‘Not for profit’ doesn’t mean that people’s pockets don’t get lined.

+1

The USA is just a really poor example – and nobody would seriously use it as a example on which to base healthcare reform, unless you had financial interest in selling healthcare services or insurance.

There are plenty of examples of mixed economy public/private insurance/provision in developed countries that make for a much better debate. I still favour universal public insurance (ie tax funded) and public provision for all but peripheral services and I’m happy to have that discussion with anyone – but offering the US as an example is making the argument too easy…

I had ultrasound in a little NHS specialist unit – so not in hospital or doctor’s surgery.

List of MPs taking cash from healthcare companies…..

1. David Cameron – Prime Minister
Handed a peerage to nursing and care home tycoon Dolar Popat, who has given the Tories more than £200,000 in donations.

2. Andrew Lansley – Former Health Secretary & architect of privatisation
Received a £21,000 donation in Nov 2009 from John Nash, the former chairman of Care UK.

3. Harriet Baldwin – Tory whip
Former executive at JP Morgan, a major player in private healthcare.

4. Greg Barker – former Energy Minister
Held shares in Quester VCT 5 plc ,a venture capital firm with multiple investments in healthcare companies.

5. Henry Bellingham
Former director of Lansdowne Advisory Ltd, which has shares in private healthcare company Circle.

6. Jake Berry
Has registered interests in legal firm Squire Patton Boggs, which workd with multiple NHS trusts on PFI and PPP programs.

7. Graham Brady
Former advisor to PA Consulting, a management consultancy company which has worked with the NHS’s new Clinical Commissioning Groups.

8. Simon Burns – former Health Minister
Attended an oncology conference paid for by Aventis Pharma – a five-day trip to the US funded by a leading drug firm.

9. Nick de Bois
Was the majority shareholder in Rapier Design Group, an events management company heavily involved with the private medical and pharmaceutical industries.

10. Steve Brine
Received almost £15,000 in donations from James Lupton, the chairman of investment bankers, Greenhill Europe which has a global network of corporate relationships in the healthcare sector.

11. Aidan Burley
Received six bottles of wine from Hitachi consultants for a speech in 2011. Hitachi Consulting UK built an online ‘portal’ for NHS commissioners to help them monitor performance.

12. Damian Collins
Spent almost a decade working for marketing agency M&C Saatchi, whose clients include PPP healthcare, AXA insurance, Astrazeneca, Pfizer and Merck

13. David Davis – former shadow home secretary
Received a payment of £4,250 for a six-hour speaking engagement for private health insurance company Aviva.

14. Jonathan Djanogly
Received £1,900 from Huntleigh Healthcare Ltd, which manufactures medical and orthopaedic equipment and instruments.

15. Richard Drax
Received £14,000 in a series of donations from Derek Luckhurst, chief executive and owner of care home group Agincare.

16. Iain Duncan-Smith – Work and Pensions Secretary
Has shares in hygiene technology company Byotrol plc, which sells products to the NHS.

17. Philip Dunne
Was a non-executive director for investment firm Baronsmead VCT 4 plc, which had multiple investments in private healthcare companies.

18. Michael Fallon – Defence Secretary
Former director of Attendo AB, – a Swedish private health company.

19. Mark Field
Was a board advisor to Ellwood and Atfield; a recruitment firm which recruit for NHS positions and private healthcare.

20. Liam Fox – former Defence Secretary
Received £5,000 from investment company IPGL Ltd, who purchased healthcare pharma company Cyprotex.

21. George Freeman
Has shares in Hill House Assets Ltd, formally private health firm 4D Biomedical Ltd.

22. Mike Freer
Provided marketing advice to Care Matters, a financial planning company for care homes.

23. Richard Fuller
Worked for L.E.K consulting, which has six ‘partners’ in European healthcare.

24. Richard Graham
Received £3,000 from asset manager Crispin Odey, a major investor in Circle.

25. William Hague – Leader of the Commons
Received a £20,000 donation from MMC Ventures, which parts owns The Practice plc which runs 60 GP surgeries.

26. Philip Hammond – Foreign Secretary
Beneficiary of a trust which owns a controlling interest in healthcare and nursing home developer Castlemead Ltd.

27. Mark Harper
Received £5,000 from asset manager Crispin Odey, a major investor in Circle.

28. Nick Herbert
Received £15,000 in donations from Caroline Nash, wife of former Care UK chairman John Nash.

29. Jeremy Hunt – Health Secretary
Received £32,920 from hedge fund baron Andrew Law, a major investor in healthcare firms.

30. Margot James
Had a key role at marketing giant WPP Group, which had a long list of healthcare clients.

31. Sajid Javid – Culture Secretary
Received £11,000 from Moundsley Healthcare Ltd last year.

32. Jo Johnson – Downing Street policy adviser
Received £6,000 from asset manager Crispin Odey, a major investor in Circle.

33. Kwarsi Kwateng
Worked as an analyst for for Crispin Odey’s hedge fund Odey Asset Management.

34. Mark Lancaster
Former adviser to property venture capital firm Company Palmer Capital Partners Ltd, a funder of Danescroft Commercial Developments, which has worked in the healthcare sector.

35. Dr Phillip Lee
Has worked as a freelance or Medical Solutions Ltd, which provided medical cover for events.

36. Oliver Letwin – former shadow chancellor
Was a non-executive director of N.M. Rothschild Corporate Finance Ltd, which invests heavily in healthcare.

37. Peter Lilley
Non-Executive director of management software firm Idox plc, which provides services to the NHS Health Libraries Group and NHS Education for Scotland.

38. Tim Loughton
Received £350 for training sessions with Cumberlege Connections, a political networking firm that works “extensively” with the pharmaceutical industry.

39. Mary Macleod
Was a senior executive at Andersen Consulting/Accenture, which has profited from big PFI deals.

40. Francis Maude – Cabinet Office Secretary
Was a director of PR firm Huntsworth plc, which was part of lobbying group Healthcare Communications Association.

41. Maria Miller – former Culture Secretary
Former director of Grey’s Advertising Ltd, an advertising and brand company which worked extensively with clients in the healthcare sector.

42. Andrew Mitchell – former International Development Secretary
Was a strategy adviser to global management firm Accenture, which has worked extensively with private healthcare companies and the NHS.

43. Penny Mordaunt – Communities Minister
Worked for lobbying firm Hanover, where she had a range of healthcare clients.

44. Brooks Newmark – former Charities Minister
Partner in the Allele Fund, which invests in healthcare startups.

45. Jesse Norman
Received £5,000 from asset manager Crispin Odey, a major investor in Circle.

46. Stephen O’Brien
Received payments totalling £40,000 from Julian Schild, whose family made £184million in 2006 by selling hospital bed-makers Huntleigh Technology.

47. George Osborne – Chancellor
Received donation through Conservative Campaign Headquarters from Julian Schild – see above.

48. Priti Patel – Treasury Minister
Worked for lobbying firm Weber Shandwick, which does PR for big healthcare and pharmaceutical firms.

49. John Redwood – former Cabinet Minister
Advised the private equity company which runs Pharmacy2u, the UK’s largest dedicated internet and mail order pharmacy.

50. Jacob Rees-Mogg
Partner of Somerset Capital Management LLP, which has healthcare investor Redwood Emerging Markets Dividend Income Fund as a client.

Load of people in the US, even fully employed, have no health insurance

And when you do have it, it’s limited to a certain sum. And prenatal care and childbirth is not usually included.

it’s major failings are political interference, inability of clinicians to see past their own noses, annual budgets, dead-mans-shoe recruitment/promotion policies and GP’s feathering their nests.

+ 1

Not surprised at kimbers post either.

Kimbers you should add those MPs who have visited their GPs, that would be equally helpful.

Knowing (to an extent) some of those listed, the links are tenuous at best in many cases. People worked at JP Morgan * or Odey or Landsdowne. Knock me down. Privatisation Pirates the lot of them.

* given bLair’s salary at JPM, does that mean he is the most guilty of them all. Ba*****! 😉

This comes highly recommended for those who want a serious read on the issue: http://www.dannydorling.org/books/unequalhealth/

One of the problem’s with OP’s graph (plus those like it on gapminder) and the debate about the US is scale. Averaging for an entire country is meaningless in the context of healthcare provision where we find massive differences in life expectancy from one part of a city to another: http://life.mappinglondon.co.uk

And prenatal care and childbirth is not usually included.

That really shocked me – $20k I was told to have a child 😯

But I do agree with the post above, the US is an awful example. The question really should be how it compares with say France or Germany. FWIW, having dealt with one of those for a relative, I wouldn’t say that it was great – the amount of bureaucracy is incredible when you’re used to going to an NHS doctor and then a specialist as necessary without having to fill in forms.

As an aside my wife was doing clinical experience last week using ultrasound as a diagnostic tool for non pregnancy issues. It is really cheap to do and quick non invasive and risk free. The alternative ways of seeing inside the body are not. She asked why there is not much American literature on such a useful procedure , the reason they don’t do it in America because you can bill more for the alternatives.

In any profit driven health care there will be a risk that the prime function will be profit making not service delivery.

I don’t think we should be reducing healthcare to statistics and the bottom line.

For me it is more about the sort of society I want to live in. That is a society that will gives universal healthcare free at the point of use to its members and where the services are provided by publicly owned or non profit organisations.

I think that’s fair comment in some ways but the numbers do have to be discussed. Healthcare costs are going up (as we live longer and can cure more health issues but often with more expensive drugs/treatments) and it needs to be funded in some way (because oft touted efficiency savings will never amount to anything significant).

I would happily pay more tax (within reason) to ensure a continued free at poi service but many wouldn’t. Without discussing the costs or what will be delivered, it’ll never happen because so many are misinformed about how relatively well the NHS does in terms of costs compared to other countries.