Firstly, I’m not trolling. This is ether a brave or stupid thing, I guess only the outcome will determine which.

at 36, as a debauched “sinner”, whom for years has felt at odds with the world, who has sought solace in drink, drugs, women & and pretty much everything else available in excess, I actually think I am taking the first tentative steps to heal the scars and become a better man.

I have, for sometime been questioning my “luck”, my “lot” and even my “life”. I did and do occasionally find it very hard to accept the existence of God, or of any “God”.

It’s easy to have belief in Science, I do, I understand the internal combustion engine, to believe that we are simply biological organisms competing for existence & reproduction is acceptable. And I don’t really understand how or why magnets work except for practical applications; I’m damn sure copper bracelets, holograms and such like are a load of old cock.

But what of faith? I find it very hard to overcome my inner sceptic, When talking about having faith I can’t help but feel stupid, the mental image of Christians happily clapping in rainbow jumpers, speaking in tongues or circumcising their infants on the eighth day and other such activity is not something I’m particularly comfortable with.

However, in times of great strain or desperation, which in my life there have been a few, I do pray, to whom I don’t know, but it does give me comfort. And that to me is the basis of a Faith.

I have often dismissed the Bible and its many churches, I cannot ignore the horror man inflicts upon man in the name of God and I also find it hard to give weight to something that is undoubtedly of the hand of man, even though it is said to contain the word of God.

So what am I getting at, well, this weekend I picked up a copy of the bible (NIV for those interested) and I am going to give it some time, thought and effort. Why? for myself.

Mock me all you like, this is the beginning of a journey into faith, I’ll let you know how I get on with it.

So far its all good, read Luke2, David & Goliath and a few others this morning, Its actually quite enjoyable as a book, anyone care to suggest any passages? the Bible I have does contain a “journey plan” which I’m following but I’m also opening it at random and reading now and then.

Oh I might also add that I was educated CoE so a lot of this is very familiar to me already, I don’t currently belong to any particular church but I may give it a go in the future.

Thats about it so far, I’m currently unsaved but who knows.

what are your thoughts on this, any suggestions?

I find it very hard to overcome my inner sceptic

Dont battle to loose this.
INHO anyone who has not considered religion and investigated it is a bit follish. The person who does this and concludes it it is real is even more foolish. Eastern philosphical ones – Buddhism /Taoism are much more interesting and “practical” than Abrhamic dogmatic ones.
The OT is abit fire and brmstone the new Testament and the parables of Jesus are very good moral stories – parable of the sower for example

only thing i’d like to suggest is to watch “the heros journey” – Wiki description:

The Hero’s Journey (film): A Biographical Portrait—This film, made shortly before his death in 1987, follows Campbell’s personal quest—a pathless journey of questioning, discovery, and ultimately of delight and joy in a life to which he said, “Yes”

Then it might inspire you to read “the hero with a thousand faces” by Joseph Cambell (as i did), or watch a 10 part series called “the power of myth” with him in….

what i’ve suggested above will not put you off anything you come to believe in as a result of your journey, but it may open up your journey and/or compliment it 🙂

used to be quite against religion and a lot of what i associated with it and thought it stood for, but what i mentioned above turned me around and changed my perception of religion and humankind for the better i’d say

good luck with your journey

I went the reverse route, started with the faith and church stuff, to quite a good standard, maybe like semi-pro believer. However life has taught me that it’s pretty much made up and ‘teaching’ changes as suits the establishment – whatever group of believers you align yourself to. And within churches have been the most manipulative, cruel, passive aggressive, hypocritical, ignorant bunch I’ve ever had the misfortune to meet. Yes there are some ‘lovely’ people, with some kindness, but many of them are damaged and your problems are a concern so they can avoid their own problems. Personally never felt so happy and content as when I left that kind of thing behind many years ago and flew solo.

Sure have some philosophy about how you’d like to live your life, but Seneca makes more sense than any religion I’ve come across.

You appear to be approaching it with an open mind although “this is the beginning of a journey into faith” appears to suggest one route. Will you be having a look at other ‘faiths’ ?

Good luck with the journey, however and I hope you find some answers, inner peace, contentment or whatever it is you hope to find.

However, in times of great strain or desperation, which in my life there have been a few, I do pray, to whom I don’t know, but it does give me comfort. And that to me is the basis of a Faith.

Sounds like you are already a Catholic. No need for the Old Testament. There is little in there which relates to New God. That covenant was put asside with the arrival of Christ and a new Covenant was made. All back so square one.

Nothing particularly wrong with religion, so long you can separate it from the wrong things that religious people do.

Will you be having a look at other ‘faiths’ ?

This is a good point, the ‘journey into faith’ is not a single track

(see what i did there?)

+1 Joseph Campbell.

Can also recommend ‘The Road Less Travelled’ by M Scott Peck as an insightful and illuminating read on the nature of ourselves, Grace and life in general. Not religious but certainly (in parts) a rumination on the spirit.

I find that the bible is split into 2 distinct sentiments..

The ones where Jesus says follow your heart, stay true to yourself, love all men.
And then there is the subtext which says ‘do what Jesus does or you’re going to hell!’

I am not sure the bile [EDIT: accidental spelling mistake which I cannot bring myself to correct!] would be the first place I would start if looking for truth.

I was raised a Catholic. I am now athiest.

so long you can separate it from the wrong things that religious people do.

I’m not entirely sure that this is possible, afterall many of the more damaging things that relious people do is done in the name of religion.

Why not have a look at what else is out there as well? The Buddhist Dhammapada is full of uplifting stuff, and quite relevant in itself imho, rather than just in the context of an organized & exclusive “religion”.

I’m a little confused by the OP.
Do you mean you want to belive in a God and are looking at Christianity, you belive in Christianity and their God and are looking further into it or you are looking some answers and have started with Christianity?

Oh yeah, watch Zeitgeist the movie as well, though only the first third in respect of religious matters.

Then become a sun worshipper.

as torm may be also typing whilst i write this and end up with us both posting the same thing…. the joseph cambell stuff will definitely keep your mind open enough to consider other faiths or none in an all embracing type way… hard to describe.

In my work I visit a lot of families at home, and spend a few hours with them. Living in the West Midlands a lot of the families I visit are Sikh, Muslim, Hindu, Jew and Buddhist, with a few Jains and Zoroastrians in the mix too. The occassional Christian, but they never seem to pronounce their faith as much.

What I have noticed is that they are all fundamentally the same. Their religions are mostly based around respect for authority, do unto others as you would be done to, respect for each other, follow the outward and inward disciplines and badges of your faith. Then there is the health & safety bit – don’t eat pork, don’t marry your sister.

Then last of all seems to be the “what happens when you die bit”, which is where it all goes a bit wooly in my opinion, but there again, I’m of the opinion that when you die the lights go off.

It seems to me that all of the eastern faiths have a figure that people young and old can look to to give a moral and spiritual lead.

And we’ve got that gormless bloke with a straggly beard Rowan Atkinson or some such.

Much lapsed catholic here. I still have ‘faith’, whatever that means, but am more than able to see the way that some people manipulate organised religion to make it fit their version of the truth or use it for their own ends. I hope this thread doesnt turn into another excuse to belittle people, and sincerely hope, mrnutt, you find some answers or comfort on your journey. Just remember, you dont need permission from anyone to be a ‘good person’.

No one has mentioned “Life of Brian” ?!?

I’ll certainly look out the Joseph Campbell stuff, cheers for that folks.

Having been schooled CoE although my family is non religious I guess my ideas of Faith were sown then. I’m not sure on Catholicism as I struggle with the imagery.

I was pretty keen on Buddhism in my teens but found I was more like Jack Kerouac than the Dali Llama!

Oh and I also enjoyed the Wickerman but I’m rubbish at basket weaving!

Back-slidden Christian here,I am really enjoying this,thus far, reasonable thread.

I’m not entirely sure that this is possible, afterall many of the more damaging things that relious people do is done in the name of religion

Yeah, but i don’t think that’s the religion, it’s people using religion as an excuse. probably

Just ride your bike more and go on a mountain bike skills course. Getting better at riding will make you feel loads better about life, the universes and everything.

Nailing a sweet bit of singletrack in the countryside with great views and great friends is way better than chasing fictional beliefs.

It is real and you can actually do it, you dont have to pretend.

Before this Thread turns into the usual STW religion bashing…

I’d suggest to read John then follow that up with Acts…

Then if your still interested in Christianity look for an Alpha course in your local area (its a non pressured course to give as many annoying questions as possible with the choice to leave it or follow it up).

On my MSc I did a three week module called “Where science meets spirit”. There is a fabulous book called Pythagoras’ Trousers, and this presents the way in which scientists have, and still do, see physics as the route to discovering —. I do not personally enjoy the word “god” since it comes loaded with so much baggage, and for me, limitations. I prefer the word Tao – and built into this definition of Tao is this “That which is the Tao is not the Tao” i.e. you simply can not use words to describe the ineffable.

The thing for me is that while many physicists are searching for “fundamental particles” many other physicists wonder if there is a deeper reality underlying the one we are able to access via our senses.

For me, I have taken a shamanic path, and had incredible vistas of consciousness open up to me and experienced radically quantitatively different states of consciousness to our normal ones in waking and sleeping life.

But you go for it, there is so much to explore out there. If you are looking for observations, my main one would be why limit yourself to the Bible when you have Tao, Buddhism, Hinduism, Native American spirituality, shamanism, and all sorts of ways which for me all have a piece of the puzzle.

All the best

You’re “brave” posting that on here! Some of the atheists here are very vitriolic. I’m pretty chilled but they even manage to upset me! By all means email me for a private chat.

BTW. good on you for trying to improve yourself, however you choose to do it

I would request that this thread does not turn into the usual bickering to be honest, by all means post up your thoughts, suggestions & beliefs but do try and lay off on the bickering please folks, there’s a good lot eh?

And if you’re an atheist, fair enough, I’d be interested to know what you do when you simply can’t MTFU?

Nailing a sweet bit of singletrack

Yes but who created it, if anyone?
Why is it there?
Is there a reason or purpose to me riding it?
Will there be singletrack in heaven?
Is there a heaven?
Is it all uphill fire-road on a s/s in hell?
Is there a hell?
etcetcetcetc.

It is not necessarily chasing a ‘belief’ more a a realisation or ‘coming to terms’ with being at peace/happy or whatever it is that you want for yourself or others. How that happens, if it ever does is entirely with the individual concerned.

Sikh, Muslim, Hindu, Jew and Buddhist, with a few Jains

Reminded of Donovan
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC9pc4U40sI&t=0m28s[/video]

you simply can not use words to describe the ineffable

this has echoes of the muslim belief that you cannot attribute to him (God) characteristics in human language.

any introspection and re-evaluation of our selves is a good thing. Being a bit more consious of our actions is surly a good thing. ‘Good’ faith imo answers all of this, teaches us to live better and not focus on tickets to heaven too much. there are lots of non religious, some might say ‘new age’ thinkers out there that are worth a look. the two that spring to mind are Ekhart Tole (sp?) ‘the power of now’, and Ram Das (pre dr richard alpert).
faith is such a personal thing with which i think it is our duty to challenge and ask difficult questions.
i lived as a monk for several years in india (sort of family tradition/take time out to suss your self out a bit) and saw and experienced things which totally blew my mind/conceptions, plus i had trustworthy people to guide me when i needed it. but that was my journey, and preaching doesn’t sit comfortably with me. i like to look to those who show by example.
good luck on yours.

if you’re an atheist, fair enough, I’d be interested to know what you do when you simply can’t MTFU?

FTFU – friend the F up.

if you lead a life in which you make an effort to be nice to those around you, go out of your way to support the people you love (not forgetting to improve yourself through reflection and making a concerted effort to better yourself) then friends tend to come to the rescue when you need them most.

as much as the militant/closed minded athiests give athiests a bad name… there are some of us who are as nice to others as religious people try to be 🙂

@ Charlie

Well I am hoping perceive my comments as not critical or lowering the tone. But there is a whole philosophy based on the study of meaning. Words for me are so limited in their ability to represent reality, and yet many people who have a religious book do not seem to have the same problems with interpretation of their books as I do.

That is why I prefer active practicies such as yoga, meditation, shamanic journeying etc, which are based on your own experience as opposed to having someone tell you in words how it is.

The most enlightened person I ever met, and received darshan from, Mother Meera, never spoke. Says it all really.

On the shamanic path, you go through the shattering of your ego, which is one of the most terrifying things ever, but it really tells you so much about how you construct your own world. It is why I am such a fan of the late David Bohm who created a physical framework of unbroken wholeness, rather than a particle view of reality.

And if you’re an atheist, fair enough, I’d be interested to know what you do when you simply can’t MTFU?

I’m not sure what you mean here but I assume that you are asking what happens when it all gets too much? Well have a good cry, talk to family and friend that sort of thing. Speaking to, what I consider, a non existant deity seems odd from an athiest perspective.

[Internet clogs under weight of millions of simultaneous report-post hits]

I thought it was going to be along the lines of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance but was bitterly dissapointed.

The most enlightened person I ever met, and received darshan from, Mother Meera, never spoke. Says it all really.

Simon – that is genius 😉

Whoops – but I know what I meant even if I can’t say it 😳

spiritual life is a bit like ridged single speeding; it will break you at first, and on paper makes no sense at all. but when it comes together its simple, relies on a different way of thinking, physical/environmental awareness is a must, the humbleness to walk now and again and reliance on the material world is minimum.
i do have a beard, long hair, live in a yogurt weaving community and ride a 29er btw.

I’d be interested to know what you do when you simply can’t MTFU?

Atheist here. Some things take time to come to terms with but I find that accepting that random things happen to people and that these are not a part of a plan or punishment means that they are easier to cope with and makes accepting them and moving on easier. Is acceptance and moving on mtfu’ing? Not sure, but I suspect it might be.

I suppose that death is high in the list of difficult to cope with events but ultimately I know that everyone I love will die, some will live long happy fulfilled lives others may die an untimely and painful deaths. Equally, either could happen to me. To me it’s just dumb luck and I can accept that. The idea that such events could be part of a divine plan would make them harder to deal with as it raises the question of why.

Nailing a sweet bit of singletrack

Yes but who created it, if anyone?

Badgers or deer 😉

I think it’s important to dissociate faith and religion.

The former is the core belief that there is more than you see before you.

The latter is a set of rules designed to “explain” your faith.

I respect the former, and have little time for the latter. Make sure you explore as much of the former as possible, before settling (if at all) on whichever of the latter you prefer.

(I have no faith, and certainly no relgious conviction.)

And if you’re an atheist, fair enough, I’d be interested to know what you do when you simply can’t MTFU?

Talk to actual people? Go for a bike ride? And in the words of Billy Pilgrim… ‘So it goes…’