am not decided yet, plus there may be other times when panniers are best.

I don’t think the 29er Inbred is up to much,it’s a bit of a crate & a heavy one at that TBH.

Before I get ripped a new A-hole – I usually like On One frames & love riding my 29er Scandal & old 26″ Inbred,but the 29″ Inbred just doesn’t do it for me.I’ve owned it over 5 years & would sell it,but it owes me nothing.I even keep putting it back together every now & again,in the vain hope it will make me like it !

I use a scandal with a rigid done a 100miler from the peak to linclonshire, Plus the bhf 40 miler.
Thought about sceond hand?

Pretty happy with our Surly Ogres. They are Karate Monkeys with loads of brackets, lugs etc. I use mine for touring with our kids, typcially 3 weeks yearly as well as for mtb etc. I don’t do a lot of mtb these days. Othersie the El Mariachi or Fargo etc.

Genesis longitude?

Didn’t think Inbred was much heavier than the typical steel 29er? 5.5lbs ish?

Gryphon – good for that sort of thing.

As your distances increase you’ll probably want to be reducing weight wherever possible – especially if you’re thinking about something like the TDR. It doesn’t make much sense to start off with something heavier than it absolutely has to be. I know the Inbred looks like a cheap starting point but by the time you factor in all the other costs of getting a good, lightweight spec and good, lightweight, equipment it would be foolish to penny-pinch on something so fundamental.

I know you’ve done the panniers vs. bags thing to death on here already and I’d just re-iterate that the soft bags are the way to go (having said that, I had rack mounts put onto my Burls – just in case 🙂 )

2nd hand Swift frame and some time at your local frame builder adding rack mounts?

Depends how much luggage you need/want to take, I can get a tent, sleeping bag, inflating mat, stove/pan, 2 days minimalist food (noodles x6), and a tent in a frame bag, drybag on the bars and a seatpack.

Panniers are great but I’d say they’re more suited to traditional more ‘gentlemanly’ touring where you’d be packing for days off the bike as well, and only covering moderate mileages, rather than ‘fast and light’ bivying.

Didn’t think Inbred was much heavier than the typical steel 29er? 5.5lbs ish?

Never weighed it(never weigh any bikes)so have no idea of actual weight,but it weighs more than the 29er Scandal(no surprise there),but the Scandal soaks up bumps like it’s the one made of steel & rides far more like the 26″ Inbred.

I had a similar feeling regarding my fs so bought a Spesh Carve Expert a while back as I wanted a bike that had that ability to do it all, like my Fisher from BITD.

Since the move to the name Crave I think they dropped the rack mounts to focus it more as an xc race bike but you can still get Carve frames.

Carve Pro frame

I ran mine with bar ends, etc.

Although now my son has it, though without the bar ends and set up with his choice of contact points.

Surly Krampus or ECR, Genesis Longitude, or Singular Rooster if you want the 29+ option.

Personally I love my Krampus. Although it’s undoubtedly a little heavier than some of the other options it would not let you down. Surly bikes are built for exactly the kind of long distance adventures your interested in.

I’ve a Tinbred with rigid carbon forks which did 4500km in the last year. Some long rides up to 225km on the bearbones 200 this month.

If I was buying a bike for this type of riding now I’d buy the same again (if I could find one!) but want either a tapered or oversize headtube. Not because I think there’s essential for super accurate tracking and stiffness (or what ever the marketing speak is…) but because its becoming increasingly hard to fit ANY rigid forks with a straight steerer.

I wouldn’t want a carbon frame for something like the TDR – unless you can afford for to be potentially disposable. That sort of riding is seriously hard on bikes and I’ve seen a couple of carbon frames damaged to the point were I wouldn’t be happy to ride them. I don’t think the damage would have been the same on a ti or steel frame.

I’ve no concerns about carbon fibre given the abuse my road bike has had over the years. And steel is far from invincible of course. The TDR is a moderate year’s worth of riding and I would expect any bike to handle ten times that.

Re the rack, TDR aside I would be using the bike for lots of other things, and rack mounts would be handy. Particularly when travelling for work. I could do bike/train and still have a decent MTB to ride in the evenings which would be a huge plus for me.

Last year I rode the Highland Trail on a rigid El-Mariachi again with Knard up-front and again it was a very comfy mile muncher.

I’ve got a couple of El Mariachis, one rigid SS and one hardtail, and while they’re pretty much the same bike I do prefer the rigid fork for mile munching duties. At no point have I ever missed not having rack mounts, as soft luggage is the way to go. A rack adds weight before you even consider panniers, whereas a bar harness, seatpack and frame bag setup holds almost as much but with a considerable weight saving.

I’m thinking 29+ up front for the HTR this year, as I wasn’t riding fast enough to benefit from the 100mm Reba I ran this year – it was just good from a wrist comfort perspective and the 3″ tyre serves the same purpose with a weight and simplicity benefit.

Was going to suggest AlasdairMc for information!

I think I’m right in thinking that McMoonter also has an El Mariachi and just did some reasonably serious touring on it just recently.

What about a touring/cyclocross bike built up appropriately?

FWIW, Salsa do a rear rack for the El Mariachi, though you can make an ordinary one fit if you’ve a mind.

Surly Karate Monkey?

I have done some big rides on mine, fully rigid with a 2.4 tyre at the front.

People have done the Divide race on them too.

Frame and Fork would be in your budget too!

Singular Gryphon can take a 29er+ in the front and 2.4 in the rear and is really comfortable on long rides.

I have an On One and Karate Monkey. The KM gets used most. But both brill in their own way…..the KM copes well with distance. I did the 100 mile Gravel Dash on it. Luverley……

Surly Ogre looks good but is a bit lardy.

ogre
karate monkey
disc trucker
fargo
el mariachi
swift
charge cooker 1,2,3,4,5
genesis fortitude
genesis longtitude
troll
inbred
p29
ff29
krampus
ecr
various hardtail alloy 29rs

I’ve had an Inbred 29er (in SS flavour) and it was great for what you’re describing. Plus it was incredible VFM. I now have a Swift (old-style) which I’d say is perfect for your needs. The new ones will take a 29+ front, which adds even more flexibility. All the others on that list up there will do it, too, to a greater or lesser extent.

If you’re unsure, get an Inbred and see if you like it.

I rode 100 miles Cambridge to London on my scandal earlier this year and kept pace with the roadies. Setup was MKM carbon forks up front, rapid robs 2.35 60psi. 1X9 38t front 11-32 cassette. It wasn’t too bad but i think if i was going to do it again i would put some proper slicks or semi slicks on it.

Well that’s it, Inbred wins on price easily. I’m not likely to be able to test ride these things after all so I might as well.

I have a large Gryphon frame and forks and some spare luxy drops you are welcome to borrow to try out if you like. Based in Swansea.

My sliding drop-out Inbred’s set with Salsa Enabler forks and a SS rear wheel in the front. There’s nothing expensive or fragile on it, it’s covered lots of miles in all weathers and usually loaded. Never missed a beat, never let me down. It might be a little heavier than some but once you start loading bikes up things tend to equal themselves out 😉

Does the gryphon require drops? Are flats too high?

Re the Inbred, I don’t think they are that heavy, 5.5lbs iirc. Have to spend a lot more to knock 1/2 lb off, or forgo the rack mounts to knock 2lbs off…

Second hand fortitude. Very comfy with right tyres and pressures.

you can run gryphon with flats

A bit of bed time reading for you

Touring bike guide

remove “v=7” from the end of duntstick’s link above

Surly Karate Monkey Ops looks like a favourite currently. If, as it looks, the modular vertical dropouts also include rack eyes.

I went down the fully rigid carbon route but a non-branded open mould jobbie from China

Frame, forks and carbon rims for all under £350 posted

Very light and stuff but quite comfortable too

No issues and has survived over 2 years of bike packing and long distance adventures

Got damaged a few weeks back on the bb200 but got patched up without any problems

Would recommend

I have a 1997 P7 in the garage that I’ve had since new. Always said I would never part with it. I bought a Karate Monkey singlespeed and its the best bike I’ve ever owned including the P7. Bought the KM for the same reasons as OP. The P7 is on its way out.

Travers Rudy Fat 29er+
Perfect for what you want and pannier mounts can be added as it’s built for you.
I love mine.

I think the main thing is to get the ride position right – the ‘road-like’ position you describe may not be great for long back to back days but I know what you mean about the feel of a rigid vs a susser for road miles. I find even a comfy day-ride bike reveals niggles after a 5 days to a week of long miles. When I get on my ‘week-comfy’ bike it does feel a bit pedestrian, 15-20mm higher at the front with loads of soft bar tape, but I know it’s comfy for the long haul. Long rides are about comfort management as much as anything else.
Weight – 5.5lbs is ok, a super-light 29er in steel would save a pound but may risk being flexy when loaded. Much over 5.5lbs and I’d be wondering why it was getting that heavy though. Carbon and ti will be lighter but when building up for a big ride I’m happy to be on a steel bike, the idea of a crack half-way along the route or any damage in transit, or a week before you leave etc derailing all that work.. the pound or so of weight meant nothing compared to piece of mind.
You can save more than that with what you pack, I’m always amazed by just how much stuff people load onto the ‘TD rigs’ you see posted up. Seatpacks 3 feet long etc.