you throw a gel wrapper away on a ride you are no worse than a chav heaving a maccy d carton out of his corsa in a carpark.
no-one ever seems to admit littering do they. but i see the evidence on the side of the road daily. fag packets, plastic bottles, you name it, and it huge quantities as well.

i was brought up not to drop litter, and was told in no uncertain terms that anyone who drops litter is a complete scum bag. i obviously firmly believe this. i am fairly sure when i was at primary school we had talks etc about picking up litter. when i was a lad etc etc.

what has changed? is it now not socially unacceptable? it boils my p!

so, out of all the people saying just put it in a pocket, how many of you have entered a race?

Yep. Loads of races. Always try hard not to litter. Are you suggesting that you need to have raced to understand the justification for littering? 😯

The issue of empty gel wrappers being horrible and sticky is one reason I prefer to use gel flasks which don’t have that problem (though I have lost them in events a handful of times – very definitely not deliberate, it’s irritating to lose them).

no-one ever seems to admit littering do they. but i see the evidence on the side of the road daily. fag packets, plastic bottles, you name it, and it huge quantities as well.

I think you’ll find the people who do litter are either not the ones you’re talking to, or they’re keeping quiet.

Are we talking plastic wrappers here or are banana skins included? 😉

I make every effort to put bar wrappers and gels back into my pocket. For shorter races I normally do one pocket for new and old. I can see people dropping stuff accidentally though – I know I’ve got back with less wrappers than bars I ate occasionally. I’ve lost bottles without realising it for a few miles as well.

For the crc marathons one year you got half price gels for every wrapper you handed in.

To do it deliberately or knowingly is unnaceptable.

what has changed? is it now not socially unacceptable? it boils my p!

IU blame thatcher! actully you can it goes like this…………..

As a response to the IRA bombing campaign litter bins were removed from the streets as a totally ridiculous move by her government , couple this with the me me me attitude she espoused and you get littering

So its all Thatchers fault again 🙂

Surely that is the fault of the Irish. Also have you tried to hit a bin with a sticky gel wrapper at 30mph, tricky.

Surely that is the fault of the Irish

they didn’t help matters, but it was definitely Th*tcher’s fault.

Speshpaul – Think thats a bit OTT, “half the signage left up”, there was 6 signs left, i know this because i took them down 4 weeks ago after someone told me there was some left between stages 1 & 2.
We attempt to clear most rubbish generated by our events, even staying over an extra night to clear up on the Monday.
Go take another look now!

so, out of all the people saying just put it in a pocket, how many of you have entered a race?

What’s your point caller?

Racing makes them feel all self-important and aloof, like they are a superstar. Normal considerations of cleanliness and respect therefore don’t enter into it.

So that applies to all you sportiv riders also druid?

Why the heck don’t more people use gel flasks? They’re much quicker to use in a race, and no litter. I just mark mine so I know how much constitutes the equivalent of one gel pouch so I can pace my intake. Simple.

snipers in the trees. Its the only way

Why the heck don’t more people use gel flasks? They’re much quicker to use in a race, and no litter. I just mark mine so I know how much constitutes the equivalent of one gel pouch so I can pace my intake. Simple.

plus they save that horrible foil on fillings moment, shudder!

Groan this forum gets so boring sometimes!

MSP and pedalhead, how do you find those things work? Are they as rapid as a normal packet? They look to me like you’ll be there for some time waiting for the gel to get to the end of the container (Tomato sauce style)

Why the heck don’t more people use gel flasks? They’re much quicker to use in a race, and no litter. I just mark mine so I know how much constitutes the equivalent of one gel pouch so I can pace my intake. Simple.

Gonna have a look, nothing worse that riding to the finish or home covered in the aftermath of a gelgasm.

They look to me like you’ll be there for some time waiting for the gel to get to the end of the container (Tomato sauce style)

that’s the issue I had
you need a runny gel IMO

Why the heck don’t more people use gel flasks? They’re much quicker to use in a race, and no litter. I just mark mine so I know how much constitutes the equivalent of one gel pouch so I can pace my intake. Simple.

I have started doing this. You can get quite big gel bottles, 250ml, in runners shops, although I think they’re meant for water.
Anyway. My next task is to get the race energy drink/food sponsors to sell gel direct from a squirty container so I can fill my flask up at the race and never need gel sachets.
Some (Torq anyway) have the sample squirters, and bikefood did a big bottle to buy online.

you can mix the Torq powder up as gel apparently

I use the squeezy gel, which is runny, and comes in big refill bottles.

http://www.squeezy-nutrition.com/produkte/squeezygel/

What’s your point caller?

i just thought a lot of the people saying how wrong it is to drop racing litter wouldnt have actually been in the situation to say whether it was wrong, this being stw and all 😉

anyway, im not saying that dropping litter is right, im saying that in a race situation things change and seconds count. when youre trying to keep up with the guy in front the last thing that you need is to be faffing around finding somewhere to store youre sticky gel wrappers.

which is why the permitted drop zone is the best solution. keeps all the litter in one place and would take about 30 mins to clear up. im currently thinking about using double sided sticky tape on the frame though, might work on fairly dry races.

anyway, im not saying that dropping litter is right, im saying that in a race situation things change and seconds count. when youre trying to keep up with the guy in front the last thing that you need is to be faffing around finding somewhere to store youre sticky gel wrappers.

which is why the permitted drop zone is the best solution. keeps all the litter in one place and would take about 30 mins to clear up. .

as a volunteer race organiser with an all volunteer team you can put the wrappers in your pocket or take a DQ. It’s hard enough to get people to safety marshal never mind picking up rider rubbish which has blown all over the course from the “drop zone”.

float – Member

im saying that in a race situation things change and seconds count.

And everyone else is saying that actually, some things don’t change- littering is littering regardless.

And of course, everyone else will face the exact same rule, so nobody’s at a disadvantage.

Parr
“Speshpaul – Think thats a bit OTT, “half the signage left up”, there was 6 signs left, i know this because i took them down 4 weeks ago after someone told me there was some left between stages 1 & 2.
We attempt to clear most rubbish generated by our events, even staying over an extra night to clear up on the Monday.
Go take another look now! “

OTT, not really why didn’t clean up after yourself in the first place?
Took them down 4 weeks ago, really they were still up on friday.
By your own admittence you failed to clear up after your self and had to come back.
“Go take another look now!”Maybe you should take your own advise there.

MSP and pedalhead, how do you find those things work? Are they as rapid as a normal packet? They look to me like you’ll be there for some time waiting for the gel to get to the end of the container (Tomato sauce style)

yep as mentioned, I tend to use Torq gels which are quite thin & work just fine with gel flasks. I can fit four in a flask, and I keep regular & guarana (caffeine) ones separate. I also like the Gu gels but I reckon they’d be too thick for the flask.

Speshpaul – Member

OTT, not really why didn’t clean up after yourself in the first place?

Stuff gets missed sometimes- do you think they intentionally left signs up? If there’s any still there it’s because they don’t know they’re there- so why not tell him so he can get it sorted instead of emo-raging?

We’ve missed signs after innerleithen races, 2 different marshalls each think the other’s done a section… Easy done.

you can mix the Torq powder up as gel apparently

This is what I do (any energy powder will do – I’ve also used Hi5). The only secret is to use mostly plain with just a little bit of flavoured, as otherwise it’s overpowering. A lot cheaper than buying sachets (and more environmentally friendly).

If you want to use something which comes in a sachet, but is a bit thick, you can always add some water.

I’ve been using flasks for well over 10 years, and find they work just fine (I tend to use gel more when running – in which case I’ll also usually have a bladder with water, so just add a bit more water to the flask to get the last bit out if I need to). Actually better than sachets in a way, as to open them you just pull the top, and a lot quicker and easier to take a big slug of gel from.

Ban energy gel packets in racing then – makes sense. Everyone uses a gel bottle instead. Stop little very quickly

Because all the energy drink sponsors who support racing will love not being able to advertise their products!

The thing that puts me off gel flasks, and it’s a small point really, is the waste. I may start a race with 4 gels. I may use one, I may use all 4, doesn’t matter. If I put them all in a flask then they’re used either way. Even more annoying if you have a DNF for whatever reason, waste the entry fee and £5 of gels!

The thing that puts me off gel flasks, and it’s a small point really, is the waste. I may start a race with 4 gels. I may use one, I may use all 4, doesn’t matter

I used to give the top a wash and fill it up again, never emptied it

Northwind, its a course/stage race – so no one walks the course to tidy up. Someone has a bit of a go and takes some of their rubbish away, is that good enough?
Number the signs, employ someone who can count:-)
i don’t know on what basis you run your races on but the GE was/is a business, they need to do their job properly. It ain’t my job to tidy up after them. Thou if you read the thread from the start you might notice that i have.

emo-raging, well i’m not sure what that means, but i’m not rage, its Parr who is shouting the odds.

the last thing that you need is to be faffing around finding somewhere to store youre sticky gel wrappers

🙄

Why not have a final race after the event where the object is to collect as much litter as possible. The racer types get a second fix and the litter is cleaned up. Women are good a tidying – make it a woman’s race. Yeah.

The main theme in this thread seems to be one of blame and pointing a finger! Putting on an event is a huge undertaking and ‘we’ (participants) should all be very grateful that anyone is prepared to put themselves in the firing line! That said, there is no excuse whatsoever for litter under any circumstances ….. but, in a race things will get dropped accidentally.

A few years ago I took it upon myself to be self appointed litter picker for our local events, post event walking the whole course clearing any litter found. Net result was that each course used was clearer of litter than prior to the event. More often than not the bulk of the litter collected was not as a result of the race, Have occasionally managed to repatriate various lost bits with respective owners. The bottom line is I (as an Mtb’er and participant of the events) can defend against anyone who wades in complaining about the events (local dog walkers etc), which has happened. I will report back on Race forum, highlighting the quantities of trash and any items lost/found which raises awareness and hopefully improves the situation further.

Everyone is happy to enjoy the thrill of riding but what percentage here actually do something to ‘put a bit back’? Don’t worry about answering the question as actions speak louder than words. Just, if you want to do something, look up your local trail building group or even just go out for an hours walk and pick up a bit of litter around the trails, every little helps.

More often than not the bulk of the litter collected was not as a result of the race,

Reminds me of when my Dad was an area manager on the railways… He had a number of complaints from people whose houses backed onto the railway that there was a lot of rubbish being thrown from trains. He got together a team of folk and they went to clear it up. Said rubbish consisted of grass cuttings, fridges, car tyres and a bed. Just the sort of stuff folk throw out of trains 🙄

I’m not a fan of the litter nazis who are populating this thread! Banning gels, or counting them in and out is daft, it won’t work. You can educate riders (as they now do), but IMO (probably controversially) it’s a part of event organisation that you leave the area as you found it – no tape, no signs, and no litter.

I know what a massive effort it is to organise events, and in some litter-free utopia it wouldn’t be an issue, but personally I’m not even sure DQ’ing riders is the answer – I’d not go back to a race series if I was chucked out because my bottle jumped out of my cage, and I would probably do a lot to dissuade others from doing so too!

I’m not a fan of the litter nazis who are populating this thread!

Wouldn’t the “litter nazis” be the litterers, most posters seem more sympathetic to the “litter resistance”.

But it seems some are just looking for excuses for failing to take responsibility for their actions in littering the countryside.

njee20 – Member
I’m not a fan of the litter nazis who are populating this thread! Banning gels, or counting them in and out is daft, it won’t work.

I was thinking out loud really.I can see that there would be problems.

it’s a part of event organisation that you leave the area as you found it – no tape, no signs, and no litter.

So – if the cost of events has to double/treble in order to pay for the clean-up operation, would you still take part?

I’m afraid the “I’m too important to bother about litter when racing” attitude seems to be the one that’s coming across from some folk.

Speshpaul – Member

Number the signs, employ someone who can count:-)

Doesn’t really work like that- you tape/sign races as required not as planned, so, you walk the route laden with course-marking stuff and make it up as you go along. Sometimes you add more later (I’ve added and moved tape during races when marshalling when a problem’s become obvious, frinstance) Nobody’s ever going to know exactly where every marker is.

What I’m saying here- and I don’t see how it’s controversial- is that sometimes stuff happens. Yo might accidentally drop a gel wrapper, and that’s not the same as intentionally dropping one and shouldn’t be treated the same. And sometimes a race organiser might miss some signs, for whatever reason. Maybe a marshall just couldn’t be bothered but said he had, etc etc. Maybe just a mixup or failure of communication. And that’s not the same as intentionally leaving a mess. Stuff happens.

Northwind, thats pretty much what i’ve said above.
But if someone is ruuning a (hopefully) profit making business they need to follow through and get the job done. Stopping behind for a day afterwards doesn’t look like it was long enough. (the CRC guys where here for the best part of a week -ok more ground to cover, but they did a fine job.)
I can’t comment on your events as i’m yet to attend, but i’m guessing they are more along the lines of mates and helpers, which is different.

At the couple of races I have been at I have seen folk just discarding gel packets and energy bar packets. Seemed to be normal practice for them

Make it a DQ offense would sharpen peoples minds I am sure and if BC made it a condition of the racing license everyone would have to do it.

On a slight tangent, I work by a rugby pitch used by local school and the FP club. After every match the ground is littered with tape and bottles discarded after the match, is this because they see the professionals doing the same?