Transport Scotland has just issued a public consultation document on the future of rail service in Scotland. There's only a brief mention of bikes and nothing about how they help the Scottish Government meet its CO2 reduction targets.
Have a read and get responding!!!
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Would be absolutely mental to can the sleeper service IMO. It's ace.
Not sure you really need the sleeper when you can get to London in 4 1/2 hrs.
I can get to London faster by train than plane from my town.
30 years ago it took about 6 days to get to London, well thats what it felt like to me as a young lad!!
Not sure you really need the sleeper when you can get to London in 4 1/2 hrs.
Except that half the day has gone, the point of the sleeper isn't the speed of the journey it's the time you arrive
Except that from oop north it's actually 7 and a half hours. Even longer if you really are up north.
I'm headed to that there Lahndahn later in the month. Would have taken the train except it takes to **** long. Havent done it in years as it's realllllllly boring. It's bad enough by the time you get to Newcastle!
train to london rocks, as long as you have a seat and it isn't xmas. what better way to enjoy the UK scenery with a good book and music.
The sleeper concept and heritage is ace, no doubt, but it needs a lot of work right now. A start would scotrail actually being proud of it and get behind it more - it's like they're scared to run an ad campaign because the trains are old (which they are, let's face it).
It's tough because Edinburgh airport is very good and close in by most city's standards. People are prepared to endure the 5am start and general bolloxology of domestic flying if it means a night in their own bed. The sleeper is sort of civilised in concept, but sharing a really small cabin (seriously, it's hard to get dressed) with a stranger and a bunkbed erodes the quality somewhat. [It's different in first class, but I've not had the pleasure].
So unless you've got an odd timetable, like you really need to be in central London up to 10pm, or you have a very early meeting, flying is always going to be top dog.
New rolling stock would make an enormous change here, but a big investment.
I go down to London very regularly on business and would love to use the train. Problem is that it's usually cheaper and quicker to fly, and gives you more of the working day for meetings.
The sleeper is great in theory, but is expensive, and being a light sleeper I got about 30 mins sleep, even having taken a sleeping pill
Edit
[It's different in first class, but I've not had the pleasure].
Um, can I be the first to confess I found that document completely mystifying? It read like 20 essay questions from an exam! Am I looking at the wrong document?
I just want to ask for a few more bike spaces on the Aviemore trains so my mates and I can leave work on Friday and be in Aviemore Friday evening with our bikes... 
Fat chance I guess.
Would be absolutely mental to can the sleeper service IMO. It's ace.
worst night sleep i have ever had... both in std and 1st class..
though did get back from Inverness to London for £25 once after Lejog which was a deal....
If they revamp the train it *could* be great...
13thfloormonk - MemberAh - back on topic...
Um, can I be the first to confess I found that document completely mystifying? It read like 20 essay questions from an exam! Am I looking at the wrong document?I just want to ask for a few more bike spaces on the Aviemore trains so my mates and I can leave work on Friday and be in Aviemore Friday evening with our bikes... Fat chance I guess.
It's a consultation document, so it seems to be floating a few ideas in the hope that feedback (public and political) will give it some direction. Hence my suggestion that we actually do comment.....
Standing on a station platform the other day a mahoosive empty car transporter train went past.
I would go visit Scotland in the campervan every other week if I could just put it on a train and relax rather than having to die of boredom on the M6...
I would go visit Scotland in the campervan every other week if I could just put it on a train and relax rather than having to die of boredom on the M6...
thats such a good idea! I guess they would have to have some kind of channel tunnel type job though or everyone would get out for a sprinkle when it stops and get left behind/run over etc.
can't see much improvement in trains under this government though. or any...
That form looks like it is designed to put people off responding, but I will persevere and send some feedback.
It'll mainly be about bicycle service provision, as I'd love to be able to head to the higlands without taking a car more often, but hassle of bike booking puts me off.
I shall also request that drinking isn't banned on the trains as I quite enjoy a beer or glass of wine as I watch the countryside fly past.
In fact, if we could just have trains like they do in Germany I'd be very happy indeed. Decent affordable services, good bike storage provision and cold beer... surely it can't be that difficult.
phiiiiil - MemberYou'd be wanting Motorail then. Unfortunately, the last train for Scotland left about 16 years ago.
I would go visit Scotland in the campervan every other week if I could just put it on a train and relax rather than having to die of boredom on the M6...
The sleeper is seriously awful. Only booked as ba were on strike. Slept for about 5 minutes, 4 am rise to heathrow is preferable every time now...
I like the sleeper even from Edinburgh.
Going south, pint or two in the Hebrides or Guildford, couple of mini bottles of red in the cabin and an hour of DVDs to get you through the crashing around at Carstairs. Half decent night's sleep, wake up in Euston, shower in Virgin Lounge, set up for the day. Probably a slightly better night's sleep than a redeye flight though admittedly not great.
Going north, could do a dinner in London, jump on train, crash out and into work the next day and actually do stuff (unlike a double red-eye with a half-baked hangover which wiped me out for the rest of the week).
From Fort William it was the shizzle. Went to World Cup weekend, onto the train, bit of food, few scoops in the lounge, bed as the sun set over the mountains, woke up in Watford. In the Canary by 9. Apart from the culture shock (and if I am honest the mild hangover) it was the absolute bollocks.
I love the sleeper but this made me think a bit:
It costs around £21 million a year to provide the Caledonian Sleeper services, excluding the track access costs.
I can't see anything in the document about how much they take from ticket money, or passenger numbers on the sleeper though
And I agree the consultation is pretty off putting in format if it is really trying to get a lot of people to respond
£21m a year sounds like a lot.
But let's work this through.
But the sleeper runs 6 days a week, so it's £67,000 per operational day (£21m x 7/6 x 1/365), or £33,500 each for the northbound and southbound services.
There are basically 2 sleepers in each direction (Edinburgh+ Glasgow) and (Aberdeen, Inverness and Ft William) so on average each train costs £16,750 to operate.
There are (piecing things together from Wikipedia) 12 cabins on 6 carriages per combined train = 72 cabins, so you need to take £232 a cabin each way (ignoring seated sleeper).
Given a single first class is about £150, it's probably running at a loss.
But it is a great service.
Stu_N - MemberOccupancy rate?
so you need to take £232 a cabin each way (ignoring seated sleeper).
Occupancy rate?
No idea, but when I used it semi-regularly, you had to book a bit in advance to get a first class cabin otherwise you were in std class with a solo supplement (more expensive than 1st). Couldn't expect to book on the day and get on (once I had to get the Glasgow one cos Edinburgh was full). Always work paying so no great shakes for me.
No idea about Highland Sleeper, guess it is less well used, makes bigger losses, but much more important for businesses.
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