if a customer who owes you money, goes into liquidation, and they still have your stock in.
can you go and take the stock back from them?

not without talking to the liquidator, probably.

but turnign up with a van and getting the lot away before they notice puts you in a stronger baragaining position.

[edit] and probably also depends on your terms of business as to when ownership transfers – if it’s on payment then the stuff is still yours in any event. If it’s on invoice or delivery then may be more tricky.

A friend of mine has just been through this. They had it specifically written that the goods remained their property until paid for but it still was a complete pain. Once the liquidators are involved you’ll find yourself a long way down the pecking order for payments. I’d go with wwaswas’s suggestion (In fact I would have suggested it but as he said it first he can take the flak 🙂 )

The liquidator’s first job is to eliminate all outgoings and then determine the company’s assets so get in there quick. A…friend worked for a company that went into liquidation and he took everything he could

In every case (five in 2009) I got neither goods or payment, regardless of what was written on my invoices. And in every case they resumed business under a slightly different name albeit bigger and better 😈

sent a van up half hour ago.
just spoke to the blokes and they are loading as i type.
fingers crossed they might be a fair bit to write off some of the debt.

don’t take stuff that’s not yours, whatever the temptation to ease the debt.

all our stuff is serial numbered with a bar code scanner, and we keep duplicate lists for return/fault problems.

ROT clause would govern it, cannae remember the default position.

*is stunned no none has suggested*…

“FIST PIE” ❓

😆

So youve sent a group of staff to take back your alledged stock from a company you alledgedly supplied, having a bit of paper to say you suplied them will probably mean nothing if the liquidators who have no idea who or what company you represent, see you stealing stock from their premesis.

Until the liquidators actually prove you havent been paid it remains the companies stock and you may well be accused and charged with trespass and stealing.

What stops any of us going into a well known diy store and walking out with anything and just saying we supplied and its ours as you havent paid.

Ummm… I’d hope the employees of the firm are getting paid first and foremost.

They’ll be top of the list for the liquidators to sort out!

In every case (five in 2009) I got neither goods or payment, regardless of what was written on my invoices. And in every case they resumed business under a slightly different name albeit bigger and better

Yip. Same happened to me fella. There’s nothing quite like it for generating absolute ballistic-level fury, is there?

Ton – I’d get what you can, as quickly as you can, by whatever means possible. Otherwise you’ll have two options:

a). Just write it off and try and forget it ever existed. You’ve seen the last of it

b). Spend a fortune on legal fees pursuing your claim to get your own stuff back. Then proceed to the start of option a) having just been bent over by a solicitor too

They’ll be top of the list for the liquidators to sort out!

Only after HMRC and the banks have picked the every last scrap off the carcass, I’m afraid

project………….i will take my chances……… 😀

Ton – Everything you should need to know…

From the HMRC…

Employees are treated as preferential creditors under the Insolvency Act 1986 in respect of unpaid wages owed in the four months before the date of the insolvency order.

project – have you ever met Ton. If there were a competition for the most appropriately named forum member, he’d win, hands down. 😀

If I were a liquidator, I’d be leaving him to it. Seriously Ton – I’d get your ass round there and get your stuff as quickly as possible.

I stand corrected SY. But the bottom line is that as a creditor, you’re at the back of the queue behind staff wages, debts to the HMRC and the banks. In my (bitter) experience, there will be nowt left by that point

You’ve done exactly the right thing sending boys and van round. Regardless of the ‘legalities’ it puts you in a much stronger position and if anyone queries it they will then have to prove you shouldn’t have taken it and that takes money.

*spoken from bitter experience of having been on the wrong end of it several times 👿

ps. How’s your lads wheel doing – didn’t hear from you after I sent it?

From above, it must be absolutely gutting to think somebodies got your stuff, and not going to be paying for it, the advice i gave above was just common sence, but sometimes just go in and grab what you can before you yourself go bust.

Oh and about 4 or 5 years ago did work for a large retail chain, they only owed me about 80 quid, loads of excuses etc, so i just went in the shop at a busy time and made a fuss and again the following week, got a cheque after they told me computer was broke, staff off sick , cheque in the post etc.

A few days after i cashed their cheque they went bust, and now even years after they went bust and i got paid, the liquidators still send me about 60 sheets of photocopies, listing how much theyre paying themselves and how little they sold the stock and lorries for .

Best wishes to Ton, someday we will meet.

Binners – you’re right.

And I think Ton is doing the right thing too.
If they’ve not paid for the goods, then they’re still yours. The liquidators would have ‘fun’ trying to get you to give the goods back if you’ve already taken them back.

HMRC should bale out the staff.

IIRC if you have a ROT clause (or a Romalpa clause) AND you can ID your goods unabiguously then you’re in a good position legally.

Not sure how you’ll stand if you just go and take them back. But I’d rather be arguing with the liquidator with the goods in my possession than theirs.

I cannot for the life of me remember the default position but basically when does title to the goods pass to the buyer? on payment in which case they are yours not the liquidators or on delivery in which case legally you are at the back of the que.
check you contract.If you are sure title has not passed then I would advise you to collect your goods as soon as possible and argue from a position of strength trespass is a civil not criminal matter and a genuine belief that the goods our yours rules out theft

just checked
“The basic law relating to the sale of goods states that when goods are the subject of a contract of sale, title shall pass from the seller to the buyer at the time specified in the contract, but that if the contract does not specify a time, title shall pass upon the delivery of the goods. No doubt, therefore, in the majority of cases, title passes upon delivery”

sorry Ton

Grab it back, you will be fine as long as you don’t tell anyone you are doing it and don’t announce it on the internet…

..sorry, a bit late for that 😉

We did exactly the same as your lads Ton, customer who had gone belly up on us twice before & took us for roughly £200,000!
Third time a van load of our biggest drivers & 1 artic recovered 90% of the stock.

working for quite a large landlord Ive had to unfortuatley deal with quite a few liquidators over the last couple of years.

They only have one intrest and thats their getting their fee.

My one few pleasure in these instances is by when we can, getting wind of the situation 1st and repossing the properties before they get there and make the liquidortors jump through hoops to let them in to pillage the place.

As a large company weve been legally advised not to take goods in luie of unpaid rent even though a Lease may state that we can.

In your case unless they are waiting there with a video camera and the police when you get there to – errrhumm “asess what unpaid-for stock they have of yours on site” they wont want to spend one penny pursuing someone for stuff that disapears.

Apart form them no one else will ever get paid either.

The only upside is that customs and excise ie the tax man can no longer be classed as a preferential creditor so they get stiffed too! 🙂

Go in quickly if you can, if your worried take only whats yours when no ones looking and I’ll wager you will be fine.

Its pretty much all a liqudator does anyway!!! albiet legally

have been involved in this in past and you need to check your terms of sale include a “retention of title clause” – something like “goods remain property of seller until paid for in full” – pretty standard.

goods have to have not been altered or reworked in anyway – not sure legal term –

need to be traceable to individual invoices so depends on nature of goods and if batch numbers/ID are on product or packaging (still)- this was easy on products we sold at co’ where did this as all materials stamped/labelled and general industry practise required batch traceability thru to final components so customers usually kept stuff all labelled up – administrators are pretty helpful if you can show them how the traceability to a specific invoice works and how this can be found on the goods – they should then allow access for you to label as your property

edit – just read this bit again

crankboy – Member
just checked
“The basic law relating to the sale of goods states that when goods are the subject of a contract of sale, title shall pass from the seller to the buyer at the time specified in the contract, but that if the contract does not specify a time, title shall pass upon the delivery of the goods. No doubt, therefore, in the majority of cases, title passes upon delivery”

i remember this is why it is a good idea to have terms of sale on reverse on order acknowledgements, invoices and delivery notes – only time had a problem with an administrator on this pointed to all the paperwork that customer had saying sale was subject to suppliers terms and conditions

If you have a retention of title clause in your contract then you have the legal right (but it rarely works that way). If you managed to get it back than possession is 9/10s of the law and you have been very lucky.

If the receivers come looking for it back tell them to piss off. Unless it was paid for they have no chance.

possesion is nine tenths of the law so grab what you can. even if its not been paid for how will you get the goods or thier value once the liquidator has sold them.. by sueing the liquidated firm dream on.

Good on you Ton. What kind of stock was it? How many van loads?

gone belly up on us twice before & took us for roughly £200,000!

They went belly up twice but still got £200k credit? How?

spokebloke – Member

gone belly up on us twice before & took us for roughly £200,000!

They went belly up twice but still got £200k credit? How?

I know it sounds silly really but we have some customers who are on £400,000 credit limit that I wouldn’t trust with 50p!!

But when you work for a firm with sales last year of £97 billion, some of the stuff our sales loons agree to to get a deal closed would make your hair curl.

Oh and £200,000 is only about 3 weeks supply of goods for one of our middling customers